easy TRSS and career progression

[northernbloke]

Hello,

I wondered if anyone that had been through the trss lately would mind giving their view on the experience and also as an F/O from the trss, what kind of time scale to SFO would you be looking at?

Many ta's


S**t rolls down hill......:ugh:

[The Greaser]

You will be promoted to SFO as soon as you have your full ATPL.
Command requires a minimum of 3000 factored hours.

[prob30]

Have been trss for just over a year. The deal isn't financially great but it certainly sends you up the ladder leaps and bounds. Whatever people say about TRSS and i presume you mean EZY trss, the training is excellent. Rarely will you hear it criticised. Yes CTC is a slightly odd environment but you pop out well trained and the level of adherence to sops on the line is very impressive. Also everyone i have flown with bar a couple have been great to fly with, good CRM and all that good stuff.

I I don't find it particularly fatiguing as yet, but I use my time off for resting not boozing. (incoming!)

The main drawback to it is that I didnt realise as do many that the CAA require 1500 hours and then an LPC. This means that for me I had 1500 hours after my OPC but will have to wait 6 months for my next LPC to get my licence unfrozen and the subsequent pay rise. The company could bring the LPC forward 3 months without any CAA cost or penalty to them - but they wont, naturally. Bank on 85 hours a month to work out how long it will take.
(LPC is annual IR and type rating Renewal, OPC is 6 monthly competancy check by airline)

With regards the bond - as an example if you have 2000 hours and 1000 jet you could try to get into BA on about £55K At ezy if you are frozen you will be on £37K roughly incl. then £44K incl unfrozen and you will also get back £5K as loan repayment for 5 years. So at BA The bond therefore "disappears" when you move to BA cos you get paid more! (BA = longer time to command etc etc but we are only talking trss here!)

remember that while they are 'sponsoring' your type rating by paying you back £25K over 5 years you are getting paid £25K less - so you do in fact pay for your type rating! The loan is however tax free, but you will fall short by about £50 a month on the repayments to the bank. The cheapest way if you have the luxury is to remortgage the house.

My overall opinion is go do it! great kit, great flying, hard work, financially an okish deal if not a little misleading, but dont expect to do it for ever. Take it for what it is which is giving people the opportunity to get good flying experience at largely their own cost BUT BUT BUT the training is good and you will be better when you left than when you started. Enjoy it while you can, then go else where. Or sit and moan with the rest of em!

pm if you wish
bon chance

[Doug the Head]

Whatever people say about TRSS and i presume you mean EZY trss, the training is excellent. Oh please, stop it! All this ´excellent training´ and ´second to none training´ nonsense is nausiating! It´s just a lot of ex-BA and ex-RAF folks slapping each other on the back, thinking that the British way to fly an airplane is way is the ONLY way. :yuk:

All in all, it´s definitely not bad training, but certainly not "excellent" either! Most of it is good old fashioned D.I.Y. (Do It Yourself) which depends on the individual and not on the training institute or airline.

As prob30 said, TRSS = paying for your own type rating, no matter what the Orange ´Ministry of Truth´ wants you to believe.

My recommendations:

1) don´t immediately rule out Ryanair. I heard they are considering a much improved days on/days off plan and, correct me if I´m wrong, the type is about 6000 Pounds cheaper while pay is better.
2) If you´re gonna go for EZY, tell em you want the AIRBUS RATING, then fly those magic 1000 hours jet and move on to BA or Virgin if you get the chance.

[prob30]

Actually - I wont stop it. I have seen and been involved with poor training and I am talking about what I have seen at EZY and it is very good. Im not listening to what you call "a lot of ex-BA and ex-RAF folks slapping each other on the back, thinking that the British way to fly an airplane is way is the ONLY way", im talking about my experience and my opinion of it. If you don't like the british way of flying an aircraft.....

Your comments are not typical of the crew that I fly with and have met and therefore suspect that I am giving a more helpful and true insight to the airline.

[PPRuNeUser0178]

I went through the CTC TRSS sausage machine almost 2 and a half years ago and have been flying the line longer than Prob 30.

Make no mistake TRSS is LOATHED, and its a lot more organised now than when I went through, I was on about the second or third coarse, mixed in with other guys who had the same background and experience as me but had direct entry contracts (ie were being paid whilst at CTC!!) imagine how that felt.

