Air Scotland (Merged)

[Heffer]

Can anyone confirm when the first of two Air Scotland Tristars will enter revenue service?

Anyword on whether they will be -250 or -500, where theyre coming from and who will provide maintenance?

[GoEDI]

Can anyone confirm when the first of two Air Scotland Tristars will enter revenue service?

LOL, err, never. ;)

[goldeneye]

Can anyone confirm when the first of two Air Scotland Tristars will enter revenue service?

These plans have been shelved for now, and cant really see it happening anytime soon, pity really.

[Carnage Matey!]

Air Scotland? You mean that Greek airline?

[EK-LHR-LGW-GLA-MAN-B]

"Air Scotland? You mean that Greek airline?"

You know exactly what he means no need to try and confuse people and get all technical. He ment Air Scotland hence why he said Air Scotland, yes Air Scotland are a traiding name of Greece Airways but you still knew exactly what he was talking about.

[Mr R Sole]

Or maybe it was a genuine question???!!!!

[james170969]

Does anyone know why check in takes such a long time with Air Scotland? I flew to Malaga from Glasgow recently and there were thirty people in front of me yet it took one hour to get to the front of the queue. At Malaga it was even worse - one hour and fifteen minutes! A couple of friends of mine have experienced exactly the same with Air Scotland. I've flown with Easyjet and Ryanair loads of times and never experienced this. There is nothing more frustrating and off putting than standing in a check in queue for what seems to be forever!!

[bmibaby.com]

Long queues at check-in can obviously be for a wide number of reasons. There could have been individual issues with the passengers ahead of you in the queue, the agent on the check-in counter may have been new or a trainee, or in my personal experience the reason for long queues tends to be when you have to operate a manual (i.e. without computers) check-in.

I can see why Air Scotland will not be entering the Tristars into service. They are aging aircraft, and with the current price of fuel would be extremely uneconomic. Competition also is high on trans-Atlantic flights at the moment, especially with the state of the American airline industry.

[james170969]

Hi bmibaby, thanks for your reply. I could overlook one long slow check in queue but it was both at Glasgow and Malaga airports that I had this problem. I also know several friends who have had the same experience with Air Scotland.
I take it that you workfor bmibaby. Just out of curiousity, are there any plans for expansion north of the border at Glasgow, Prestwick or Edinburgh?

[nivsy]

Certainly at Malaga Air Scotland tend to pay for only 2 check in desks to be opened....(like a number of airlines) from the handling agents. They are opened well in advange of flight - however as a good number of pax are coached to the airport they all arrive at the same time. Further, if the desks are being used for a late running previous flight etc it can be caotic. However that said and done i personally see no difference to 757 check ins for Thomas Cook, Britannia etc....and some of the q's for BHX, MAN and LGW are really just as bad. As far as Glasgow is concerned - what i remember of my home town airport (in the past) when i visit 3 or 4 times a year - there is alwayas q's at peak times - including BA.

Nivsy

[Eff Oh]

Tristars not coming (thank God!) However we are awaiting a B767-200 and also maybe another type. When (if) these will arrive is anyones guess! I wouldn't expect to see them much before next summer.
Eff Oh
PS Carnage Matey!
Air Scotland is a Scottish company. Greece Airways is a Greek company operating to JAR based in Scotland. Both are owned and run from Scotland. So, as they are based in Scotland, owned by Scots (except one) and run in Scotland. I'd say it was pretty much Scottish. Only Ops in Greece (why I have NO idea!)

[codpiece face]

They have the company engineering department in Greece as well, you have failed to mention the other type Mr O, i heard they where after md82's.

[HOMER SIMPSONS LOVECHILD]

Eff Oh, they may have saltires and thistles all over them and serve Irn Bru with deep fried mars bar breakfasts but they are most definately not Scottish.They are a "flag of convenience"operator whatever way you look at it .That is a very slippery slope for this industry.If they are serious about being "Scotland's low cost airline" they need to get on the G register and stop this deception.What exactly are they afraid of?.As it stands, their commitment to a long term future is only as strong as the bosses coranary arteries.I wish them(and him!) a succesful future but they need to ditch the dodgy elements of the operation if they want proffessional credability.

[air_scotia]

ahh once again another one jumps on the band wagon of knowing all about air-scotland. perhaps the spawn of mr simpson should maybe check out his sources. then come back and jump on his high horse

[GEENY]

Which authority issued the AOC (and OL)? This is the home of the airline.

