Generous BA ?

[Glide]

Got upcoming interviews with BA, CX and SQ.

CX and SQ provide me with free tickets and accommodation and BA gives NONE.

(I even have to bring my own sandwich for my BA interview)

Well, I am not going to attend BA's interview as I think their gesture is more suited for the position of a clerk. Not for direct entry jet-rated pilots.
:ok:

[marlowe]

thats ok we dont need you as you sound full of your own self importance!!!

[Glide]

marlowe,

Who is showing more of his "self-importance" here? You are! A generous gesture from any company does reflect to a certain extent how important the company view their candidates.

Now I know how low you are viewed by your company.

Take it easy, mate!:cool:

[RevMan2]

Market forces apply.
So does common sense.

Do they need to provide free transportation? Doesn't look like it.

Would they incur significant opportunity costs by providing free transportation? Nope.

Are they stupid? Yes.

Why? Because they're missing out on a larger pool of qualified applicants from which to select.

(I applied to them in 1970 and I'm STILL waiting for even an acknowledgement. Culture obviously hasn't changed much..)

[Jonty]

HA! coming from a BA pilot!!

Have to say a couple of our guys turned down BA to go to Virgin, and being treated badly at the interview was one of the reasons.

Not the compmany it once was.

[worldwidewolly]

Marlowe,
Glide is not full of his own importance.
He is merely somebody with a little self esteem who wants to be treated with respect.
If he was an accountant called to an interview for BA I am sure he would have his flights provided, they are an airline after all.

This is the start of Willie Walsh (BA CEO) rule within BA.

That is Willie Walsh ex CEO Aer Lingus.
Thats right, the ex Pilot in Aer Lingus.
Now you have it, that ex Pilot guy that was heavily involved in the union there.

The point here is that, we all deserve a little self respect.
If I am going to be of any value to a company then show me a little respect.

[P-T-Gamekeeper]

In my experience BA treat people very well at interview. They are courteous, professional, and fair to all. You can get a job regardless of whether you have a mate in the company, unlike some.

It is their right to ask whatever questions they like at interview, and if you struggle to answer them I suggest you aren't what they are looking for - no reflection on you as a person, just not what they want.

SQ and CX need expats to crew their a/c, hence they are willing to fly in people from all over the world. BA have a huge pool of willing applicants on their doorstep, hence no need to pay people to travel to them - simple economics.

As to basing your career on whether or not you have to buy a sandwich at interview, it is slightly short sighted. There are many pros and cons to BA, but having to lay out £1.95 for lunch doesn't feature highly on most lists

If you are a direct entry jet pilot, surely you can use staff travel to get to LHR for peanuts. By not atending the interview I think you are cutting off your nose for the sake of a few quid and your ego.


P.S. I wonder if you will reconsider if CX and SQ say no!!!!

[maxy101]

Alternatively, it could be viewed that BA doesn't have to offer travel expenses/flights to potential applicants. It does interview a lot of people, after all. Domestic flights are usually filled with serving commuters already, as well as the BCN and NCE flights. When BA can't get enough suitable applicants, I'm sure that the policy will change. After all, it is a profitable company, not a charity. What I would say is don't cut your nose off to spite your face. BA is fairly good once you are an employee. It hasn't sacked 49 odd pilots for industrial action or cut salaries during SARS, for instance.

[gladrags]

Glide,

Exactly why should BA provide you with free tickets/acomodation/lunch?You obviously think that you are incredibly important.

Did you apply to BA,or did they write to you begging you to work for them?-Thought so!!

What's the real issue here Mate?Are you to tight to put your hand in your own pocket or someting?
After all, it is YOU that wants a job from them-NOT the other way around!

I am sure that jet rated pilots(important as you seem to think they are)are not the rarest of people to find & if you don't apply to BA on the grounds that you're not getting a free lunch, then I am sure they won't suffer as a result.

Happy Flying!

p.s: I bet you're one of those pilots who orders fillet steak and then suggest the rest of the crew who only had caeser salads "split the bill"-old habits die hard!!

[patdavies]

It is their right to ask whatever questions they like at interview,

No, it is not.

There are several areas about which if they were to ask questions, they could find themselves being taken to an employment tribunal.

