EK CCM's Fired

[goatherd]

Heard today that 8 or 9 Cabin Crew Managers were fired yesterday, so far nobody knows the reason, must be to keep morale at the high level it is.:uhoh:

[Alphaprot]

2 CCM's, 5 CCS's and one CBC manager. Unfortunate as it may seem, something needs to be done about the problems in IFS. These individuals were all part of the problem. Anyone who has worked with these people know how bad they truly were. Moreover there has been tangible backstabbing and undermining of TD from the day he stepped into the job, as he was from outside the organisation.
While it may seem a bit drastic, I think if he is going to turn around IFS into an organisation that performs, TD & KG need to get rid of any dinosaurs and inadequates to move forward.
It would not surprise me if there were a few more to come. The challenge for TD is to move forward, put in good people who know what they are doing and get IFS performing again.

[A300Man-2005]

Forgive me for sounding dumb and uneducated, but what do the abbreviations CCM, CCS and CBC all mean?

[ratpoison]

Ohhhhh please !!!

[A300Man-2005]

Oh please what???? Do you know the answer or not?

[Alphaprot]

CBC = Crew Briefing Center
I have just been reliably informed I was using the old titles, it is actually:
2x MCC (Managers Cabin Crew, grade 10 positions)
5x CCM's (Cabin Crew Managers, grade 9 positions)

Interesting, read the thread here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=177407&perpage=40&highlight=emirates%203rd&pagenumber=2) or to quote Baglama
As I have posted earlier, the responsibility for this does not lie with the SCCM's but with the ones above them who promote a clientellic and biased approach to management and this due mainly to their lack of qualifications, to name a few that is MH, DS, MS, LW, SN etc.... and that is to name a few.

The few managers who were able to project the right ideas have been kept away from promotions and leading their teams although they would have been the ones who could have steered the ship in the right direction, the likes of RM, or GF who have no business managing crew are typical examples of wrong people in the wrong posts.

I agree with you that most Seniors have been promoted on seniority, it is however inconsistent and some have been promoted on a merit scale I have yet to read about in any manual, this inconsistency is crucial in determining the state of mind of some of the earlier seniors and their input, as some rightly deserve to be in a better position that they are in now!

This inconsistency has a way of warping minds and does in the long term affect the comitment of individuals particularly when they see that there is a set of rules for everyone.

Until now everyone has tiptoed around but no one has really taken command and steered in another direction, once that is done and there is an objective (Which incidently DF used to do very well) and you might have some form of closure.

[picu]

Have they actually been totally fired from the company or from their managerial positions only? Anybody care to post the persons' initials? I'm curious!

[bubbles1]

I heard TD held an urgent meeting this afternoon calling many people in the office on their days off. One of the sccm was MJ she was great at her job so don't understand why she was fired....should have been her other half!!!:mad:

[Alphaprot]

My understanding of the situation is that they may not be out of a job completely, they will be allowed to apply for other internal positions they may be suitable for.

MJ she was great at her job
The problem bubbles is one of perspective, their will be people who say that certain CCM's were great and others who hated them. MJ's support of her husband, against all the reports of harassment etc, are legendary to say the least.

[Jack D]

Look out EY incoming applications !

[flybystring]

This I think is the first positive sign in EK. Accountability isn't that a new principle here.
A big broom is required here,but not for only the expatriate workforce !

[Vorsicht]

flybystring

you're right, it's just that it has to start a few levels up from CCM's. I'm sure these members are part of the problem. But the real issue starts way above their heads.

[Gillegan]

This I think is the first positive sign in EK. Accountability isn't that a new principle here.

Not commenting on the specifics of this thread as I don't know the people or the issues (other than there are real problems in IFS), but accountability is not the problem here. The real problem is that EK routinely expects accountability without giving their people any authority to solve the problems.

[gee wizz]

The whole place has gone crazy :confused: And for the record MJ was the best ccm they had.....she was a *.....its a sad time for all her crew.