[HOMER SIMPSONS LOVECHILD]

My sources?. That will be my own mince pies!.Last time I looked on the apron at gla the Air Scotland 757 had a Greek registration on it.Perhaps you can explain to me how this is not being used as a flag of convenience since they claim to be "Scotlands low cost carrier"
If you think I'm on a high horse can i just say three words to you.."British Merchant Navy".Anyone remember that?
As for the boss's dodgy ticker, well maybe he faked that heart attack on the tv prog to appear more interesting.I wish him no harm- unlike some others in the loco sphere.:rolleyes:

[EK-LHR-LGW-GLA-MAN-B]

FR's aircraft are all Irish registerd but most of there flights operate from STN and other non Irish airports so what exaclt is you point?

[XSBaggage]

bmibaby.com,

Its normally manual check in which is faster (eg the example of FR given in James' post) but maybe Air Scotland have a more cumbersome process. Regardless I agree with him, hate standing in line.

XSB

[Eff Oh]

EK you beat me to it!
I was just about to mention Ryanair. See also Air Atlanta (TF reg) Globespan when they started were TF reg and now have some Czech reg etc etc. Does the country of registration really matter? After all these days we are JAR complient, isn't that the whole point of our Euro licences and laws? Air Scotland is a Scottish company registered in Scotland end of story. You can look it up on the companies house web site if you like. I think you need to chunk up a bit and stop getting ground down in the nitty gritty. What is it that you choose to find annoying about this whole thing? Is it because the airline is Scottish, is it the Greek involvement, is it because the airline is still around when most wrote it off, what is it?
Yeah Codpiece you're right they were looking at 2 MD82s but I believe they were beaten to them, so that's why I didn't mention a type as I dodn't know what they are after now. You are more likely to find out than me!! :)

[HOMER SIMPSONS LOVECHILD]

Oh dear! So now Ryanair,AAI,Globespan et al are the benchmark for UK operators.How times change.Anyone want fries with that?
At least Globespan are setting up a uk aoc and flying a few G reg frames around.But don't worry effo they'll still manage to get a few exotic flags/crew onto the ramp this year.Wayhay for the global economy.
My "problem" effo, is the nitty gritty to which you refer.Minor things like a proper and accountable local system of flight ops inspection.Decent contracts and working conditions for crews,maintaining our proud profession above the level of transient Albanian berry pickers(no offense to those poor workers),not watching our industry go the way of the afformentioned Merchant Navy(where your old man made a proud living if I remember correctly FO,ask him if he thinks the flag makes no difference)
So it's not because they are "Scottish",let's clear that one up.Who knows ,maybe I've got a few Jock genes myself.
Air Scotland are a relatively new start up with great ambition and an enthusiastic and eager workforce.Hell they are even registered with Co House in Edinburgh! There is a market for their product.I repeat my question to you FO,what are they afraid of by puting the frames on the G register and establishing a legitimate and respectable local AOC.Whether it's true or not, as long as you operate under "Greece Airways" you will be viewed with suspicion and tainted with eau de Mickey Mouse.Ask the Monarch Engineers at Gla for an honest opinion and report back please.
It saddens me to see fellow professionals defend these practices which drive down the base line of our operating expectations.I accept everyone has a living to make but when the ramp at Gla/Lgw/Lhr is lined with EI and TF hulls and league of nations crews on taxi drivers conditions I hope all the Quislings can proudly say"I played my part in the name of free trade"

[codpiece face]

What would the bond money to the caa/atol equate to if the aircraft was operated on the brit register?, i dont actually know the answer but i am sure one of you will enlighten us.

[Eff Oh]

I don't run the company, so what makes you think I would know why they chose the Greek register? I just fly them (or rather it) mate! Not sure where you got the merchant navy bit, but it wasn't me. My old man was a pro footballer (club and country) therefore his knowledge of the navy would be somewhat limited! As for the flag making no difference, it doesn't matter how nationalistic you are it's a sad fact we are all in Europe now. As for " Minor things like a proper and accountable local system of flight ops inspection." We are inspected not only by the Hellenic CAA but by the UK and French CAAs. We are inspected more by the Greek CAA than the UK ever inspected any UK airline I worked for. We have, in my opinion, the best engineering cover in GLA. The Monarch guys are truly excellent and do a great job. (Thanks Codpiece.) :) Also, how do you know what my contract contains? As for "league of nations crews" well we have a 50/50 split of SCOTTISH (not British) and Greek. I think you will find that GSM (not meaning to pick on them, but they are the best comparison) have many nations on the flight deck! Homer if you want more information on anything send me a PM with your number and I'd be delighted to give you a call.
Eff Oh

PS. Just had a thought you didn't just work for us did you? As that may answer many of my questions. I think I know who you are, I may be wrong though.

