Moving threads to Spotter's corner

[DB6]

I notice that a number of threads about specific airports have recently been moved to the Spectators Balcony. Fair enough, you're the mods, but if I want to read threads about 'Airlines, Airports and Routes' I go to that forum. If I'm 'not a professional pilot and want discuss issues about the job' I go to Spotters Corner. Sort it out chaps, try and get it right eh? :E

[Exel]

DITTO

As the forum title suggests :-

Topics about airports, routes and airline business. [COLOR=red]

:mad:

[Buster the Bear]

So for instance, 'Luton Happenings', is not related to Airlines, Airports or routes, I suggest Mr Moderator you read its contents?

My I also suggest that whoever decided to move the various posts relating to the airports, move them back to this part of the forum again please, or give us a valid reason for moving them into spotters corner?

[Powerjet1]

DOUBLE DITTO....

How come Bournemouth, Luton, Humberside, Blackpool & Manchester get moved but Northern Ireland, Newcastle, Nottingham East Mid, Leeds, Birmingham, Bristol etc stay. If you move one, you should move the lot. Better still, just leave them alone, on this thread, as all relate to airports, airlines & routes. Isn't that what this thread is all about?.

[eurostar builder]

Why has Bournemouth Moved it has 17 pages and regular posts. Is it not an Airport.

Come on PPRUNE whats going on.

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

Agree with all the above - the move is madness!

Anyway, Luton can't be moved to Spectators Balcony ... the airport doesn't have any form of spectators facility .. let alone a balcony.

[Andy_S]

In defence of the moderators......

While I enjoy reading about goings on at various airports, I believe real news and well informed rumour has been severely diluted in recent months by spotters and enthusiasts who have clogged many of the threads up with far fetched wish lists, idle speculation and rivalries with enthusiasts of neighbouring airports.

It's not necessarily an easy call deciding if something is worthwhile news / rumour or not, but I lot of the stuff I read - drawing up detailed arrival / departure schedules for specific airports, trying to work out tour operators aircraft movements, arguing the toss about whether a particular aircraft is the best type to fly a particular route - clearly belongs in spotters corner IMO.

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Airports, Airlines and routes is what it says so why move them, either move none or all ,but why?
Its the forum I read the most and very rarely go to the spotters forum because I know that I need only look in one forum

Bring them back please

G-I-B
An ex travel man who still has a great deal of interest in the world of aviation

[eurostar builder]

We can also decide where we want to go as to where we want to post our remarks.

I am sure other forums would like more contributions.

PS why is this forum in Airports and Airlines has nothing to do with any of them...........Bye

[Avman]

Bit of a spotter type meself, but I agree with Andy_S. I believe many of the spotters now frequenting PPRuNe are getting confused about the original intention of the AIRLINES, AIRPORTS & ROUTES forum. Danny has kindly set up a spotters forum with SPECTATORS BALCONY and I would suggest that all "spotting" type threads be limited to that particular forum. And I don't like the rude attitude of some of the above posters. Who do you think you are guys? PPRuNe was never set up as a spotters forum, so YES by all means do go somewhere else if you don't like it.

[Leodis]

Many ppruners will be saying goodbye to pprune now the old fart mods have pulled the last plug of these forums. They're so stick-in-the-mud, they'll probably chop these comments too.

Most peope on here are enthusiasts, some work at airports but either way this is only a Airlines, Airport and Routes Rumour!

If I am a spotter why am I not interested in a/c registrations and why am I interested with the development of uk airports.:8

[Exel]

So Mod / Avman , lets make it clear to everyone -

Just what can and can't be posted on this Forum ? What was the original intention of the AIRLINES, AIRPORTS & ROUTES ?

From a non-spotter, but someone who has a keen interest in aviation in the community I can say in that in three years of reading material on this forum I've come across very little to do with "spotters" or "spotting".

[LTNman]

The advantage of the happening threads was that everything about a particular airport was in one handy thread in one forum. Seemed like a good idea to me as it was a time saver. So the intention now is that we all have to hunt through various forums to find what was on one thread.:{ :confused: :yuk:

[Powerjet1]

If I am a spotter why am I not interested in a/c registrations and why am I interested with the development of uk airports.

I think the above covers a very high percentage of people who frequently post on this forum. Many are enthusiasts who are genuinely interested in the development, expansion & success of our regions airports, and share this through discussion & debate on this forum. We are not spotting 'anoraks', infact I don't think I have ever collected a registration in my life.

Many people I know work within the industry, and for those of us who do not, provided we partake in sensible & reasoned debate concerning the relevent matters of the thread,(which I would say at least 90% of us do) we should not be dumped into a spotters balcony forum.