[daisydaze]

Maybe the fact that 1400 crew have resigned since the beginning of the year has something to do with the shuffle in IFS....
I am one of the crew who has indeed resigned, having been with the company only a few years , I was surprised that not only did my CCS happily accept my resignation, with no questions asked but failed to even hand me "feedback" form required as part of the resignation process. ( the form asks you to rate your ccs and various other questions about the company and why you are resigning)
I was an experienced crew member with a good record - yet no sign at all from IFS that perhaps retaining current crew was at all an important part of succeeding as a company....I enjoyed my time at Emirates and hopefully TD will have more luck with a fresh lot of crew managers, it is sad if an airline losses mature, sensible crew with experience who actually enjoy the job because IFS department has the atitude of "we will simply recruit more"....

[gee wizz]

I am sure this would not have been allowed to happen elsewhere.

Can these ppl appeal?

But would they want to after such a kick in the teeth?

Most of them having been almost 20years in the company!

Personal issues aside guys - this stinks - it could be any of us that this happens to - today, tomorrow, next week....

I believe i speak for a vast majority when i say that i am shocked, disgusted and deeply saddened for those ppl, the rest of us here, and the company as a whole.

Don't forget, it was those ppl leading us when we were no.1

:sad:

[win]

It is a disgrace for EK. I have been flying with EK too long to accept something like this. With my CCM gone I will be gone too. If there is to be a shuffle in IFS it should begin with the likes of TW, TD stretching down to MS, JO. Someone up there has got revenge against the good CCMs to hide their own shortcomings. May those heads now begin to roll to pave way for a better system than what is happening now.

[Vorsicht]

TD has interviewed over 300 pursers in the preceding few months.

Apparently his attempts to improve the department were being seriously undermined by the individuals that have been removed.

Now I am as big a critic of our pathetic managment methods as anyone. However if, as a manager, you find that your subordinates are deliberately ignoring or undermining your initiatives, then you have no alternative but to remove them. If you dont, then you cannot possible succeed as a manager. That is assuming that you have brought them in to explain the error of their ways and given them an opportunity to climb on board.

[Quod Boy]

Because you have been in the job "for almost 20 yrs"doesnt mean that your doing a good job.

Whether tha right people went in the right mannner,I dont know but get real with the way this Co operates.

Dont know the individuals,but 1400 crew going is a BIG signal something is not right.
QB

[Quod Boy]

Listen up cheese person,Im not sipping a G and T,nor Im I exhibiting hypocrisy,EK man management is some of the worst Ive seen,as a pilot I cannot comment on IFS,but suspect same.

The fact that your friends got fired,is irrelevant they rightly or wrongly have presided over a sorry mess and done little to arrest it,the same in flt ops.

Take a chill pill,lie down in a dark room.

By the way I have no idea who most of your "initials" are in your rant,and possibly many others have the same problem.

Get real and enjoy your Big Mac.

Off to the pub,QB

[gee wizz]

Quod Boy - by the sounds of it, you were most probably still in nappies while these ppl were busy getting this company off the ground, so have some respect please.

And if you don't know who we are refering to and you also don't care - then why waste your time typing your silly remarks.

[keepdiscovering]

I am shocked by what has happened.

M.J was a fantastic person to work with and will be missed by all her crew.

[gee wizz]

Yes, too true. MJ did her job fantastically and more beyond that.

The best thing they could do now, would be to beg her and the others to come back.....before its too late and all is lost.

[keepdiscovering]

1400 Crew have resigned since the start of the year

That seems like a lot of crew. I'm not sure how accurate that figure is but I am aware there have been a lot of resignations this year. Many from senior crew who where very happy working under the leadership of the likes of M.J for years. The fact the there have been so many resignations THIS YEAR speaks for itself.

If the people who where sacked are to blame for the crew resignations why is it only now crew are resigning??? Most of the people sacked have been in EK for the best part of 20 years so if they where to blame wouldn't crew have resigned before now???

These people are not to blame for the crew unhappiness or the fact that EK are not winning awards. They where infact there when EK where No 1 and the crew where happy.

I agree with Gee Whizz - these people should be re-instated before things get any worst. The crew moral could not get any lower than what it is at the moment.