[air_scotia]

had the same thought f.0
could it be........................the one and only.........................?

[codpiece face]

I can confirm the hellenic caa are very thorough so to speak.

[EK-LHR-LGW-GLA-MAN-B]

Why the hell does it matter what country the a/c is registerd in? The pax wont know and couldnt care less. All the pax want is a good on-board service, low prices and to get to where they want to go and that is what you get with Air Scotland. It pisses me of why the media here in Scotland seem to pick on Air Scotland as anytime they have a delay its all over the papers but any other airline has a delay and you dont hear about it and now it seems that now a few people have jumped on the band wagon and slag off GRE and anytime. Who in here that has said something bad about Air Scotland has actuly flown with them? I very much doubt any of them have.

[HOMER SIMPSONS LOVECHILD]

Effo,appologies for the incorect ident.Great thing anonomous user names,we've both got it wrong!
Still think though dost protest too much though.:ok:

[codpiece face]

Is it true the airline has new owners?

[Eff Oh]

Not that I am aware of Codpiece. Not heard that one, and I'd doubt it very much. :confused:
EffOh

[Skipness One Echo]

Having had business dealings with Air Scotland, they are "interesting" to say the least. I was dealing with one of their directors who was about 12 and a Scots / Iraqi. I couldn't help but think of Arthur Dailey.........
Still anyone who has a business plan that involves flying TriStars to Baghdad - why would I not feel safe in their hands???

:confused:

[EK-LHR-LGW-GLA-MAN-B]

Apparently the new owner is from Spain.

[Heffer]

I heard today that Air Scotland will suspend all operations between 15Nov and 01Dec whilst they undertake a C check (level unknown) on their one aircraft.

A very simplistic approach to running an airline! Can anyone confirm?

[codpiece face]

Yes the aircraft is off for its annual holiday, to the west coast of Ireland.

[malagajohn]

Does anyone have more info on the new owners? - apparently they are based in Spain but no one is sure of the identity

Yesterdays EDI - AGP was severely delayed as BP refused to refuel as the previous owners still had not paid their outstanding debts

Accordingto a mate on the flight the airport guaranteed the debt but by then the crew were out of hours

The inbound AGP-GLA was delayed as a result

[Oshkosh George]

proffessional credability

You mean ,like yours!!!!!!!!!!!??????

[LTNman]

I hear that Air Scotland might have a few money problems. One of their aircraft was stuck at EDI for 10 hours when BP refused to refuel them due to a large outstanding bill. BP also refused to refuel the aircraft using a company credit card.

[GoEDI]

The inbound AGP-GLA was delayed as a result

As well as the outbound GLA-ATH flight, and probably every other flight over this busy holiday weekend, way to go Air Scotland...:rolleyes:

[charterguy]

We were approached the other day by a firm of accountants offering a Scottish airline for sale. We enquired to find out who it was, and hey presto were called back by someone from Air Scotland.

Their sales documentation said that their turnover was £10m and that they carried 200,000 pax. £50 per pax doesn't make me want to pester my bank manager.

If the company had a UK AOC, I might be of interest. But as we all know they have a Greek AOC !!

Sorry state of affairs.

CG

[LTNman]

Does anyone have more info on the new owners?

According to the Scotsman it is Cupar Consultants

[qwertyuiop]

The Daily Record are saying that Air Scotland were grounded in Spain last night due to unpaid fuel bills. Apparantley the pax had a wip round!!!

[EK-LHR-LGW-GLA-MAN-B]

"Apparantley the pax had a wip round!!!"

As usual the press in Scotland want Air Scotland finnished and they are just talking sh*t now with that wip around, funniest thing the Daily Ranger sorry daily record have came out with yet this year. If you know anything about aviation then you know that wip round never happen.......i really am sick of the press in Scotland slotering Air Scotland and it always seems to be the daily record, that news paper that said Glasgow has over 40 runways says it all really.

[air_scotia]

cheers ek.

no1 thought anything of gsm's 15 hr delay that was ongoing for 3 days last week.

once again for some reason evey1 takes the opportunity to stick the f**king knife in.

