Traffic position alert systems

[Gaseous]

Has anyone any experience or opinions about these stand alone traffic warning devices. I fly a variety of R22's, some are white and therefore invisible and the area I fly in is heaving with Hawks, Tornados etc. I feel somewhat nervous everytime I land as they don't seem to see white R22's!

Hoping for peace of mind.

[ 09 January 2002: Message edited by: Gaseous ]</p>

[Helinut]

Gaseous,

I have flown a few helicopters with TCAS fitted. IMHO they certainly help but they are not the complete answer. I have had close encounters with TCAS: sometimes other aircraft do not appear to have their transponders on in the open FIR. Also fast jets move so quickly, you do not get a lot of time. It is not a substitute for Mk1 Eyeball.

For a Robbo, TCAS would be a very expensive add-on at around 50% of the cost a secondhand R22. If you were talking about the new cheaper versions, then I don't have any direct knowledge about their use. Unlikely to be better than TCAS though.

[Gaseous]

Thanks for that, I had in mind the $500 battery powered versions which fit in your flight bag. The background to this is that twice in the last few months, as I have dropped into private landing sites a fast jet has shot past me too close for my peace of mind. I would have liked to have known they were there. The eyeball is no use when they come at you from the back. Both times I was out of LARS coverage. Both times I had flown a small circuit and had not seen them.

[Nick Lappos]

Gaseous,
I don't know how effective the portable ones are, but the TCAS we equip S-76 with are great. I flew a program at a crowded gen av airport two summers ago, and was greatly helped by the tcas we used. It almost always showed targets, usually before I eyeballed them, and was a real aid to my scan.

[The Nr Fairy]

Gaseous :

A small circuit I would hazard a guess at 2 - 3 minutes ? If so, any fast jet approaching would be between 14 and 20 miles away, and it's only in the last 30 - 45 seconds you'd have any realistic chance of spotting it. Plus, it tends to be those last 30 - 45 seconds are when you're busy making sure you don't screw up the approach and landing, pointing in one direction, so I'm not at all surprised you haven't seen them.

Depending on the sort of ops you do, have you found CANP any use ? Or even better, fly between 1630 and 0930 weekdays, and all day weekends !!

[widgeon]

We have installed are the RYAN Tcad 9000b and the BF Gooderich Sky watch on small helicopters .
Ryan is about 15K usd plus instlln ( around 40 hrs ) the BFG a bit higher . The pilots I have spoken to really find it a useful tool.
<a href="http://www.avweb.com/articles/ryantcad.html" target="_blank">http://www.avweb.com/articles/ryantcad.html</a> for a report .

[Gaseous]

Many thanks to all of you. It seems worth spending $500 not to get a Tornado up ones ar$e. I'll get one ordered and let you all know if it's any good - or maybe not if it isn't!!

By the way, what is CANP?

[ 09 January 2002: Message edited by: Gaseous ]</p>

[RW-1]

Make sure they have a return policy if it fails to warn you :)

[slgrossman]

I regularly fly helicopters equipped with the Goodrich Sky Watch TAS (not full TCAS) in offshore oil field support in the Gulf of Mexico. Our typical threat comes from other relatively slow-moving helicopters and fish spotter airplanes. The maximum displayed range is six miles, though the unit may actually track targets beyond that. I've been very impressed with its performance in our type of operation, but don't know how effective it would be in warning of high-speed traffic.

Because we operate well beyond the normal ground-based radar coverage, the units we use can't rely on ATC radar to trigger a reply from nearby traffic. This is a limitation of many of the Ryan units, which makes them pretty useless beyond radar range.

-Stan-

[helmet fire]

Does anyone know what sort of system they trialled at the Atlanta Olympics where all involved helos were fitted with a TAS and I believe ATC were not really involved in seperation? Did it work?

NR Fairy: You forgot the best time - Friday Afternoons! :)

[The Nr Fairy]

Gaseous :

CANP is the Civil aircraft Notification Program - see the Military Low Flying GA Safety Sense leaflet <a href="http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/includes/ga/18aleafl.pdf" target="_blank">on the CAA web site</a>.

[Gaseous]

Nr Fairy,

Thanks for the information.
Incidently, I now have a TPAS set. UPS don't mess about do they. 1 Day from USA.

I'll fly with it on Saturday (no fast jets about then) and let you know if it works ok.

[Cuddles]

Radar Advisory Service?

[FLIR]

We use the excellent BFG tcas in our MD902 on police ops. the display may be a little small but it covers all the bases with information out to 5 - 10 - 20 miles. you can set it to look up 9000ft and down 2700ft at the same time - good for low level when your head is out of the window. <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[Gaseous]

Surecheck TPAS unit tried twice. It certainly detects traffic and gives an audible warning when a conflict is possible. It also reports SSR and TCAS interrogations and gives a digital readout of distance to traffic and hence closure rates. No altitude or bearing information though. I think it does what I want. Thanks all for your help.