[gee wizz]

Perhaps TD is a double agent.....secretly working still for BA...sent on a mission to screw up EK.........?:confused:

[peanut pusher]

EK are looking for new cabin crew managers advertising twice in the last 3 months.
I got approuched through a head hunting aviation agent 2 months ago in London.

I had a very interesting hour phone conversation followed up by another this week.
His words, there on a quest for the best, they have a hugh amount of planes coming and no structure or crew to handle the growth spert just a year away.

Other airlines have been hearing about some bad internal infighting and problems for about a year.

Maybe I'll stay put

[mascarpone]

QB, you may not be sipping a G&T at DOSC but by the sounds of it you are speaking from hearsay.

So if you do have nothing to say about the initials because you do not recognise them, have the least amount of decency to let us carry our opinions.

If it were not for the likes of MJ who participated in making this airline what it was in its succesful years, most new pilots would have never made it to EK, the likes of you perhaps.

So stay put in your corner at the pub, but don't speak of things you know nothing or little about. F/D like you we knowand we've seen all you like are groupies and your little porsher got no time for anything sensible apart from enlightening us with your perspective based on your shifting to the LHS, that is of course after EK has finished it's policy of recruitinig DEC's sorry little QBoy.

[SecurID]

Mascarpone, with comments like that I only hope that you are the next in line to get fired.

Personal attacks are not the way to assist your argument in support of the group of CCMs that were fired.

I admit to knowing absolutely nothing about what is going on, the only thing that we, the pilots, have heard about this is on this forum. But I have been here a damn sight longer than most and whilst I do sympathise with the way things are going, comments like yours are simply too immature to take seriously.

If you want to really support these people then do so quietly, but with strong resolve and be prepared to give up your own position if needed and go home knowing that you have sacrificed everything yourself because you truly believed that what you was doing was right. So, let me ask you one question; are you prepared to resign over this? Are you prepared to go over TDs head? Or maybe, one day, you'll look back and see that the IFS managemenbt structure badly needed a reshuffle. From where I'm sitting, my perspective is that it did.

Finally, I hope you get that Porsche driving Groupie stereotype out of your head. Surprisingly enough, not many of us FD can afford a Porsche!

[Global Nomad]

Cheese Features

It appears that you hail from the IFS side of things at Emirates. May I gently remind you that although PPrune is in the public domain, it was primarily set up as a pilots web site. YOU are the guest here, not QB. For the record, QB has been around longer than you might care to think.

We would all like to get some feedback on what is happening in IFS, but I doubt anyone is interested in a flight deck/cabin crew slagging war.

[SandIgger]

Cheese Richard,

Not much support for you here and it's not hard to see why.

Looking for back-up in the pilots' forums and then attacking the respondents is not the smartest tactic I've ever heard of. With that level of awareness you might want to lay low for a while in case your head is the next to roll at EK. I think their idea is to sack morons.

I imagine most if not all of the pilots here have little idea on the identity of most or all of the sets of initials posted.

At the end of the day, whilst most of us would like to see the company do well and whilst most of us apply personal standards of unassailable professionalism out of pride and self-respect and airmanship and a sense of "rightness" about the job, etc etc etc, at the end of the day the success or otherwise of the company is largely out of our hands.

Short of a catastrophe far beyond a single hull-loss/massive loss of life, the airline will never fold and we will still be paid. If management persist in decisions which lessen the effectiveness of the operation, we just have to shake our heads and get on with it, operating as professionally as we can and keeping up with the changes in policy as they appear.

Suggest you do the same. Or else resign in sympathy and in keeping with your principles.

Are you going to resign?



As for 1400 resignations, the upside is, the rest of the Third World has no shortage of applicants for the job, many of whom even speak a little English and will do whatever they're told for as many duty hours as they have to.

[Fish]

It's been a while...

At the end of the day, whilst most of us would like to see the company do well and whilst most of us apply personal standards of unassailable professionalism out of pride and self-respect and airmanship and a sense of "rightness" about the job, etc etc etc, at the end of the day the success or otherwise of the company is largely out of our hands.

