View Full Version : Surviving Low Level at 0.6 Vso

30th Sep 2005, 02:16
For quite some time now i've been practicing my back of the drag curve moves and find that with full flap and around 70% power, I can sit there hanging off the prop and fly down the runway at around 12 inches and an IAS of 25-30kts.

For my next performance, I wanted to start exploring the manoeuvreing capabilities in this configuration. To date the limit of my exploration has been gentle rudder turns about 20 degrees either side of centreline. As the wing is stalled in this manoeuvre and the majority of lift is coming from the prop, I leave the ailerons alone and work entirely in the vertical axis.

From someone out there who knows this stuff a little better than me, what are the things I need to be aware of and what's going to bite me? What's a safe threshold when it comes to a rate of turn? How far can I push this?

30th Sep 2005, 03:02
You're probably better off posting this is in the Q&A section. Might I recommend you ask John Farley.

My initial thought regarding the rudder would be the amount of deflection you were prepared to use. I say this because, presumably in your aircraft, the rudder will be effected by airflow from the prop. Considering the direction of prop rotation vs direction of rudder deflection, at what point will the rudder effectively stall and what will be the consequences regarding recovery of the aircraft?

Ever mishandled a stall turn? (Above a suitable base height).

Know how to recover from that attitude? Or what to do if it develops?

I note from your post regarding VNE that you haven't had any formal aerobatic training.

30th Sep 2005, 07:53
How far can I push this?

Until you die?

DX Wombat
30th Sep 2005, 09:42
Are you in training for a Darwin Award?

30th Sep 2005, 10:32
Is this in a Lockheed Electra?

Now, that WOULD be worth watching, rather than the usual SU26 or Edge or whatever...


Maude Charlee
30th Sep 2005, 10:41
Ah, the Electra. Lovely old bird. Had the pleasure of an Electra's company at Prestwick yesterday afternoon, whilst I was busy chugging about under the approach.

30th Sep 2005, 13:05
fly down the runway at around 12 inches and an IAS of 25-30kts.

Has it occured to you that position error and turb flow at that angle of attack could easily make the ASI underread by 15-20kts?

30th Sep 2005, 13:57
Some years ago I finished my GFT in a C152 with a glide approach which left us at the wrong end of quite a long taxi back to the club. The examiner told me never to do this but he then took over and flew down the runway at about 30-40 knots, a couple of feet above the ground and the nose very high. I think I was too tired to take it all in though.

30th Sep 2005, 14:07

Yeah, we used to have an instructor that air-taxied our Rallye up to the other end of the airfield if we were on easterlies, then made the student do the power checks & vital actions before taking off again!

Of course, no-one ever dared say 'what's the point of doing all that when you've just flown the thing?' though we all muttered it to each other behind his back. A fearsome bloke on the ground but a great instructor in the air.

Frank Quick, gone but not forgotten...

The Odd One

Send Clowns
30th Sep 2005, 14:08
As an instructor:

Don't do that above flaring height, below 3000' AGL! Ever! Under any circumstances! Just don't! It isn't safe! Don't do it!

There. By the way Confabulous is correct. I have flown a C150 flapless at about 35 kts IAS, no stall warner - difference was I was at 12,050 feet and could only fly level at that speed, but had space to recover. I was in the US by the way, so legal. The CAS, which is the speed needed to judge most aerodynamic effects such as lift, was probably about 50 kts.

Right now go back and practice what you have been doing but with an instructor and above 3000' AGL, after some HASELL checks. Take it too far, be waiting for stall and even incipient spin. See what you were risking?


We used to call it "hover taxiing", easiest on a low wing with big flaps, just sit stable in ground effect!

Biggles Flies Undone
30th Sep 2005, 14:15
Is it just me that thinks this and the VNE thread are wind-ups or trolls?

Who in their right mind posts stuff like this in JB :confused:

Send Clowns
30th Sep 2005, 14:20
Probably, BFU, but if you look far enough you'll find someone who's done it, however dumb. Can't really take that risk. You cannot legislate for human stupidity - they're always more stupid than you thought!