[marlowe]

Glide everybody deserves respect but why should BA provide free transport to interviews for you ? you want the job with them, you applied to them Willie did not come round to your place and plead with you to consider BA as a career move cos you are a jet pilot!!!! are you really going to base a career move on the fact that an airline did not reimburse you some expenses for a posistion that you want/wanted ?

[derekl]

Err, why do you need a sandwich for the interview? It's rude to speak with your mouth full. :p

[LHR_777]

Does that mean I can claim expenses for diesel used for driving to my CSA, crew and Dispatcher interviews? What about the 15p cups of coffee at 'The Rivers'? Can I get that back too?

So, seriously, what makes a 'jet-rated' pilot more worthy of free transportation to an interview? If you interview at a bus company, do you get a free ticket? No, didn't think so....

PS- You can't buy sandwiches at The Rivers....!

[Re-Heat]

Well, I am not going to attend BA's interview as I think their gesture is more suited for the position of a clerk. Not for direct entry jet-rated pilots.
You are however simply human capital just like every other worker. Not being God, royalty or executive level, I can't see what your problem is with a company that tries to operate on a commerical basis. I assume you are not applying to Ryanair this century?

[Big Hilly]

Glide,

With respect mate, I notice that you're in Australia. . . The flights to attend interviews with CX or SQ will be a fair bit cheaper than shipping you all the way over to the UK! Besides, I hear there may be one or two 'Jet Rated pilots' here in the UK looking for a spot of gainful. . . ;)

Good luck either way.

BH

[Fool's Hole]

God, some people are so righteous here.

It used to be that airlines DID provide transport to applicants, provided lunch etc... I had that from BA myself!!!

It is just the sign of the times that tight fists rule the planet. Some of us may have spent £60K in getting a licence, without any promises. That in itself deserves respect.

BA are quite selfish as if times were different, if they were stuck, they WOULD be gladly offering all sorts of incentives. It suits them not to at the moment. That doesn't mean Glide is in need of slagging off.

It's just another sign of the erosion in conditions in this "profession".

[marlowe]

Fools hole you want respect for spending money!!!! er no one asked you to spend it you wanted to have a flying career and so you payed the going rate to gain your qualifications to hopefully get that career of course there was no guarentee you would get it but it is the same in any career that you could have pursued

[Fool's Hole]

marlowe

Paid, not payed!

No other career you'd be stupid enough to pay this much to qualify.

[marlowe]

thank you for the spell check i am aware of the difference but typing finger was not

[smith]

Marlowe

you want the job with them, you applied to them Willie did not come round to your place and plead with you to consider BA as a career move cos you are a jet pilot!!!!

By placing an ad in an aviation publication or on his web site, Willie did in fact do just that. One day he may have to plead even more as I do believe there have been cancelled flights due to crewing.

When this becomes too much of a problem, I think BA will then provide a free flight, a sandwich an a cup of tea.

[Helli-Gurl]

Looks like a lot of testosterone floating round in here if you ask me...think i'll come back and post when you guys have finished tearing each other to pieces.

Play nicely guys ! ;)

xx

[Glide]

Sorry Gents/Ladies for having caused so much heat here. I merely wanted to let my sentiments known. Marlowe, if you are slower in condeming others, you may be able to hear others more clearly and objectively.

No, I did not ask for a sandwich and yes, I can well afford one. Candidates are told by BA to bring our own sandwiches. I think that sounds rather petty for a big company. Do forgive me if you disagree. If I have to pay for any food at an interview, would I mind? Definitely not.

Yes, I can get interline tickets easily and to give up the opportunity to join BA is not because I cannot get a free ticket. I simply do not like the idea of working for someone that is a bit stingy and (in my own opinion) calculative.

Even if a sub-load ticket is offered (free for airline, and no loss in revenue), and no accommodation is offered, I would have replied with thanks and provided my own.

Anyway, thanks for all your opinions and I wish you all blue sky and a great career. Marlowe, calm down and there's no point to get your blood boil. :O

[philip2004uk]

I din't know about cx vs and big airlines but compared to charter groung staff B.A crew are so down to earth on my 2 years of retail in the b.a terminal as well as the cabin crew.


and even though my sisters best friend works for emirates and i like her.
most of them dont give me a look and never have a smile on although you do get the odd 20% that seem nice. And its easy for me to tell more because i'm in a low end job.