Short of a catastrophe far beyond a single hull-loss/massive loss of life, the airline will never fold and we will still be paid. If management persist in decisions which lessen the effectiveness of the operation, we just have to shake our heads and get on with it, operating as professionally as we can and keeping up with the changes in policy as they appear.

I tip my hat to you, that was the best thing ever said on PPRuNe!

[ruserious]

I have had dealings with more than a few of the MCC's and CCM's including quite a few of the ones named here. I have also had several professional dealings with TD.
One thing that became very evident is that most of the MCC's and CCM's were grossly under skilled, devious, inconsistent and downright dishonest in their behavior.
TD on the other hand is singularly one of the more intelligent, responsible managers I have met in aviation. This was evident at the pilots meeting were he fended some pretty tough questions with a degree of honesty and integrity that is sadly missing in our management. I believe he really cares about his organization and if you listened to what he has to say, you might figure that out as well.
IFS was on a downward slide BEFORE TD took over, this was because the organization was chock full of small minded, small airline managers, who had been promoted way beyond their ability. Furthermore the IFS "we are wonderful" mentality led to a degree of complacency and arrogance that is endemic today. In an organization as big as we are becoming you cannot have that, you need structure and solid individuals in management positions.
As much as I hate the way management do stuff around here, I personally think this is a positive step, we really did need to get rid of this lot and hopefully the truly inept PG & MH as well.

[mascarpone]

SandIgger sorry for the Daley.

Well I am pleased that you can at least differentiate between a dessert cheese and an after dinner one.

Perhaps the day it is not such a well kept secret by the management, the crew would perform.

And change is inevitable yes is that anything new? Or should we drink your words for their wisdom, we've heard of change for the last 20 years, it came in the form of management who could not cope and manage beyond their four fingers ahead of their nose.

Get a life, no one is communicating to the crew beyond performance performance performance; go on suit yourelf to the third world and get as many as you like we will see how the chiinese and koreans who crowd your aircraft will fare in the face of the customers, open the way for a new qatar airways!

And perhaps as well if you selected your trainers on the basis of their proficency rather than who they are married to or sleep with we would start a new track.

You say I should: "Resign with my principles", you mean to say that because I have principles I should resign and stick to them and let the likes of you override them.

Seriously where do you come from? The last time I heard a comment like this was on a 2nd world war footage speaking on the third Reich.

Do people just lay down and let you just flatten them, obviously your principles are as far removed from those of the developped world as one could ever imagine and you want to bring EK to the new age......

But hey! It takes a bit of everything to make up the world.

What you fail to read is that I agree with the principle of removing the deadwood, no one considers MJ deadwood all the others, yes!

Does that make you happy?

[Uplink]

Good post sandIgger

I suppose like any company they have to source the reason as to why the amount of cabin crew are resigning as they are. Like any company they will look downwards.

I do not know MJ but having read much input in this topic it seems that everybody liked and respected her. However in this company that is not always the reason for being in that position. It is very sad to see people with 20 years service being terminated.

Someone already stated that these people were causing problems for TD. Whether that is true I do not know. All I do know is that we only see things from one perspective. There is usually more to this if we could scratch beneath the surface a little more.

Only time will tell as to whether this was the right choice. If it was then there could be improvement. We all know that there are cliques, mafias and small empires here. If this was not the right decision, then the big bosses will not look so far down the list of people to terminate.

TD has alot at stake here, ultimately he is responsible for rectifying the problem of cabin crew resignations and IFS. This was therefore the first step to cure this. He has had orders from high up to make thigs right. If he doesnt succeed then guess who will be lent on next.

I think that this is just the start. There is alot of dead wood here which needs to be burnt. There are people in positions in this company that have been here a long time but all of us could not really say what they do. The company needs streamlining.

I wish the people who were terminated much luck for the future.

[gee wizz]

Anybody can be replaced - the world is full of people - but what a shame to lose the experience.



many of whom speak little English and will do whatever they are told for as many hours as they have to


Have you worked with ppl like that? what a shambles. And would you like to be in an emergency situation with them?

