Contracting on the A320 and B737.

[Team Player]

Opportunities are opening up more and more, as companies expand, and the availability of experienced pilots shrinks.

On the surface there might appear to be a surplus of pilots unemployed, and looking for work, but the reality is many of these guys:-
i) Aren't willing to relocate to some destinations for ANY amount of money;
ii) Either don't want to take their families to a country that has little to offer them, (or) is considered unsafe/doesn't offer the same educational/health provider as their current or alternative country of employment;
or,
Are unwilling to spend weeks/months away from their family;
iii) Don't meet the required minimum qualification/recency requirement;
iv) Will NEVER leave their home country, regardless of what's offered.

The contracting companies are finding it VERY hard to fill the quotas of pilots being given to them by the airlines, but see this as an opportunity to grab more for THEMSELVES, whilst trying to screw pilots down further.
This is why some airlines that previously used ONLY contracting companies, are now direct recruiting.
Don't be sucked in to a lesser deal by some of these parasitic contractors.
NOT all contracting companies offer the same.

So what should Captains being employed on the A320/B737 in India/Asia expect?
If you're looking at a contract somewhere in the region, compare what's on offer, with what is ACTUALLY available (either by direct hire, or through one contractor or another).
The one(s) offerring the BEST deal, are the ones that will end up with the pilot applicants.

BASESALARY:
USD10,000 per month - after all taxes paid

DAYS OFF per month
Minimum guaranteed 10.
If commuting, 10 days AT HOME (this will entail 1 day either side - resulting in 12 - to allow for travel).

PER DIEMS/OVERNIGHT ALLOWANCES
USD100 (post tax) per 1 night/12 hour layover.

RESIDENTIAL ACCOMMODATION
Supplied - fully furnished.

UTILITIES
Electricity (and gas) paid.
Telephone - line supplied. Monthly allowance of USD80 to cover calls/faxes/emails to Company.

TRANSPORT ALLOWANCE
Taxi to and from work, or monthly transport allowance of USD300.

OVERNIGHT HOTEL ACCOMODATION STANDARD
Single occupancy, 5/4 star standard (or best available int that city), in an air-conditioned, SAFE, SECURE, CLEAN Hotel.

HEALTH INSURANCE
Full cover (Top/Gold) Level (including FULL Hospital & Dental) for the pilot, and a similar subsidised level for his dependants.

SCHOOLING FOR DEPENDANTS
Full cover for dependants aged from 5 years to 25 years, regardless of which country the schooling is in.

OVERTIME
Any time spent in flight on duty at the behest of the company (including actual flying time/ deadhead/ simulator duty, but excluding travel to & from home base in the case of commuters) above 55 hours in any calendar month.

ANNUAL LEAVE
42 days per annum - able to be carried forward.

SICK LEAVE
10 days per annum - able to be carried forward.

VACATION TRAVEL
Confirmed Business Class, upgradeable to First Class on space available travel, to home base 2 times per year for the pilot and his dependants. A further 4 trips FOC, on upgradable, space available basis for ALL classes (F, J, EY) for the pilot, and each dependant family member.
ZED/ID90 for other family members, and other travel undertaken by the pilot and/or his dependants.

A BONUS PAYMENT
Equivalent to 3 months BASIC salary, after 3 years of continuos employment in the same company.

The other "usual" conditions, such as FREE supply of uniforms and ensignia, Jepps, flight bag, stay bag (usually a Samsonite), etc, etc need no mention.
You KNOW what to expect!

F/O's - expect 60-70% of the base salary/perdiems, and other monetary items.
We (captains) all sympathise with you, and we understand that you guys cost just as much to run, but we also need to have recognition of the "responsibilities of Command".

Mr Mod, please leave this on this Far East & India forum - there are LOTS of guys looking .

[BlueEagle]

Well, as a direct entry captain to SIA on the B747-400, long before 9/11, SARS etc. etc. you would get considerably less than you are asking Team Player, still, no harm in dreaming I suppose!