But anyway one airline that i have always been given good courtesy from all staff is british airways.:ok:

[wbryce]

Glide, you sound like a very respectable person with good morales. I believe this industry needs more people like you and perhaps most airlines would still be paying for our TRs.

will

[apaddyinuk]

In a nutshell,
Who would you hire???? Two guys with similiar capabilites....one flew through hell and high water to make it to the interview in time and was happy to be there...the other complained about not getting a free ticket and lunch?
If BA were to offer a free ticket to london for every applicant whom made it to interview level, the company would be spending a fortune. Glide, you yourself would be coming from Oz which a duty ticket would take up very valuable revenue. How do BA not know that they could be spending thousands of pounds on free tickets for people to come to london who in assessement are not what BA are looking for, thats waisted money for someone to have a free ride and holiday in the UK!
Airlines like SQ/EK/QR/CX have to fly guys into them otherwise they would never get anyone. BA has a nice little hold pool at home BUT also the higher costs of these other airlines so things have to be put into perspective!

[Flying Dispatcher]

Don't forget that all these airlines are trying to make money!!! BA have laid off groundstaff to cut costs, so why do you think that they should pay for your transport and meals for an interview.

In my opinion, if buying my own sandwich and driving myself to interview can save one persons job then I am all for it!! I am not so full of my own self importance that I would expect any company to provide anything apart from the person to interview me. At least BA is not charging to view applications like some other airlines in the industry!

I suggest that you ask the people that interview you, the questions that you have asked above an see how quick your letter takes to come through.....Jet pilot or not!!!!:mad: :mad:

[ExSimGuy]

As one who has done it (many, many times), an "ID00" is a "free ticket" but as "staff on duty", one can always be bumped if there is a fare-payer who wants the seat. unles you have a Flight Ops badge, and can con them that you are dead-heading and have to operate another flight :) )

As an "old buggr", many (not avaiation-related) companies have offered me interviews and, if it was at an appreciable distance, they have been prepared to offer reasonable travelling expenses (same applied when I was interviewing others) - and I'm talking about train fares across UK, not "dodgy free" tickets that can leave you stranded in Singapore for 2 or 3 days!

As an ex BA (BOAC) employee, I'm sure "The Corporation" would not have acted like that in "The Old Days"

If you were to interview for Global Cheap Air, or Fly Euro Cut-Price, I might expect this, but not with The World's Favorite Airline.

AAAgh! - Maybe it's time they put me out to pasture - I'm a dino of the old days :{

[1DC]

Glide, regardless of what you think of BA's attitude towards you, you do give the impression that whilst it isn't alright for you to be treated like that it would be alright if they were offering an interview to a clerk.
Is that really what you meant???
If you had turned up for the interview I believe that you would have gained merit for the fact that you were prepared to travel such a distance to get there, might even have given you an initial advantage over the locals. I fancy the sandwich was just a red herring and irrelevant..The fact that you didn't go is ok because it was your decision but you have reduced your opportunity to get a job by 33%, I hope you don't regret it.

I hope you are successful in your jobseeking but please remember that in any organisation most people at all levels, pilots or clerks, are trying their best and therefore should be respected for that...

[sixmilehighclub]

It costs money to select people.

The bigger the airline, the more applicants they need.

The more applicants they need, the more it costs.

BA could streamline their recruitment ethics and procedures to go through more stages before actually inviting a candidate for a selection day or interview, so invite less, then they may be able to pay towards travel costs. However is the policy to widen the net a little and be more open minded when inviting candidates?

[Mister Geezer]

Everybody is talking about cost, which is a load of bollocks - quite frankly. If there is an unoccupied seat on board then what is the problem? I am sure an ID80 confirmed seat deal would be a fair deal. That way, all the taxes and security charges would have been paid by the person travelling. BA loose nothing, providing the flight is not full of full fare pax.

People are talking about cost and loosing money - however who says you have to travel with BA when flying to LHR for an interview, when you are paying for the ticket yourself? If the competition are charging less for a LHR ticket then that is a more suitable option. At least you might get some decent catering if you travel with the opposition!