[LTNman]

I started a new thread here called Good and Bad news for Luton Airport seeing that the thread Good and Bad news for Cork Airport is still here. Sorry to say that my thread only lasted 30 minutes before being moved to spotters. Looks like Luton info is no longer welcomed here which is strange as I am sure there is an airport at Luton!

[airhumberside]

Arent the moderators even going to give us an explanation are respond to the criticism?

[PTH needs tarmac]

Perhaps the Mod memories have suffered a little lapse.

The reason for this profusion of long-running single-airport threads was because it was decreed that some airports were having too many thread started to to cover each little event or development. Therefore most of the discussion of general developments at each airport on AA&R should be kept in one place.

Are you prepared for the return of half a dozen+ threads per regional airport?

If some of the contributions to these threads are regarded as becoming too "spotterish" how about putting a Sticky reminder about the role/scope of this forum at the top before randomly transferring highly popular threads to a fairly minor PPRuNe forum. Most of the posts that I think have caused this problem seem to have come from relatively new members. How about educating them about the best places to post different questions first before punishing the long-standing members who have put in a lot of effort and thought to these threads.

PTH

[MerchantVenturer]

PTH

I think you make some excellent points.

I can understand up to a point why the airport omnibus threads have been removed, because some were tending to become, "My airport is better than yours." The various 'supporters' seemed like those who support a local football team against a rival team in a nearby town.

But this does not explain why only some airports have been removed to the spotters' forum.

It would be very helpful, and indeed the obvious thing to do, for the moderators to explain their thinking.

I don't worry which forum these sorts of topics are put in, just so long as I know. I usually visit the spotters' forum each time I log onto PPRuNe anyway, as well as this one.

[LTNman]

I think many of us feel insulted that we have been branded spotters

[vintage ATCO]

Appalling.

[PaperTiger]

Most of the posts that I think have caused this problem seem to have come from relatively new members.'xactly. The infestation has probably been spread by word of mouth. I don't mind (and contribute to) the occasional 'reggie' thread, but do so in the Spectators' Balcony where it belongs.

But I wouldn't want even that polluted with "Wot was the Korean 777 today ?"-type posts. There are other websites for that.

[pee]

Want an independent opinion?
I think PPRuNe Forums are in need of some structural changes. While some sort of the "class division" might be understandable (other forums for professional pilots, other for the rest), there is no need to divide general aviation news between those. You might wish to have a separate "Aviation News" group instead (of the same level as "Flight Deck Forums" or "Other Aircrew Forums") with sub-headings like: "Airlines and Routes", "Rumours and Plans" , "Aviation Industry" and, finally, "Airports' Happenings". It doesn't require a revolution, just a minor change of perspective...

[Buster the Bear]

Luton Happenings contains: Happenings at Luton airport, most of the contributions are valued inputs to the 'conversation', so why move it to spotters corner?

[timmcat]

You lot just dont get it.

It's Dannys site, and he's never pretended it's run as a democracy. The policy is that if you don't like it, don't bother visiting. Sounds harsh, but he's not accountable to anyone.

[Andy_S]

Unfortunately, many of the "happenings" threads are full of anything but...... For example, I found this on the Humberside Happenings thread:

I would love to see FR at HUY! I dont think DSA would have an impact on it at all! If they did choose HUY they would be able to market themselves in such a way that people from south and particulrly west yorks would make up for the shortfall! I hope that they do operte HUY and if so i hope they make the most of the fact that there is no competition there at all! I want to see routes like Dublin, Barcelona Gerona, Murcia, Rome, London, Paris BVA, Rome etc...


Now I'm sorry, but this is not news, and it's not a rumour. It's an enthusiast fantasising about what he'd like to see happen at his local airport. I'm interested in hearing aviation news, information which is on the record but may not reach a wider audience without forums like PPRuNe, and I'm always interested in listening to well informed rumours and gossip. But stuff like the above is just white noise which puts me right off. And don't even get me started on the groups of rival airport enthusiasts who use this forum for proxy wars....

timmcat - I'm with you 100%. I'm pretty sure that many of those who are moaning are NOT aviation professionals, and do not contribute to PPRuNe in any material way. Nor do they seem to have any respect for the mods, who (I assume) look after this site unpaid and in their own time. The outburst of self righteous indignation that has occured in some quarters really leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

[PPRuNe Towers]

Andy S back on the previous page cracked it.

Pee? Not a chance. The site is for aviation pros. The site is for those relying on licences and validations for their living. Any one else, well, we hope you enjoy the site but you will have noticed we don't hesitate to place stuff where we think it should be.

If we hit a financial crisis greater than the one we're always in all the fluff goes in a heartbeat. It's not the core of the site. It's not why we put the time in running this monster. It's not why we started the site.

We have never advertised. We have never written to anyone asking them to come here. You found us and not the other way round so you'll have to live with our vision for the place and our mods' editorial work.