I think not.

[SandIgger]

Have you worked with ppl like that? Yes, I think we all have.what a shambles.Yep. And would you like to be in an emergency situation with them?No but what choice will we have on the day?

You may have missed the subtle ironic edge I was trying to inject into that statement you quoted.

Miss CheeseStick, all I can say is:

would you like some whine with that cheese???

[mascarpone]

SandIgger sorry for the Daley;

Obviously been getting used to F/C food mate, we need to put you on a crew meal regimen you might otherwise grow out of the zebra stripes on your shoulders. Thinking perhaps just for the likes of you we should add piping to the uniform and whistle when you board to announce the arrival of the archetypal captain and his retinue?

I apologise I did not know this was the DOSC forum.

Where should we go Mr. little stick if we need to continue our whine?

Thanks for all the help.

Me little crew lost and no idea where to go maybe you can help with your wizlittledom!

Global Nomad;

panthers change place but never change spots! Thanks for the warning I willl heed it! But was it a masked threat?

[SandIgger]

No problems, cheese, apology accepted. And there's no shame in being corrected either.

I see you've deleted some of your previous posts after receiving a kicking. Having a re-think, hey? Good to see.

Whatever your personal history and problem is with pilots, this is not the place to go slagging off if you're hoping for back-up although it does provide sport for some of the fellas in a battle of "wits". I just hate to see someone going into a fight un-armed!!

[ratpoison]

Woooof, dont ya just love it !!!!!!

[Cerberus]

Dessert Cheese,

Why did you delete the other thread that you began, couldn't take the heat? It took me forever to come up with a cogent arguement and you deleted it with a key stroke. Mind you, the Tiramisu tasted good!

Cerberus:8

[violate]

Mascarpone
Your need to hurl insults and make comments about sailing, first class food and peoples private lives, pretty well defines you. Your immaturity is truly astounding. I pray you are not a Purser or SFS, because it sounds like you are the personification of the problem that IFS is experiencing.

[mach-hog]

:cool: Dudes...

... what is the title of this site again? I can't seem to remember in all this excitement ...was it Professional Pilots' Ruin'er Network, or Professional Prunes RoomHer Nitwork... Professin'Hell Hitworks Get work... I am completely flabbergasted... could someone defuzzify the mudlicious slander of the IFS Dee/part/meant on this site... don't they have their own forum...? Take off, eh!

:p mach-hog

[ITU001]

Many of you are upset and concerned of the recent restructure Ek has made within their IFS unit. Iwould say I am quite surprised at the quick announcement.

It is one thing to have your crew members like you, and it is another thing to be an effective manager. It was clear to Ek Management that neither of these managers were effective to handle and manage Ek's rapid expantion. I am quite definate that when Senior management make internal restructures, they are concerned with performance as opposed to the popularity of certain Cabin Crew Managers.

For an airline to grow and maintain stability within its IFS unit, it requires all crew members to be guided into professional workers. This can only be supported by Cabin Crew Managers.

Ek requires managers who can lead an airline into the new future.

All the best to those managers.

**

[Cerberus]

ITU,

Spot on. Leaving personalities behind, I don't know most of them anyway. EK used to be a small airline and we had a lot of managers that operated well in that environment. 20 years later as the airline has grown in size it is clear that the skills of some of the management haven't. In a small company, 'horse trading' and to a degree 'crisis managment' can work without unduely upsetting the apple cart.

As a company grows the small decisions have to be thought through to make certain that the full implications have been understood. When people start 'pleasing their mates' in this environment it results in all sorts of unwanted consequences. We all know in Business that a great many people are promoted to their level of incompetence. The reason they get stuck as middle managers is not because they are that great but because those further up the tree do not feel they would cope with any more responsibility. From what I have seen at EK we have some great employees. But, we also have significant deadwood that have been stifling the growth of the airline. There are some people that are largely uneducated and others that are plain corrupt, controlling our lives in all sorts of areas.