I was offered a free confirmed seat for my first airline job and that was with a regional turboprop operator in the UK. Now if the World's Favourite can't conjure up something similar then that is a poor show considering it used to be done without hesitation in the past.

[25F]

ID80 confirmed seat? Not in my experience - tho' the one time I got asked to take my bag to the gate rather than checking it in, I got bumped up into business class.

[Glide]

many, many thanks for all of you who have expressed your views so freely on this subject. I never expected such huge response! I am always proud of my Aviator fraternity and I hold no animosity towards those who think bad of me.

All I wish for is continued respect for this cherished profession of ours. I have no doubt that BA is a GREAT company with many professionals of great ethics. (Some seem to imply that I don't think that??) I was just a little bewildered by the short-coming of BA's recruitment team. (Still hold great respects to my fellow pilots and colleagues in BA. And that include all the clerks!)

May I say it again,I can afford my sandwich and it has nothing to do with paying for my own sandwich. (To actually tell someone to bring a sandwich is something else. Please don't mis-quote me.)

Thanks for your good wishes and I hope that we pilots will look out for one another in this economic climate where our professionalism and status are undermined contiously. If anyone sees me one of these days, I would buy you a beer. Yes, you hear it right. I would not ask you to bring your own. "thank you" to you all and you guys should be proud that we are all PROFESSIONAL. Keep up the good attitude and don't let your smiles disappear. ;) :O

[ShortfinalFred]

Ironically this stance by BA is indicative of the attitude they hold to pilots, even if the causal link seems trivial or unimportant.

There can be no doubt that we are at the start of a sea change in our relationship with the company. BA neither wish to carry on paying the salaries to us that they do, (see GSS for what they think a 747 Captain is worth, for example), nor have to fork out for pensions for the existing staff who qualify for defined benefit schemes anymore.

This latter was nearly inevitable once we as a pilot group failed to defend the final salary principle for new joiners recently.

Furthermore you will be joining a company, (if you pay for that ticket and bring a sarnie, of course), that has deliberately run down crew numbers and then altered all the 'credit' accrued under our bidline system to create two effects. Firstly, very few people can make the required target hours per month by bidding without work levels that go straight to the legal maxima such that we have, in Long Haul, a considerable number of pilots up against the 900 hour rolling limit, and secondly, to engineer a "crisis" in work coverage at 'pinch points' like the first weekend of the new month. Guess what their proposed solution is? That BA roster you to a straight 900 hours per annum.

"Fair enough", I hear the accountant cry. Well, fine for them but try living like that. I suggest that we as an airline spend the most time away from home of any in the UK that you could work for. You face the prospect of having no meaningful input into when that occurs whatsoever over a full career. Tell that to your wife and kids.

Furthermore, due to the crew shortage, (that BA deny exists), they are still trying to destroy the bidline principle, (where you have a meaningful input into when you work), by abusing a term within it that was intended for use on a rare basis on what is now a daily occurance.

So-called 'draft assign' means BA can call you at anytime and assign you work. A day off is, essentially, meaningless, such that BA have 3000 pilots on, in effect, permanent home standby on any day off that they have that does not fall under absolute minimum CAA rest requirements.

If you want an example of the kind of new relationship with management you will 'enjoy' at BA consider that it is alleged that BA have shown that they can and will contact any one at any level on the senority list and draft assign them under any circumstances. Refusal will lead to disciplinary proceedings and the sack.

Upcoming retirees are, allegations have it, sent a letter prior to this telling him not to expect any one to greet him airside at the end of their last trip "due to the difficulty of obtaining airside passes", (for any BA pilot manager?)

And yet...............................................

given a new-found reluctance for people to answer their phones anymore BA's new tactic is to meet hapless pilots inbound off a longhaul trip and tell them thay are nabbed for draft assign. This procedure is carried out................airside! Loverly!

Where is Birdseed Air going with all this? My guess is an attempt to provoke BALPA into a strike. WALLOP! Away go all the existing contracts and in comes the NOO BA that our new chief exec so desires. If it works at Gate Gourmet.....................and if you are a conspiracy theorist, a certain chief executive at GG is also a big shareowner in Ry@nair. Seems like the Irish methodology of pilot employment is making its debut at Big Airways.