[Flightrider]

EK, actually not true. Whilst I have no idea what happened in this particular instance, whip-rounds have taken place before. I was involved in one at a previous airline when we were stuck downroute and handling agent would not accept any credit cards or a guarantee of payment; and I know of at least one other. As I say, I do not know if this happened with Air Scotland, but it certainly isn't the case that whip-rounds never happen.

[LTNman]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=16257015%26method=full%26siteid=66633%26headline =stranded%2dscots%2doffer%2dto%2dpay%2dairline%2dfuel%2dbill-name_page.html

DESPERATE passengers stranded in Spain offered to pay a crisis-hit airline's fuel bill in a bid to get home.

Hundreds of holidaymakers abandoned at Alicante Airport were also left without their luggage after troubled Air Scotland failed to pay baggage handling charges.

And when the families forced to camp out in the departure lounge tried to ring the airline's Glasgow office, staff put the phone down on them.

Air Scotland flights out of the Spanish airport were grounded after fuel bills were left unpaid when the airline's owner, Iraqi-born Dhao Al-Ani, sold his shares in the firm.

The Record told on Saturday howa flight from Malaga to Edinburgh could only leave after staff paid the bills owed. Another flight from Palmawas also grounded The holidaymakers in Alicante were due to leave at 11pm on Saturday but boarded the plane at 3pm yesterday.

The delay's knock-on effects meant another 200 passengers were delayed at Malaga last night with no news on when they were going to leave.

[GoEDI]

It's beyond a joke now, they should just give up to save thousands of passengers anymore grief.:*

[EK-LHR-LGW-GLA-MAN-B]

"It's beyond a joke now, they should just give up to save thousands of passengers anymore grief."

ermmm no a dont think so:rolleyes:

[GoEDI]

ermmm no a dont think so

Well they aleady have caused what must be somewhere in the region of 1000-1500 pax plenty of grief, and with no sign of them getting themselves into gear it's going to continue and that number will get higher and higher, as will the odds of them going bust. The 'airline' is shutting down for maintenance anyway, another great idea, they might aswell quietly slip away during that time. :E

[malagajohn]

According to tonight's Evening Times , the new owners are Barcelona based H TOP HOTELS - this chain operate a number of 3 + 4 star properties on the Costa Brava

Nothing in the Spanish press yet

[jettesen]

Has Air Scotland come to the come to the end of the line?? Hundreds of pax stranded in Glasgow and europe. Big debts in fuel bills etc. any info?

[TimS]

From their website .....................

URGENT NOTICE


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHECK YOUR FLIGHT TIMES !!!!!!! (16-October-2005)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please note that all passengers travelling between Monday 17th October and Friday 21st October should contact our Customer Services Team on 0044 141 222 2363 to confirm their flight times.

[mary_hinge]

Not quite stranded, but it would seem like it if you are waiting 17 hours!


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4350498.stm

[jmc757]

From BAA.co.uk:

05:40 GRE2734 MALAGA EXPECTED 2116
16:10 GRE2114 ATHENS (no expected!)

Ouch! One of the Evening Times articles mentiones a second aircraft. Anyone know if this is true, they're still very far behind and judging by the message on their website expect to be until Saturday!

[mary_hinge]

A bit dramatic but....

http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=16253984&method=full&siteid=64736&headline=tourists--17hr-airport-hell--name_page.html

TOURISTS' 17HR AIRPORT HELL
By David Taylor
HUNDREDS of Scots tourists were stranded for 17 hours in Palma yesterday after Spanish authorities impounded their crisis-hit plane.

Tempers flared after Air Scotland failed to buy fuel for one craft then had another impounded.

Airport officials were forced to call in armed police to calm the furious crowd.

The holidaymakers' ordeal only ended when the Palma Airport Authority bailed out the airline.

Irene Guild, of Kinghorn, Fife, who was on honeymoon with husband David, said: "There was going to be a riot. The police all had guns - it was really scary."

The fiasco started two days ago, when Air Scotland's credit cards were refused as they tried to buy fuel.

[smith]

Seems the major shareholder a Scots Iraqi, sold out to a Spanish company leaving behind unpaid fuel bills and baggage handling charges. The planes are operatedby Greece Airways. Don't know if the company are going ( . )( . )'s up or what.