Cerberus

[chicken_or_fish]

C'mon Guys

Flight deck and cabin crew are still one team! We will ALL be affected by the changes.

Fight the problems.......not each other!

[Mr. Ree]

C'mon Guys

Flight deck and cabin crew are still one team! We will ALL be affected by the changes.

What a crock of sh*t, how many "team" players get together on the average layover these days? How many take the time to come say hello on a 14 hr flight? How many have the common courtesy and manners to greet/acknowledge the flight deck in a hotel lobby, crew bus, briefing etc. The only time (most of) the cabin crew venture near the flight deck is when the feces has hit the fan or when they need something!

Team my arse, have a look around, you're on your own!

[gee wizz]

Thank you for your support guys.

We are one team and hopefully most of us know that.

Personally, i have a lot of respect for u guys up front. Perhaps the new crew are sometimes a little nervous to come and see you and as you know some flights there just isn't the time.

But anyway, back to the issue - the cabin crew are generally really very upset about what has happened. It will affect us in a big way. I have been here for 11 years and there isn't one person in the office who knows me anymore! The people who have gone were much respected by us, and they were caring people who have gone out of their way to help lots of people - in their own time as well.

[mascarpone]

With the likes of PF to name but one why would anyone in their right mind wish to visit the F/D?

Or reassure me by telling me that he has gone.

As to going out downroute, well I get a wee tired of the same fattys' and lot everywhere we go, but has it struck anyone that the demography has changed? Although we do manage a night out at least on one roster, cabin crew are not flying the same patterns as F/D, then there are the F/D changes on some routes and so on, trust me boys it ain't that easy!

[Mr. Ree]

If flight deck make themselves accessible, actually take time to break down some of the barriers that are perceived to be there by the cabin crew
Sounds like you must really be hard up to do all that cabin crew ars* licking! But like you say, pay the bill and they might even laugh at some of your jokes!

I don't beg for 23 year old kids for their company and slapper conversation. Been around the block too often.

[dingding]

I'm sorry guys, about that dinner, has someone actually thought that some of you actually pull the same stunt!! Not that it's right, however, decide on how to settle the bill before you order!!

Try be a bit more individual in judging people.

The amount of time I've spent alone with you guys going out for a drink and dinner by myself, because no one of our crew has showed up is numerous! And then having to listen to flight stories whole night long in stead of other interests in life...

That doesn't mean I won't go out for dinner anymore, because not everyone is the same. We all have our own agenda's and things to do, especially if and when we finally get that layover we bid for!! As you may encounter as well, is that our bidding system isn't that crew friendly, so if we are "blessed" to get something to our liking, let us enjoy that as well in our own way. There are different ways of being a team, and going out on the piss and getting hammered isn't on everyones' idea of having a good time and switching of from work.

Lets keep some respect for eachother here! When you start there, you got something going!

[mascarpone]

Who was the F/O now captain from canada who always manages to wiggle himself out of paying the bill? FG?

Ding ding you are right! and not just that but they want to impose their order while they are there, screw the girls when they can and tell us about their new house in Guantanamo bay!
And the porsche that's on the way.

And they are always moaning about money!

[max AB]

mascarpone, I assume you are still talking about CCMs...

[dingding]

Mascarpone,

I understand where you are comming from, and I understand where they are comming from. The point is that everyone always generelises and forgets that we are all individuals!!!

And yes, on the cc's end of the story, the cockboys can be very intimidating and scary to talk to.

From the cockboys' side, the crew sometimes are like a kindergarden-crew they have to work with.

So, I'm not pointing fingers, just pointing out that as we are all supposed to adults, lets just try and act like them. And if it means that cc have to lead by example, so be it, however if it is the cockboys, so be it too!!

[mascarpone]

Oh ! Desert whine pitty you are no good for me just another fore-akh-skin!

Your post is too long and I have no time!


Good night, and if you have a manual for the porsche keep it under your pillow and toss on it as much as you like!

Ding ding good on you good sense!

Still are cock boys this lot what can I say? They can't take criticism and want the F/D door open?
doubt it unles you are a 33DD.

