Daft question about "Biggles"

[Genghis the Engineer]

Does anybody know if the use of the word "Biggles" is copyrighted in any way?

For example, if I wanted to write a book about pilot training called "how to be Biggles" (I don't), would I be breaking any copyright or trademark rules?

G

[Tarnished]

Dunno, But you could make a killing in the fishing world books sales by going to:

"Big Gills"

OK, No, just a thought.

I'll get my coat

Tarnished

[Tommy Tipee]

Under the Copyright, Patents and Registered Design Act, Copyright lasts for the life of the author, plus 70 years from the end of the calendar year in which the author dies.

As W.E.Johns performed his last take-off on 21st June 1968, I guess you have until January 2039 to write and proof-read your book.

[Opssys]

As the subject of Biggles has been raised why not have a quick look at: Biggles Info (http://www.biggles.info/)
and the sister site on: W.E.Johns (http://www.wejohns.com/)

[Biggles Flies Undone]

Or just ask me nicely.... ;) :p

[Bus429]

I know of a few bars/pubs known as Biggles or "Big Les's". Strangely they're around airports or in airport hotels.

[Tiger_mate]

It may have been updated but:

Copyright legislation Act Nov 15 1988 states 50 years after the death of the originator.

Whether or not a "name" can be copyright is a flexible agenda dependent upon the weight of the company suing. Rolls Royce for example prevented Sikorsky marketing the S76 helicopter under the name "Spirit" as they claimed that this name belonged to them!

Whilst Biggles with an image of a vintage aviator may be taking the micheal, the name itself may or maynot attract the attention of the law. Companies House vet names of new companies, and a check of their website reveals these companies all registered:
BIGGLES LIMITED
03559413 BIGGLES AVIATION LIMITED
05067110 BIGGLES COMPUTER CONSULTANTS LIMITED
04856643 BIGGLES CONTRACT CLEANING LIMITED
04534082 BIGGLES FILMS LIMITED
04477701 D BIGGLES FLIES NORTH LIMITED Dissolved
05097438 BIGGLES HANDYMAN LIMITED
02279956 BIGGLES LABELLING LIMITED
05521248 BIGGLESLANE PROPERTIES LIMITED
05110408 BIGGLES N GIGGLES PRODUCTIONS LIMITED
03485531 BIGGLES PRODUCTIONS LIMITED
02280345 BIGGLES PROPERTY MANAGEMENT LIMITED
02855028 BIGGLES RESTAURANTS

So you may be able to join in the Biggles clan

[Genghis the Engineer]

Sounds like a reasonable risk then, thanks folks.

G

[treadigraph]

How about Monty Python's "Biggles Flies Undone"...

Or Shuttleworth at Biggleswade...

Cessna originally called the 303 the Clipper. Until Pan Am intervened, whereupon it became the Crusader. What sayest thou Chance Vought/Ling Temco?

[Heatseeker]

There is also a BIGGLES BAR in the Holiday Inn across the road from skippyjet central.

Havn't seen busloads of lawyers there yet but that's probably because there's not enough blood on the sand yet.

cheers
H

[DeepC]

Or Shuttleworth at Biggleswade...

I'm probably being thick or telling you something what you already know but....

The name "Bigglesworth" was a combination of Biggleswade and Shuttleworth as W.E.Johns was a friend of the Shuttleworth family and Biggleswade was a nearby town.

[JDK]

"The Estate of W E Johns, through WE Johns Publications Ltd" administer the protection of the intellectual property. The can be quite fierce. However, it depends on what you are trying to do, and it may be worth contacting them first, they have also been supportive of worthwhile causes.

Biggles' engineer was Flt Sgt Smyth by the way, and Ginger was trained as an engineer. However, our hero was rather limited to chewing-gum in the bullet hole in the petrol tank as his technical contribution as a rule.

Deep C' post about the Old Warden connection is a myth, I'm afraid, and is more a remarkable coincidence than any connection. As Biggles was created in the early 1920s, and Richard Shuttleworth established his airfield in the 1930s the aviation angle is anachronistic.

There are many explanations as to where the name Bigglesworth came from, none with any cast-iron proof.

If you are interested in the story of WE Johns, 'Biggles - The Life Story of Capt W.E Johns' by Peter Berresford Ellis & Jennifer Schofield published by Veloce is an excellent book, full of remarkable stories. (There is an earlier version, called 'By Jove, Biggles' but the latter version is more detailed). Sadly Johns never wrote an autobiography, and was a terrible self-plageriser, so many of his tall stories were, in fact true!. It is clear that if he did it would have been an even more remarkable story.