For brand new 250 hrs guys I'm sure it all seems great, and the more of us sign up for these deals, then generally the worse pilots terms and conditions are going to get, we only have our selves to blame ( I am one of them ).

CTC is awful. Im sure that their senior management and the manager of the local HSBC branch sink a few holes at the weekend and congratulate each other on their brilliance, whilst comparing yacht sizes etc .......:yuk: All the while you are wondering how to pay the mortgage whilst training with an axe hanging above your head. I was a TP captain then i joined this lot and CTC made me feel like I was back at school. Dont drink coffee near the computers and one day I was summoned as one of my car tyres was on the grass!!! hence the name RAF dibden.

I will never put myself through one of these schemes ever again. The whole experience has left me feeling very bitter and ive worked hard to put it behind me, and I am far from the only one, I pray that easyjet\CTC 's arrogance will bite them in the a**e one day!!!:mad:

[prob30]

I agree it is a stressful time and you are under pressure to perform and CTC is an odd environment. But I don't see why people loath it. you signed up to it - albeit a slightly misleading contract as we have explained. Yes CTC/EZY/HSBC are proabaly making a fast buck out of it - but that is the way of the world and is not what was raised in the origianl question here - EZY TRSS and Career Progression.

Did having your car tyres on the grass hinder your career progression, or the fact that CTC are laughing with HSBC on the golf course?

Is it worth it? IMHO Yes. Where would i be now if i hadn't furnished RAF Dibden plus who knows else with £37K? Flying the same Turboprop for the same small time company racing past 30 with any chance of a long haul gig disapearing up my own jacksie.

I wouldn't put myself through another of these again either - but that's not to say that the long term goal is being realised by investing in my future. Yeah it costs a lot but take it or leave it. Perhaps you should have worked out how to pay the mortgage before you applied!

I still haven't met anyone who has been so critical or dispising of TRSS apart form on pprune.

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

I should say I am not TRSS but I am a captain on the Airbus at easyJet and have some thoughts on the subject. Prob 30 has got and excellent attitude to it and like all guys with a good attitude will do well wherever he goes.

I do not agree with ezydriver or Doug the Head in that thanks to easyJet they are flying modern jets and getting loads of hours in a top quality environment. Yes - it is seriously hard work but the other side of it is that when you leave here you will be incredibly employable with a huge amount of experience and sectors behind you.

That said, easyJet have only themselves to blame for spawning guys with their views. If people feel they are taken for a ride (as all the TRSS guys seem to do) then inevitably they will feel no loyalty to the company and leave as soon as possible. I have to disagree with the negative statements on training. Without being too derogatory, by definition, the vast majority of the TRSS folk have not worked for other jet airlines and therefore are not generally in a position to compare it. For better or worse I was in the RAF for years and did many training courses there and have now worked for 5 airlines. My own experience is that easyJet compares very favourably with any of them. There is undoubtedly a glitch with CTC, with whom I did the command course - I was not greatly impressed with them. Nonetheless the line training at easyJet was faultless in my experience. There is a great safety culture and the vast majority of pilots are very standard and a pleasure to fly with.

My advice to all the TRSS guys is to see what fantastic experience you are gettting and do not talk down the company. Your experience with easyJet will get you virtually any job you want afterwards.

Whether I can keep up with the pace of work for the next 15 years is another matter!

[orangetree]

unfortunately people associate 'Easyjet training' hand in hand with CTC. Easyjet training is indeed very good..as good as I have seen. Alas the CTC experience before people enter the actual Easyjet training environment can be pretty grim. I havn't flown with many people (who have something to compare it to) who have much good to say about it.
Any airline that forces pilots to pay for their own training must do so with realistic expectation that they may lose such candidates prematurely to 'a better offer'. They reap what they sow. It would appear that a considerable number of UK airlines are now willing to take that risk.

[max767]

You guys really think that if you fly the Easyjet A319 you can get a BETTER job where you want afterwards? Hahahahaha

I flew the A320 for about 3 years, got 2000hrs on it, in a major airline, and the best job I was offered when I applied all over the world was Easyjet. At the moment you won't get a job with Virgin with A319 experience! BA, If you are lucky to pass there assessment maybe they hire you...

[Stu Bigzorst]

Ignore max767. The mass FO bale out at EZY right now is to Virgin and BA.