[Team Player]

Thanks for the support, Blue.

These are not ASKING conditions - these are ESTABLISHED conditions at 1 or more airlines operating in the Far East, Asian & Indian regions.
That the contracting companies are trying to demolish the EXISTING conditions - and that SIA has succeeded (in some areas) - needs to be a warning to all of us.

Let's talk, and compare the BEST conditions we are offered.

As the pilot shortage bites further, we ought to be aiming HIGHER.

SIA has never been the highest payer - but then again Blue, you didn't tell us about your generous BONUS payments, nor the 22% CPF contributions, nor the caviar served to the flight deck, the $200/night Japan stay allowances, the generous, 12 month, interest-free loan at the beginning of contract.

As I said, let's talk about what we DO get, and take it from there.

The contractors will try their damndest to knock us backwards, without US helping them.
It's time to stand our ground for that we have ALREADY achieved!

[falcon77]

I appreciate the post by Team Player and am keen to learn about the best opportunities in Asia for an experienced A320 Captain.

The comments about applying through a contract agency vs. directly with the airline are interesting as well.

Specifically which airlines come closest to the pay and benefits package that Team Player describes above?

I have a lot to learn and some topics found in Pprune are often quite informative.

Thanks

[Airmike767]

Team Player,

What a good idea. I am actively looking at flying in India. I have been in touch with several agancies but am reluctant to commit for the same reasons you make.

I am talking about either DEC B767 or the B737NG as I'm qualified and more or less current on both.

Lets hear some more accounts! So far my latest indicates the Jet Airways is now negotiable! So what might that mean
They also are talking about Marriott Mumbai serviced apartment.

The other subjects you mention are priceless information.

Thanks for the info
Fred

[BlueEagle]

Said:

"SIA has never been the highest payer - but then again Blue, you didn't tell us about your generous BONUS payments, nor the 22% CPF contributions, nor the caviar served to the flight deck, the $200/night Japan stay allowances, the generous, 12 month, interest-free loan at the beginning of contract".

Generous bonus: yes, some years, none others. No didn't mention the 22% CPF contribution as that stopped years ago for expats. $200 a night in Japan?, cabin crew, maybe, who stayed in town but not for tech crew who stayed in Fujita. 12 month interest free loan? Don't think so anymore, but at the standard, very low rate in Singapore.
Some of your information seems very wide of the mark Team Player and my only concern is that others should think that what you hope to achieve is, in fact, industry standard already. Cathay Pacific are about the best deal in the Far East and after that SIA. CAL, EVA, MAS, RBA etc. etc. come way behind. You may well find what you are looking for on one of the Middle Eastern Royal Flights though. Naturally I stand to be corrected and it would help if you told us which airlines already meet or come close to your requirements please, as that would throw the discussion open to a wider audience.

You didn't mention the pay cuts and revamped, (downwards), pay structure that SIA tech crews suffered after 9/11 and SARS, by the way, some of which is still to be restored despite huge recent profits!

[Team Player]

Tricks of the trade (aka fob-offs by the contracting companies)

Thank you again Blue Eagle - I would certainly consider a 3 or 7 month bonus paid for a 12 month period quite generous.
As you are entrenched in SIA, it is unlikely you are aware of what is being offered, unless you are actively searching.
SQ is a "career airline" - as is CX, even for expats, who are frequently upgraded on type, and status (eg. from Line Captain, to Trainer and/or Check Captain), which entails further reasonable increases in income not usually afforded to contract pilots.

So for those pilots considering work as an employee of a contract company, it is wise to be aware of some of the tricks they will use.
Once in place, the contractor will generally not be interested in any problems you wish to raise,
The airline is the one paying the commission monthly to the contract company, which in turn pays the salary of the contracts Manager, the accountant, the principals of the company, the building rental, etc. It is a significant amount.
Why would the contract company want to "rock the boat", and risk the threat of the airline taking their business to one of the other contractors?