Four facts:
Johns lived most of his life with a woman who was not his wife - one of childrens literature's more sucessful cover-ups.

He was never a Captain - it was chosen to fit on the books - he was a Second Lieutenant in the RFC.

His middle name was Earl

He didn't like flying, though he was editor of an aviation magazine!

[IB4138]

Biggles Restaurant is at Denham airfield.

Who played Ginger in the TV series?

[DeepC]

JDK,

Fair play. Thanks for pointing that out. Remarkable co-incidence. I googled it and got a few sources passing on the myth. I heard it on some radio show a long time ago.

DeepC

[barit1]

Don't think titles fall under copyright protection. "Sunward I've Climbed" has been re-used a few times as a title, although its origin is in Magee's famous poem "High Flight".

Similarly song titles. I can think offhand of three separate songs titled "I Love You", and I'm sure there are more.

[JDK]

DeepC - no worries, it's one of those 'it can't be a coincidence - but it is' ones.

Barit, Copyright is a complex, changine field with different law appicable in different places. Music is protected by essentially the same principle but in a different manner. Music copyright is another nasty field, and I'm afraid not a lot of relevant useful help. I'm far from expert, but enjoyed learning about the music mess while running an international music music shop. My working knowledge is based on far to many years of being in the book business.

Intelectual property means that you can use the same phrase or saying as long as you aren't copying the whole idea. Given that 'Biggles', in court, is likely to be held to only relate to a particular character (having no other recognised use or meaning) one would be on a sticky wicket trying to prove co-incidental use of the word.

I'd place no bets as to what might happen if you use 'Biggles' (the UK law's a funny beatsie) but I wouldn't try it myself.

[tinpis]

Big Les books are popular in Oz.
Big Les Norton. :}

[Centaurus]

Bus 429. Your reference to "Big Les's" establishments. Are we talking about airport hotels frequented by large women who bat for the other side?

[BBBiggles]

Being an obvious fan, I for one don't mind (har har har) but seriously, good luck with that !!!!

[Bus429]

Centaurus - I refer to a bar in the old Airport Hotel in DXB. The new annexe has a Biggles Bar.

Anyway, how's this for bit of sad trivia?

1) Ginger first appeared in "Biggles and the Black Peril".
2) Algy was a squadron mate in most of the WW1 books - "Biggles of 266", Biggles, Pioneer Air Fighter" etc
3) In WW1, Wilkinson was Biggles' mate but flew SE5s and was based down the road.
4) I think Bertie first appeared in WW2 based books such as "Biggles in Borneo" and "Spitfire Parade" (excellent!!).
5) The Air Commodore always offered Biggles a cigarette when describing a forthcoming mission when Biggles was an "Air Policeman". (The Air Commodore always "breathed" rather than said anything).
6) In the best traditions of the time, Biggles had an arch-enemy; can anyone name him?
7) Biggles was born late in the 19th century and lived in India for a few years before moving to England to attend school ("Biggles Goes To School" and "The Boy Biggles").
8) W.E. Johns also wrote science fiction books; can anyone remember them?
9) Biggles must have been one ancient Air Policeman!

I know, I'm sad; I have many, if not most Biggles books. Some are hard cover and very old.

Now, what about Billy Bunter...?

[gruntie]

6) In the best traditions of the time, Biggles had an arch-enemy; can anyone name him?

The fiendish and dastardly Erich von Stalhein.

At a distance of around 40 years, remember being disappointed to find that a lot of "Spitfire Parade" was a re-write of WW1 short stories (ie for Camel/Albatros insert Spitfire/Messerschmitt).

Dunno about science fiction books - thought there is a faint & distant memory of something - but didn't he also do other characters - "Gimlet", and a WAAF - "Worrals", or something?

[Bus429]

Gruntie - Eric Von Stahlein was indeed the man!

The science fiction books were called something like "Journey To Mars" but , unless I rummage under the stairs, I will not be able to confirm.

Where's my torch...?

[Bus429]

Mike,

Biggles never made it to space; frankly that surprises me. I'll try to find further details of the Journey to Mars series.

Biggles was not above making social judgements such as commenting, in one story, on the use of toothpicks.