I trained TRSS with ezydriver and it was shocking. We were badly misled, and it cost a LOT more than advertised. But there have been some great positives - when my wife divorced me it was cheap (I am so in debt) and I never have to worry about paying the mortgage, since no bank will give a mortgage to someone with this much debt.

EZY are well aware that we are not bonded and can walk at any time, but this is not a problem since they'll just fill the hole with another TRSS guy and make another profit.

There may well be a problem though as many in the UK get their free, unbonded Airbus ratings. As NSF points out, we will then be in a very good position and there may be an embarassing surge in the exodus.

I am doing what NSF suggests, get as much out of it as possible until I can leave for a proper job and get my life back.

[PPRuNeUser0178]

In answer to one thing Norman SF said, it makes no difference wether this is your first jet company or not, far too much fuss is made over this, I have been through several courses myself and at the very least all those other courses except CTC extended me professional courtesy.

And I wish some folk would realise that it is not every first officers dream to sit in a really big jet for 8hrs+ at a time. easyjet could be a great place to work with not a lot of changes.

And one final point, every non TRSS Pilot I speak to thinks I must have had a good hike in pay so there fore I am better off now.

When I quit my TP Captains Job and joined easyjet's TRSS scam I took a pay cut for the first six months on line and had no salary during my training at all. And as for the comment about perhaps figuring out how I would pay the mortgage before I applied, I did not apply for TRSS, there is no "tick here for TRSS" box in the application form anywhere, and I did not know I was to be put in to this category until the day of the selection tests!

And at the end of the day I admit I accepted there "offer", but not after much sole searching as to wether it was the right thing to do.

As for "modern Equipment", obviously not written by someone who flys at a 737-300 only base!! My old TP's toilet flushing equipment was more modern than some of the update 5.0 FMC's I have to use!!!

Not that the thread originally asked, I too would like to make the distinction between CTC and easyjet training. Easyjet training is first class, and the standard on the line is extremely high.

CTC = :mad:

[max767]

I would like to see who went to Virgin with a A319 rating... You are only called to an intertview at the moment if you have an A340 rating. And even then you'll have to wait for a long time to get an interview. And if you can pass the BA interview, why not go there right away instead of paying for your training with Easyjet, I guess they also hire low houred FO's without rating and they will pay your rating!!!!!!. But I guess dreaming doesn't hurt!!!!

[PPRuNeUser0178]

Not everyone wants to live in London, and just a few of us work to live, not the other way round!

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

max 767 - you can draw your own conclusions about why with 2000+ hours on the Airbus you failed to get 'top' jobs like BA and Virgin. I would start looking at being able to write good English and then learning some manners. Having those hours only gets you to the starting block - you then have to prove you are the sort of guy they want. If your posts are anything to go by then you probably lost out at that point.

Regarding TRSS, there was no one with a gun at your head. Those that took it did so simply because it was the best deal available at the time. If you had had a better offer, presumably you would have taken it. I have considerable sympathy for you in that you have had to sign up to something that has the air of a rip-off. Partly to combat the likes of Ryanair, easyJet has adopted these schemes and the simple reality is that as long as there are people who will sign up to it, there will be no change. My own feeling is that for the foreseeable future there will be people willing to sign up and that means TRSS is here to stay.

Despite the negative and ill-informed talk of the likes of max 767, I personally know of several First Officers who are voting with their feet and leaving easyJet for greener pastures. Among companies they are looking at going to are some big names like BA, Virgin, Etihad, Emirates, Royal Brunei, Cathay Pacific. I would suggest that if you can leave to companies like that then your time at easyJet has been well spent.

Best of luck to all those that leave.

[stansdead]

Royal Brunei....?

A good move some time ago maybe, but most people would probably avoid that one now I think. True the A319 fleet is better than the 767, but do you really want to go there???

[Motions Coming On]

Maxy, afraid you're talking rubbish....I know of many people who went to Virgin (myself included) with only 737 or 319 time.

[max767]

Well little Norman my english is maybe not as good as yours but at least I can speak more then 1 language, can you ?

And if you consider Etihad, Emerates, Royal Brunei as top jobs, we surely have different point of views... The money is not everything to consider if we talk about a top job.