You can't have that because the local pilots don't get it!
There are also many other benefits - such as a retirement pension, cheap/free education for their children, the ability for their wives to work in the country, housing grants/subsidies, generous travel benefits by the employer airline, type upgrades, status upgrades, etc - NOT given to contract pilots.
If "You can't have that because the local pilots don't get it!", then request to be given the SOME of those benefits the local pilots are given.

We'll have to ask the company for that (contractor). You'll have to ask your employer for that (airline company)
The contracting company tries to act as a "firewall" between the airline and the contract pilot.
Chances are, if you do request to have an item which, in your opinion, is below the agreed contractual standard, the contractor will do NOTHING, and the airline will refer you back to the contractor.
If the contract is (in your opinion) being abused or breached, then complain loudly and IN WRITING about it, to BOTH the airline and the contractor.
Regardless of what the contractor states about the laws of a certain country being the overriding authority, you DO have legal rights in respect of your workplace, in the country in which you are employed. Check that country's Government departments.
Remember your country's Embassy can also assist.
Maintain your written record of problems until immediately prior to your completion, to consider other options.

This is the ONLY contract under offer by us.
Simply untrue - there is a degree of latitude that contracting companies have available to "keep the fish on the hook".

[falcon77]

Team Player refers to the "established conditions at 1 or more airlines operating in the Far East, Asian & Indian regions."

Please advise who offers such terms (on this forum or PM).

Many Thanks

[Team Player]

Might I suggest you research that for yourself falcon77.
Not all conditions neccessarily apply in one contract.
Naming specific airlines where contract pilots have these conditions then make those contracts "targets" of the contract companies, to attempt to degrade them, as opposed to pilots being made aware that these conditions DO exist, and that being offered less is the contractors' way of lowering pilots' conditions.
(SKY Japan -PARC & IAC - was one case in point that saw conditions downgraded, but are now on the way up again.)

The concept of this post is to make pilots what IS available, and has been achieved by operators of the previously mentioned aircraft types - it will be up to each of you considering new/renewed contracts to work toward achieving a pretty much fixed standard, in light of the current market.

[BlueEagle]

For a Direct Entry Captain on the B744 SIA is not a career airline, it is a Contract opportunity, three and possibly five years, possibly renewable. I appreciate that you mentioned A320 and B737 and I admire you for seeking such terms and conditions. As far as I am aware they currently don't exist in the Far East or Asia for the 744 and I think it is highly unlikely they will exist, in the near future, for the A320 or the B737. No harm in you going out there to seek them though, all strength to your elbow.

Please do tell us which airlines currently offer terms and conditions that are close to the ones you have detailed, we have done our research but, so far, have come up with a complete blank!

[coco-nuts]

Guys if we really want to help each other, shouldn't we be trying to set up our own company? Wouldn't it be great for our own ppruners to get the maximum benefits, with minimum contributions (money wise) to keep the company going? ie like prune itself many of us could help (volunteers of course) in running the company. I must admit to having no idea as how to go about it, but im willing to put in some effort.
cheers
coco

[Foreign Worker]

Cathay Pacific are about the best deal in the Far East and after that SIA. CAL, EVA, MAS, RBA etc. etc. come way behind. How about another Hong Kong based airline operating B747's, A330's and A320's, that receives rave reviews?
Korean and Asiana are also up there somewhere - probably between SIA and CAL as far as T & C's are concerned.

[Jet Man]

Most I've heard of is US$13000 per month offered for Jet Airways THROUGH a contract agency. Not sure of the other benefits. You need to negotiate!

[Kaptin M]

Cast a glance in this direction
http://www.waynesbooks.com/images/graphics/landrisingsun.jpg

[BlueEagle]

To give this topic a wider audience I am now moving it to the "Terms and Endearment" forum but will leave a link in the Far East, Asia and India forum.

[coco-nuts]

Yes M as usual well put! It certainly seems like the place to look at. Our local guys are looking real hard and some accepting the contracts offered.


cheers coco

[Old Smokey]

falcon77, empty your PM box!

Incoming:ok:

Old Smokey