ATP56A Nato Air to Air refueling Document

[maxy101]

http://www.raf.mod.uk/downloads/aar.html

Is this supposed to be available to the general public on the RAF website? Can't really see the point of all and sundry knowing these procedures?

[CBA_caption]

From page one:

'ATP-56(A) - AIR TO AIR REFUELLING is a NATO UNCLASSIFIED publication.'

I don't think you're going to get many Probe and Drogue equipped Cessna 172s.

FOI make hiding stuff pointless these days.

CBA

[Helli-Gurl]

I don't see the bit where they check your oil and clean your windscreen!

;)

[SirToppamHat]

It also doesn't explain what rates you pay if the price of the fuel increases during the AAR!!!;)

STH

[ZK-NSJ]

is it self service, or do they fill it for you?

[Helli-Gurl]

Yeah...? and do they check ya tyres to?

x

[Dan Winterland]

It's been on the net for about five years now. The idea being that all the subscriber nations could get copies easily without giving the poor overworked and understaffed author a hernia getting them posted out all around the world.

Good idea if you ask me.

[Art Field]

Maxi 101. Thanks for pointing out the reference. Having been involved in preparing the very first edition of the precursor to ATP56 it is interesting to see how little has changed since those early days and also that the RAF way of doing things is pretty much the worlds way now. At a meeting at Strike the difference between the RAF and the USAF was very apparent when a small change to ATP56 was suggested, the RAF reps, a W/C and two F/L's said ok, the two USAF Majors said this can only be sanctioned by a 2 star in the Pentagon, it went in.

[Dan Winterland]

And I shouldhave mentioned that it is the RAF who have taken on the authorship of the document. Last I knew It was a Sqn Ldr at High Wycombe who was the author.

[Helli-Gurl]

joking aside, none of you more informed people that have posted have really answered the topic star's question, which is basically, should this type of information be freely available ? especially given the current polictical climate/unrest within the world today?

It would concern me if i was flyng around in an airbourne Kwikfit centre knowning that every terrorist in the world knew the set patterns I had to fly!

x

[Dan Winterland]

It's a matter of opinion, but as the procedures were only NATO RESTRICTED at the height of the cold war and the procedures can be learnt by listening to RT and watching radar traces, I don't think it matters anymore. Furthermore, as ATP56 now encompasses non NATO countries such as Australia and South Arfrica (NZ sadly departed) the dissemination of the information has now increased to the point it is going to be more widespread anyay.

A terrorist is not going to be able to do much about AR unless they get hold of a MiG29 or an SA2. However, new emerging airforces are developing AR. China has started only within the last month and India will have tankers eventually. These nations will obviously get a few clues from reading an on-line ATP56. But as the RAF has already been conducting AR with the Indians anyway.

[Art Field]

It is also relevant to point out that the set procedures are planned for a non hostile environment, join ups in hostile territory would be by any means available, usually AWACS aided.

[foldingwings]

Not quite sure why the RAF have chosen to publish this NATO document on their website when the likelihood is that it is published on the NATO website.

However, having had some personal responsibility within the NATO doctrine circle, I can tell you that it is NATO policy to publish, where appropriate and where no compromise exists, doctrine of this nature on the internet.

[Roland Pulfrew]

foldingwings

I believe the reason the RAF have it on their website stems from the fact the RAF used to be custodians of ATP56A. To allow wider access to some of the non-NATO users placing it on the RAF website meant easier accessibility. IIRC it also allowed nations access to amend their national sections ensuring that the most up-to-date version was always accessible.

[Dan Winterland]

Which translates as 'saves on postage'.

Hi Roland.