Did you find a top job yet, with your perfect english and your good manners, guess not otherwise you wouldn't be spending you sunday afternoon on PPRUNE.

[HundredPercentPlease]

Well little Norman...

max767, maybe your attitude was why you failed to get into EZY... FYI, about a fifth of the FOs at my base have left to join Virgin, all with just a 737 rating. EZY pilots are held in some esteen by Virgin (we're well trained and very current).

Oh, and TRSS sucks and the pilots signed into this feel ripped off and so have no loyalty at all. Why anyone signs up for this now when the deal is so much better at T-Fly, I don't know.

[Blue-Footed Boobie]

Norman SF writes 'as long as prople are willing to sign up for the trss then things won't change'

Putting all that 'Orange Culture' puke aside then if I turn up to the interview in T shirt and jeans, have no experience, poor education, swear like a trooper etc etc, then I'll still get the job if I agree to the TRSS?

His post implies this to me. Quality matters none. Come the bottom of the barrell it's the TRSS that matters most and will stay around if suckers sign up.

BFB

[max767]

Hundredpercentblabla, Did I said I failed the Easyjet interview ? I was offered a job in Gatwick but I turned it down for personal reasons...

[flash8]

Unfortunately, flying is one of the few professions where not only do you pay for your training (integrated course cadets excluded etc) but it is probably one of the only ones where you could put an ad in Flight along the lines of:

737 EFIS FO required for Euro Ops, JAA CPL/IR minimum, 200hrs TT, you pay us 50K a year, only successful applicants will be contacted.

What are the bets that they would be oversubscribed?

[CapedCrewsAider]

With regards the easyJet TRSS and CTC I am not TRSS but I did a short course at CTC on the A319 having come type rated from another airline off the 320/321/330 these are my observations:

Overall CTC did the best they could whilst working within the easy setup.

easyJet failed to provide operations manuals that are of a useable format for the short course (required a laptop in the hotel to access the books of a CDROM). Therefore we both turned up in ignorance of the easyJet SOPs, fortunately our CTC instructor printed off some useful notes for us to get us started.

The easyJet manuals themselves were confusing with conflictions betyween the various manuls, added to which the trainers in easyJet seem to have some sort of email setup whereby they, the trainers, decide on the finer points of the SOPs between themselves!!

The easyJet course run by CTC is too short to assimilate SOPs to line standard. All credit to our two trainers at CTC that they spent loads of time with us to fill in the gaps, in what is an easyJet course.

The CTC instructors were knowledgeable and helpful, whilst teaching in a relaxed and professional manner. Even after flying the 'bus for several years I learned lots of good stuff. My criticisms would be around the cheapskate short induction and lack of pre-course info.

Line training was a different matter 4 trainers 6 sets of SOPs lots of references to 'secret' emails. On the whole a very poor advert for easyJet as, overall, all the crews on line are very capable and pleasant to fly with, if a little disillusioned . Shame the flight deck management is circa 1979, a man and a boy operation with lots of 'thats what we did on the Boeing'.

I suspect that in terms of TRSS, CTC are filling a need created by the low cost carriers, and in my experience of third party training they may not be perfect but they are a lot better than some including the manufacturers, and there is a job at the end of it.

[Firm Touchdown]

Capedcrewsaider,

You clearly have little knowledge and much to say.

The airline has grown to a fleet of 57 Airbus aircraft over just under 2 years.

Admittedly there may have been teething troubles with the refresher training and presentation of the SOP's, however I think you will find that these have been addressed.

I believe that the refresher course is now completed in-house, the command course is rumoured to be in-house shortly. There are a new set of SOP's in a few weeks and they are definately not 'man and boy' SOP's. The SOP's are now available in one document. Yes, it is in electronic format, however when I joined, I was clearly told that I would need the facility to view electronic documentation.

Quote "the trainers in easyJet seem to have some sort of email setup whereby they, the trainers, decide on the finer points of the SOPs between themselves!!"

Absolute rubbish!!! The standardisation of trainers has improved significantly of late. From what I understand, the Senior Trainer (ex bmi I think) is keen to keep things both standard and simple. Only hearsay however.

Anyway, what has the training got to do with TRSS and career progression?????????? Surely career progression is driven by things such as expansion, retirements, ability etc.

[PPRuNeUser0178]

Or what has TRSS got to do with career progression - nothing!