Ah, Biggles Takes it Rough...I've the book in front of me. Set in the west of Scotland.

What about Biggles and the Leopards of Zinn? About man eating leopards...funny, I could never manage to eat more than one.
One I thing I'll say, the books are not very PC!;)

[JDK]

Think I can cap this lot:
1) Ginger first appeared in "Biggles and the Black Peril".

Except his name was Hepplethwate. Biggles couldn't handle it, so he became Ginger.

2) Algy was a squadron mate in most of the WW1 books - "Biggles of 266", Biggles, Pioneer Air Fighter" etc.

He was Biggles' relative in fact, and was going to have to be looked after by Biggles after B's Aunt had arranged for Algy to be posted to B's Sqn. He survived, proved a natural, and racked up a score of kills despite being very devil may care about it all.

3) In WW1, Wilkinson was Biggles' mate but flew SE5s and was based down the road.

Last encountered as an RAF Wingo in the Sudan in "Biggles of the CID" set in 1945, after Biggles had become a po'liceman.

4) I think Bertie first appeared in WW2 based books such as "Biggles in Borneo" and "Spitfire Parade" (excellent!!).

Indeed. John's needed a bunch of new charecters for Spitfire Parade, so introduced the Londoner "Tug" Carrington; the Toff (Bertie); the Yank "Tex" O'Hara; etc. Only Bertie joined the core team after the war, tthough a few of the other squadron mates popped up. Angus Mackail (Go, on guess where HE was from) appeared in 'Biggles Takes a Holiday" where he was rescued from S American Nazis... Smart, Old Johns. 'Spitfire Parade' was the worst of the W.W.II books, being almost all W.W.I rehashes, and it shows how out of touch Johns was with real air fighting. The others are much better. 'Biggles Delivers the Goods' and 'Biggles in Borneo' are almost credible was stories, while 'Biggles Defies the Swastika' (set in Norway, 1940) is a nail biting thriller and 'Biggles in the Baltic' is an amazing adventure any way you cut it.

5) The Air Commodore always offered Biggles a cigarette when describing a forthcoming mission when Biggles was an "Air Policeman". (The Air Commodore always "breathed" rather than said anything).

Biggles hit the bottle in W.W.I too, after the death of his lover who turned out to be a spy. In the 60s, drinking wasn't acceptable (though smoking was) so the pilots fought over "a crate of pre-war lemonade" found in a bar. Puzzled me for years. I'd not fight over lemonade for anyone, but a case of champagne...

6) In the best traditions of the time, Biggles had an arch-enemy; can anyone name him?

Yes. Se above. And Biggles eventually rescued him from the Russians from Sakhalin, after Von S had falen from grace, in "Biggles Buries the Hatchet" and Von S ends up helping Biggles in a couple of cases.

They first 'crossed swords' in 1917 in the Middle East in 'Biggles flies East' (he flew North, West, South as well, later, but never NNE...) when Von S was a German Spymaster, and Biggles was a double agent posing as a German spy. Without giving the plot away (it's a rattling good yarn) a lot of it is based on the adventures and romances of T E Lawrence, who Johns' had no time for. This was because Johns was, as an RAF recruiting officer forced to recruit a certain ''Ross" despite turning him down as unfit on medical grounds. John's passed on who 'Ross' really was, and TEL's rather transparent disappearance was no secret to the RAF officers who had to deal with this rather awkward Aircraftsman.

7) Biggles was born late in the 19th century and lived in India for a few years before moving to England to attend school ("Biggles Goes To School" and "The Boy Biggles").

Actually born in 1899/1900/1901, in India, from the details in the books. Biggles was almost the age of the century. See 9. He returned to school in England as he was suffering from Malaria. Both the above books hold their own very well in comparison to schoolboy literature of the time.

8) W.E. Johns also wrote science fiction books; can anyone remember them?

Yes. "To Worlds Unknown". etc. They are the weakest of his efforts by far. Biggles, Gimlet and Worrals were his three military characters. Worrals (Flying Officer Joan Worralson) and her friend 'Frecks' Lovell were proto-feminists (Johns was quite a strong women's libber...) in the 1940s. As a pilot, a woman was as equally good as a man, said Johns (through Worrals) and proved it. Gimlet was created at the request of the War Office as an Army (Commando) character. In several adventures, Biggles and Gimlet worked together.