[African Tech Rep]

Come On Guys

Air Scotland is British Company – but it’s NOT an airline – it’s just a Trading Company – the airline is Greek.
They say that on their web site
"Who Is Air Scotland
Air Scotland is the trading style of Greece Airways.
Flights sold by Air Scotland are operated by Greece Airways under its current European licenses.
Who is Greece Airways
Based in Athens, Greece Airways was established as a Greek commercial airline with full operating and commercial licenses.
Greece Airways holds a European AOC, which is issued to it by the Civil Aviation Authority of the Hellenic Republic (Greece), a member country of the European Union (EU). Greece Airways is therefore fully licensed to operate in all member countries of the EU."
The definition of an airline’s country is the is easy – who issued the AOC – issued by UKCAA=UK airline, issued by DGAC=French airline etc.

Don’t get to exited about “JAR Compliance” it and EASA are good plans going wrong in some respects – you try transferring a plane between two JAR Authorities and you’ll find they often “interpret” the JARS slightly differently.
I’ve been involved with planes in and out of Greece and they had some “interpretations” that were interesting to say the least – but I think the French win the prize when it comes to “interpretation” of the regs and the UK is still the most “thorough” authority.
It does matter where the planes are Registered – chose right can save lots of headaches.

Edited to say – this was actually in reply to the discussion that was far earlier in the thread – guess it’s position now is the result of the merge

[duchy]

Looks as if things are going from bad to worse, I pity the poor passengers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4353760.stm

[rumair999]

does not look good for these guys , anyone know what is happening to the ALC pax now ?

[jmc757]

does not look good for these guys , anyone know what is happening to the ALC pax now ?

The Glasgow Airport website shows it as being "Gate Open", but has done all day so my guess is they're still at GLA. AENA say estimated at 23:15, so with flying time and the hours difference I reckon thats an estimated 7.30pm departure.

However BAA still don't have an arrival time for this:

05:25 GRE2118 PALMA

Anyone actually know where the Air Scotland aircraft is now, and if they have managed to secure any other aircraft after this mornings fiasco? Perhaps the real question is do Air Scotland even know?!

[EK-LHR-LGW-GLA-MAN-B]

The GLA-ALC flight was ready to go on a Polish charterd aircraft but then Air Scotland count pay the polish airline so all pax had to get off and the aircraft went empty back to Warsaw.

[rumair999]

Nice bet the pax were happy - board an aircraft (late) bums on seats then told to get off !!

[air_scotia]

sorry to correct you ek, however

air scotland did pay the fisher mob, their flight deck members pissed about bleathering to one another 4 3 hours and then announced that they would not reach home base (warsaw) in time to do there own routes. after further discussions with the captain it was suggested that they only do the gla - alc sector but the captain maintained the crew were out of hours.

and as far as the money was concerned: legal proceedings to commence this week to get it back!

[WANDERLUST]

I have no association with the company but have heard that the L1011 will never be operated by them. In fact they are in Beruit where they will be operated by Globe Jet,a Beruit company. One 1011 was on lease to Air Scotland but never put in operation. The owners (Globe Jet)are trying to deregister it from them through the courts. The owner of Air Scotland was an Iraqi and a Greek who has sold his shares in the company to a Spanish tour operator after he sufferd heart attacks.
Hearsay???!!!
In anycase I hope they survive their internal crisis and have a good 2006.

[Heffer]

I'm led to believe Air Scotland plan to acquire two B737s to replace the sole 757.

Another change to the business plan?!

[nef]

There have been rumours of Air Scotland swapping the 757 for 2 737s for about the last nine months - I think the previous owners were claiming that they were going to do this and operate certain routes at much higher frequency, although true to form nothing happened!

I take it this option is now coming up again and I guess the new owners must have a similar idea. Tbh, I think it's a good idea - if it actually happens! Over the last few months there have been rumours of Air Scotland variously getting Tristars, 737s, MD80s and 767s, and nothing has ever happened.

Any idea where they might be getting these 737s from?

[air_scotia]

There have been rumours of Air Scotland swapping the 757 for 2 737s for about the last nine months - I think the previous owners were claiming that they were going to do this and operate certain routes at much higher frequency, although true to form nothing happened!
I take it this option is now coming up again and I guess the new owners must have a similar idea. Tbh, I think it's a good idea - if it actually happens! Over the last few months there have been rumours of Air Scotland variously getting Tristars, 737s, MD80s and 767s, and nothing has ever happened.
Any idea where they might be getting these 737s from?



if anyone finds out wanna let us know?
pweeeeese:{