That's right editorial. Anything you write can be spiked or placed elsewhere. That's simply how it is. How they have the patience to put up with so many banal, stupid press releases masquerading as news along with the pathetic juvenile rivalry is totally beyond me and Danny. It leaves our foreign readership agape in disbelief. You really should sit down with an adult non enthusiast sometime and review a few threads.

The mods are under our instructions to maintain a decent signal to noise ratio. You are witnessing them giving you a collective message.

Other than that, splendid stuff. Carry on.

Rob Lloyd

[Leodis]

What about having someone sensible from each thread who can be assigned to editing out irrelevant posts? The forum BOSS mods would just oversee and take out irrelevant postings.

Would it not be good idea if we could have a vote as to who we wanted to be 'OUR' local thread Moderator, ie- someone from the thread? Some other forums allow a vote, has this not been considered?

Another idea would be to let the thread starter moderate their thread whoever posts there and if the thread is not up to scratch the BOSS mods could remove the topic?

Last of all this is 'ppRUMOURn', the words rumour and professional don't really mix well:confused:

Any thoughts??

[PAXboy]

Leodis If memory serves, PPRuNe Towers explained that this is Danny's train set and we (you and I included) are guests.

May I suggest that if this uncivil behaviour continues, then you may find that all of the forums that you like to read are closed and that NO threads from enthusiasts would be tolerated. After all, it costs them time, money and good will to have our words posted here.

We benefit for FREE and, as was pointed out many, many moons ago (1st October 2005) they will not miss us when they shut us out and get on with what they set out to do, to make and support a Professional Pilots's Rumour Network.

If you think that I am currently brown nosing, I am simply trying to retain the privileged postion that we all enjoy by being guests here.

[GrahamK]

One would think by reading some of the replies that some people may be embarrassed at being referred to as a "Spotter".
The threads are still active so I see no need for all this bickering.
Just my 2 pence worth :cool:

[airhumberside]

Threads now moved back:)

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Can I just a big thanks guys


G-I-B

[Danny]

I moved the threads back but there are conditions attached. Any moderator who sees fit will be able to delete, move or edit any posts that are deemed to be 'spotterish'. As an ex-spotter from my school days many, many years ago, I do know what the definition of spotting is. However, what some of you refer to as debate on some of these airport threads, I can only relate to 'spotter' activity. Perhaps I should rename the Spotters Balcony forum the 'Enthusiasts Forum'? Oops, hurt a few sensitivities have I?

Some people seem to think that reproducing every press release by an airline or airport PR department is news. Well it isn't. I take the perspective of an airline pilot as that is what I am and that is what I wanted this website to cater for. Due to the popularity and the extra work that that brings with it, I decided to cater for the multitude of other jobs, professions, trades, customers AND enthusiasts that have a tangential connection to our profession as airline pilots.

I certainly don't mind discussion about various airports, airlines and routes when it is conducted from a position of experience and education. What I have found is happening though is many 'enthusiasts' have been hijacking threads with their opinion and pontification based on the number of hours they have spent in the back as passengers or near the airport with their binoculars and airband radio. It is often fairly obvious who the culprits are and that is why I set up the Spotters Balcony Forum.

I am not having a go at everyone on here but debate over the press releases of Airlines, Airports or Routes should be based on educated experience, not enthusiasts wish lists. It's not a precise science and I will sometimes get it wrong. In this case, I decided to move those threads back here to the AA&R forum. What I expect to see though is a bit more maturity and consideration in some of the threads otherwise I will have no option but to move them to where I think most appropriate.

There's nothing wrong with being a 'spotter'. I should know as I used to be one. I still am able to stop what I'm doing and admire an aircraft approaching to land or or taking off. I don't however get stuck into debates about why I would love to see the B777 or whatever, flying out of Liverpool John Lennon Airport, or whatever, to XYZ destinations, or whatever, ad nauseam. Why? Because I am a pilot and have very little experience with setting up an airline, planning a route structure or deciding which colour scheme will make my backside look smaller in the B747!

So, editorial control is held by myself, PPRuNe Towers and the other moderators. If you are not happy, you may use the 'Contact Us' link at the bottom of every page on PPRuNe. Starting discussions such as this one are tolerated from time to time as it keeps us mods amused. Mind games and all that! :E

[flyerz111]

I suspect many on this forum used to be spotters - it is a great way to get into the industry and generally produces good pilots and management when people mix their enjoyment of aviation with their career.

This forum has many many good threads but, as is clear, has had quite a few polluted with views best fed into other forums. These are not necessarily wrong or misguided views, but just views which may best reside where like minded people can appreciate them. Personally, I have little interest in what colours are on what aircraft or the sound of a Trent rather than a CFM56 but am interested in who operates the attached aircraft, where and with who up front. Airlines, Airport and Routes.