'Comrades in Arms' was a compendium volume, with Biggles, Worrals and Gimlet stories, plus some others, adding to the problem mentioned in 10)...

Less well known is that Johns was contributor to 'My Garden' and wrote some thrillers for grown-ups in the 30s under the name 'William Earle' - his first two names. He wasn't alone. A chap called Neville Shute Norway did aircraft design by day, and novels by night...

Johns' main job in the twenties and thirties was as an editor of an aviation magazine (Popular Flying I think) and needed a character to ccounterblast the American pulp magazines flooding the UK market and claiming to have won the war (sound familiar?). He made an amalgum of the chaps he'd known in W.W.I and so Biggles was born...
9) Biggles must have been one ancient Air Policeman!
Not really. Johns dies in 1965, when Biggles would have retired at what is today a statutory age. The last, unfinished and unpublished Biggles story actually had him handing over to a younger man... No, I'm not making it up!

He was thus 16 when he went to war (he lied about his age) 39 when he went to war again in 1939 (late for a fighter pilot, but the real Louis Strange was older when he rejoined the RAF and rescued a Hurricane from the fall of France) and 45 when he joined the police. The post-war adventures are quite credible in plotting, age and detection, and many are as fun and puzzling for adults as Sherlock Holmes.

Scarilly this is ALL from memory, no facts checked... so excuse spellink, and you can confirm much of it from the John's biography mentioned.

A mint 1st ed copy of 'The Camels are Coming' (the first Biggles book) is worth a tidy sum, and is one of the few I don't have.

If I may add:
10) No one knows how many Biggles books (or stories) there are, strange as it may seem. Johns was a terrible self plagerist, so lots of the short-stories were recycled, from W.W.I to W.W.II, as mentioned above; some were only ever published in annuals and magazines, and he changed publishers a few times. Full 'Biggles books' are thought to be about 65; but there are uncollected stories as well.

11) And Johns was shot down as a crack flier from 55 Sqn in a DH-4 in 1918, and tried for war crimes by the Germans, just before the Armistice...

Oh dear, that's all a bit revealing, isn't it! You can pick up 60s edns of the Biggles books quite cheeply, and Red Fox was publishing a few (about 10 in at the turn of the century. Someone else has the rights now, and there's about the same 10 in very cheap edns out now. Get the secondhand ones, and lose yourself: ""...I don't think I will, Von Stalhein" said Biggles, bracing his muscles to spring..."

[Bus429]

OK, JDK, you can have my anorak!

Let's see if you can work out the title of these two from the abridged plot:

1) "Briefed to fly Prof. Zorlan to the ruins of Quarda...Biggles' first doubts concerned the professor...who proved to be ...ruthless and avaricious.."

2) "Ginger impersonates an Indian princess...up the Great North Road..."

[Bus429]

We should get out a bit more...

Anyway, space series featured Group Captain "Tiger" Clinton, D.S.O, RAF (retd) and his son, Rex. I've got "Return to Mars" in front of me.
OK, a few more "plots" and then I must get on:

1) Dickpa
2a) Marcel's missing
2b) Pirates
2c) Parachute, torn.
3) Inn signs
4) Dope racket threatening the United States

How many confirmed victories did Biggles have at the end of WW1?
What was Bertie's rank as an Air Policeman?

[JDK]

1. Biggles' 'Uncle'? "Biggles in Tibet" and first up in "Biggles in the Cruise of the 'Condor'."

2a. "Biggles Foreign Legionnaire". (I think)

2b. "Biggles Flies West", or you could have "Biggles and the Pirate Treasure".

2c. Hmmm. Several, could be the one about the boy who found the body? Name escapes me...

3. One of my faves. Errr.

4. Again several could fit, but you mean "Biggles' Combined Operation I think."


Dunno :uhoh:

Constable, as a start, and he had to 'give up' using his title Lord Bertie Lissie. Biggles was a Sergeant, hence "Sergeant Biggleworth, CID."

[Bus429]

1) Cruise of the Condor
2a thru 2c) Chinese Puzzle
3) Biggles Sets a Trap
4) Combined Operation

Biggles had 35 confirmed victories and "...many more unconfirmed."

Bertie was a sarge

[JDK]

OK.
Now I've checked. Biggles in Tibet is "Biggles hits the Trail" and my first Biggles book....

No.3 is "Biggles Sets a Trap." Could be by Conan Doyle or Agatha Christie.