May I suggest that a plane ticket and a sandwich is, in this case, money well-saved. Virgin have a decent roster system - 750 hours per annum, and a fair overtime agreement beyond that, and more fun down route (I know, we see you!), PLUS a better new starter salary package and DC pension than we provide. Or TUI group have direct entry 737 commands and access to a DB pension scheme over time too. They too have a robust overtime working agreement.

Good luck in the job hunt and enjoy UK if you come on over. Hope your cricket team are going to give us as good a run for the money at the next Ashes series too!

[Fool's Hole]

ShortfinalFred

That's exactly what I meant earlier!
Just didn't have the skill to type it!
All you righteous silly people, read Fred's posting again!

FH

[Oldsalt]

I agree with Marlow.... BA take the piss. I've been for the interview and my partner couln't believe they didn't even provide a coffee. While I can understand the need to save money, the way the whole thing is organised really does leave you with a bad taste in your mouth. I didn't get through to the sim, even though I thought I did well in all the tests and already fly the flag for them, obviously I wasn't enough of a Nigel. I was forced to spend a second night in the hotel in case they called me back for the sim the next day. Just one little 10 pence call could have saved me £60, hardly a dent in the millions of profits that I contribute to. My application is now in with Virgin and others.

[lasloflyer]

Glide - I have never heard such rubbish in all my life...having headed up the Pilot Recruitment function with Europe's top airline for the last number of years we certainly would not want your type joining us - BA have had a lucky escape.

Still if you do ever appear in front of me I will no doubt spot your pompous ego within minutes and gleefully mark the NO HIRE section on our interview documents!!!

You need to lose the ego my friend...Pilots are people not gods...many of you will do well to remember that!!!

[wobble2plank]

Ahh, the grass is always greener thread :}

I was always under the opinion, which turned out to be true, that there was so little time available at Braincrank that lunch should be brought and eaten when time was available.

I also found that the very frank, realistic and forthright discussion between all members of the interview team and the candidates, which also took place during the lunch break, very informative and useful. This also included a full breakdown as to the demise of the final salary pension scheme and the increase in the annual flying rate. They did not try to rosy the picture or cover up what were effectively diminishing T's & C's.

The upshot of all of this is quite simple, just about every airline gets a bashing on Pprune, with the noteable exception of Virgin. They do, however, require a much greater jet/heavy experience than most other airlines due to operating, at the moment, only long haul. This prevents alot of pilots from getting in. Look back a little way to the panacea that used to be Emirates, now the T's & C's are also down the pan. I come from a helicopter background and, trust me, you don't want to look at packages, T&C's and pensions there!!!!

The grass thats always greener is usually fertilised with s**t:}

Get the best job, with the best package and company that suits you. Enjoy it and stop moaning about the 'what might have beens'. We will all enjoy each others company in the cockpit far more!!!!!

:ok:

[Megaton]

The reason it is suggested (and it is not compulsory) that you bring a sandwich is that the company does not expect there to be sufficient time to join a queue for lunch. While I was there we had enough time to wander down to the staff restaurant but I understand that this is not always the case. You chose to apply for BA - they didn't track you down begging for an application form. I had to travel at my own expense, paying for hire cars, air fares, hotels and, bu&&er me, my own food but that was my choice. Words fail me sometimes.....

[MAX]

...having headed up the Pilot Recruitment function with Europe's top airline ...

It would seem there is more than one person with a bit of an ego.

Glide has says he isnt taking the application any further.

Move it on.

MAX:cool:

[Bart O'Lynn]

Well I hate to burst your bubbles but i have just started at BA and was provided with accomodation, transport and a healthy food allowance for my interview. So I dont know what your all whinging about.

Regards

W. Walsh.
Capt and CEO
777,747,737,320/319, Cranebbank , Gate gourmet and bar.

Ps i'll be hiring more micks next month straight from the RYR hold pool , phase two of the plan.

Soon the south will be ours . Revenge for all the **** since Cromwell. Now i'm off to dinner at Mikes, ****** off.

[normal_nigel]

Look forward to meeting you Bart!

Will there be lunch for those of us already in?

[Ray D'Avecta]

Bart..........


:ok:

ROTFLMAO :}