Thanks to the mods - your time and efforts are appreciated by many. If as a result of this we have better focus on the threads on this forum, I for one will be a happier reader.

FZ

[AndyHUY]

Unfortunately, many of the "happenings" threads are full of anything but...... For example, I found this on the Humberside Happenings thread:Unfortunately, many of the "happenings" threads are full of anything but...... For example, I found this on the Humberside Happenings thread:



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would love to see FR at HUY! I dont think DSA would have an impact on it at all! If they did choose HUY they would be able to market themselves in such a way that people from south and particulrly west yorks would make up for the shortfall! I hope that they do operte HUY and if so i hope they make the most of the fact that there is no competition there at all! I want to see routes like Dublin, Barcelona Gerona, Murcia, Rome, London, Paris BVA, Rome etc...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Now I'm sorry, but this is not news, and it's not a rumour. It's an enthusiast fantasising about what he'd like to see happen at his local airport. I'm interested in hearing aviation news, information which is on the record but may not reach a wider audience without forums like PPRuNe, and I'm always interested in listening to well informed rumours and gossip. But stuff like the above is just white noise which puts me right off. And don't even get me started on the groups of rival airport enthusiasts who use this forum for proxy wars....

timmcat - I'm with you 100%. I'm pretty sure that many of those who are moaning are NOT aviation professionals, and do not contribute to PPRuNe in any material way. Nor do they seem to have any respect for the mods, who (I assume) look after this site unpaid and in their own time. The outburst of self righteous indignation that has occured in some quarters really leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

Andy-s do you have a personal problem with me or something? Incase you did not know the FR thing IS a rumour!

I suspect 90% of the people on here are enthusiasts! And most who post on the Happenings threads are enthusiasts too! Why pick me out from the bunch?

The rumour has come from reliable sources! I am NOT trying to start a 'poxy-war' with 'rival DSA 'supporters, i am saying what i hear! If you look around i was not the first to post that rumour, it was also posted on the Bournemouth happenings thread!

If you try to patronise aviation enthusiasts then this site, without them, would be very under used!

Most of the Happenings threads have been set up by enthusiasts interested in hearing what may be happening at his/her local airport, this includes rumours, many of which may not be true but somke are!

If you dont want enthusiasts on this forum then revoke their accounts, otherwise please do not complain about posts on threads which are highly likely to interest enthusiasts!

[airhumberside]

It seems that there is now a sensible solution. Thank you Danny

[AndyHUY]

May i just say i mean no dis respect to anyone on this site, just baffled as to why my posting hd to be the example out of the thousands on here!

[PTH needs tarmac]

Danny,

Thanks for coming up with a more equitable solution to the problem.

I added my comments against the moving of some threads and not others but I also quite agree that there have been many posts that were not appropriate for AA&R (or PPRuNe for that matter).

With nearly 100,000 registered PPRuNe members I suspect many people have joined without really understanding it's role. I'm not an aviation professional myself but I hope I am still able to make coherant contributions from a position of understanding and knowledge.

Going through threads post-by-post sounds a lot of work for the Mod team so I will repeat my suggestion of placing a Sticky thread (for a while at least) reminding posters on AA&R of it's scope and directing that question like those highlighted by AndyHUY be placed in Spotters spot or on one of the many dedicated Spotting E-lists or web-forums. After all, posters wanting those sort of answers are more likely to receive them by placing the question in the most appropriate place.

Danny & Mods: Thanks for all the good work - I just hope you have less of it to do!

PTH

[Wino]

Danny:

Shhhhhhhh.... Never admit to being a spotter.

THERE ARE NO ex -SPOTTERS!

(shamelessly paraphrased from the "There are no ex Marine's!" quote.)

Right, I'll go hide in the corner now

Cheers
Wino

[A Nonny Mouse]

I work at an airport in the tower in a proffesional job:D

I keep a keen eye on the happenings thread, as I hear news of new routes, rumours and press releases, which I would otherwise be unaware of.

Why would anyone consider information pertaining to the future of an airport to be spotterish or regurgetating press releases.

If I did not read them here, I would sure as hell be unaware of what is going to happen at my airport in the future (as we are treated like mushrooms at work) and I would be completely in the dark.

This is no exageration, I have turned up at work, plugged in and had a new airline turn up which I knew nothing about.

Keep up the info please. Info does not equal spotting!!!!!!:mad:

[DB6]

My goodness me! I post a bit of banter, go away for a few days and a minor war starts! Sorry to all the mods if I've caused any hassle, that was not my intention. It just seemed a bit illogical. Like the way you're doing it now though (fawn fawn creep creep).

[PPRuNe Pop]

No harm done. But some proper attitude is required and we are about to make a few rules. Not of the fierce type - just good 'ol commen sense.