A good game to play is how many countries did Biggles NOT visit!

1) So... Which one is the odd one out:
Australia
Canada
North Africa
'The Spanish Main'
And why?

2) Which WE Johns' childerens' series has NOT so far been mentioned?

3) Where was Biggles when he a) got 'no rest' and b) 'failed to return', or c) went off into 'the blue'?

I'm off to bed, it being 1/2 past midnight here, but I'll check back.

And the more the merrier... but I'm J DK, not Sames. :}

* * * LATER * * *

OK, Bus,
I'll admit I din't do as well as I ought, but No.1 has two answers, as Dickpa reapeared in the Tibet adventure...

4) So, given we've had Dickpa, who was Biggles' other relative who helped him destroy a Sub when on leave in W.W.I?

I got muddled over the Chinese Puzzle... :p

Are you sure Bertie was a Sarge when recruited in '45? I'm not. ;)

5) So what was the colour of the 'Swan'?

6) "I've just crawled over something that used to be somebody"
Who, where, why where they there and in which book? Oh, and what aircraft had let them down? :cool:

[Bus429]

Bertie got promoted!;)

[JDK]

Wot,
Were they all to hard?

[treadigraph]

Only thing I can remember about Biggles was the cover of one of the books i had in the early 70s had an Aerostar or a Merlin on the cover... which one was that then?

[JDK]

It'll be one of the Knight paperbacks, and it was pretending to be the Air Police's (fictitious) Merlin aircraft.

From memory I think it might be "Biggles Special Case"

[Bus429]

JDK, that was "Biggles Sorts it Out".

How about "Biggles and the Gun-Runners"? Started with Biggles and Sandy flying a Connie!

[JDK]

Oh dear, I'm not doing too well, am I?

Best get to read them all again.. :}

[Grandad Biggles]

Just couldn't resist posting :D

[J.A.F.O.]

As Biggles was created in the early 1920s, and Richard Shuttleworth established his airfield in the 1930s the aviation angle is anachronistic.
I thought the first Biggles book was published in 1932.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I don't believe that, by and large, they were written in chronological order - "Biggles learns to fly" is in the great literary tradition of prequels.

G

[JDK]

One must check one's facts! ;) Biggles was first PUBLISHED as short stories in a magazine. The books came later. However I'd mentally backdated the stories. (Must check one's facts :D ) The first Biggles story was published in Popular Flying Vol 1 No.1 in April 1932; it was by 'William Earle' and called 'The White Fokker'. (Interestingly, despite Johns knowing all about Goering, the W.W.I ace in a White Fokker D.VII, it was not anything to do with him.) Popular Flying was edited by a W E Johns, and 'The Camels are Coming' published in August 1932.

'The Boy Biggles' (as a 'pre-schooler') and 'Biggles Goes to School' were also published much later...

He was first introduced as a fully realised fighter pilot of 266. Johns then went back, when Biggles had become highly popular, to fill the gaps, drawing on his own experiences of teaching 'Huns' (students) to fly for how Biggles was taught - hardly a surprising sequence.

'Biggles Flies Again' is set in peacetime as the airmen make their way back to the UK through a set of adventures - it draws heavily on his William Earle (grown-up) stories, and have the most sophisticated plotting of the books.

Overall they became contemporary after the W.W.I stories and pre-Great War had been finished; he then set most of them 'today'; particularly during W.W.II; even to the Biggles story fighting the dastardly Russians in Finland in the early war period.

Easy Q. What was that one's title?

[JDK]

Ah, those monoplane TSR2s... An island stronghold with a vital cave.

Brilliant.

But not the answer to the Biggles in Finland Q. :D

[PPRuNe Towers]

I was a total Johns' junkie from the age of 6 lighting up the world of aviation for me.

Devouring everything with his name on led me to the kids series. Memory tells me it was effectively the Famous Five with a difference. Rather than going mad in Dorset they were a junior French Resistance gang - The "Grey Foxes" and 'The Fleas of the North' or something like that springs to mind as their group names.

So they blew up the railway line and then it was lashings of Ricard before bed - or was that Enid Blyton on mescalin?

I've kept a couple of old Biggles editions out of respect for my youthful enthusiasm but find them unreadable now. WWW1 plus a light, enjoyable read has to be Donald Jack's 'Bandy Papers' series. Volumes 1 to 4 are superb entertainment.

Regards from the Towers,
Rob Lloyd