Sexist pigs!

[goofy76]

I can understand that you might be surprised that during a 14hr sector none of the crew have been to visit the cockpit but do you realise what is happening in the cabin?

1. some pursers still discourage movements by crew between cabin classes.

2. for example a SYD/MEL trip all crew are on duty for the first service and then half go straight down to the bunks for their break. During this time the remaining crew are kept well busy clearing up, doing preps for the next service/sector aswell as maintaining the cabin they cant afford the time to visit the flight deck and leave the other crew alone. Then the break shifts swap over before its all hands on deck for the final service before landing.

As for some of your other points it goes both ways believe me. Ive also been ignored by flight deck crew in hotel lobbies, or could it be that people do look different out of uniform and they've not recognised you?

Dont take any of it personal. Im not a person big on attending the crew dinners because after spending that 14hr sector, the last thing i'd want to do is go for dinner with the same cabin crew. Although i always make a point of thanking the tech crew at the end of the trip rather than being the 5th person to shout out loud on the crew bus asking how many flying hours ive just accumulated!

[chicken_or_fish]

Sorry

I did not mean to add fuel to the fire.
I'm one of the rare ones that visits the deck regularly and Im am also the one delegated "social coordinator" most the time.
I am married to a pilot so can see both sides....in the end it just comes down to respect for each other.

Can we now get back to the real reason for this thread?

[mini cooper]

With all these CCMs gone who is going to fill the void left??

[mascarpone]

Perhaps this article on ITP might enlighten some of you as to what is really happening, TD wants to bring in his colleagues from BA......


Emirates in top management cull
by Rhys Jones ([email protected])
EMIRATES AIRLINE has axed a number of its senior management in a bid to halt the slipping service standards on many of its flights, Arabian Business can reveal.

Terry Daly, Emirates' senior vice president, service delivery, sacked the staff last week after having previously called a meeting to highlight the decline in service standards on the Dubai-based carrier's flights. Senior Emirates executives are now braced for a wave of challenges to the dismissals.

"I can confirm the meeting took place," said Mike Simon, senior vice president of corporate communications at Emirates. "There were not widespread dismissals - there were eight [sackings] and more information will be released pending the result of the staff's appeal."

Earlier this year Emirates, which operates flights to 77 cities in 54 countries, issued a warning to its 5600 cabin crew staff about service standards. A letter to senior airline stewards from Daly urged them to improve their quality of service, galley behaviour, attitude, grooming, cabin monitoring and to reduce noise levels.

"I am very sad to say that we have been receiving more and more reports about our standards slipping," said Daly in the internal memo. "I stood watching one of our peak departure periods recently and I was appalled at some of the things I saw."

Since its launch in 1985, Emirates has received more than 250 international awards in recognition of its efforts to provide high levels of customer service, including Airline of the Year and Best Customer Service. Although the carrier insists on consistently high service standards it has previously acknowledged that many of its 25,000 staff fail to meet them.

"Given the scale, it is inevitable that there will be some differences in cultural outlook and in attitude. Many of our cabin crew are working in their first overseas employment ever and we appreciate that some may have difficulties in adjusting to a new and working environment," said an Emirates Airline spokesperson. "Emirates prides itself on taking customer feedback seriously. The letters to our in-flight staff were written in order to refocus and re-engage our crew on key areas which our customers say are important," the carrier's spokesperson added.

Sources within Emirates told Arabian Business that Daly, who previously worked for British Airways (BA) in the region is keen to replace the dismissed staff with some of his former colleagues at the UK flag carrier.

Daly was previously BA's general manager for its passenger and cargo business and later became the airline's area manager for the Middle East - a position based in Dubai.

All eyes will be on Emirates in the coming weeks and months as it is one of the launch carriers of the eagerly anticipated A380 super-jumbo aircraft. As such, Daly's initiative is seen as a move to match his former employer, BA's reputation as the world leader for providing high-quality in-flight service.

[max AB]

Come on Smegma..."sources within Emirates..." it may or may not be true, but quoting "sources" is the oldest jounalistic trick in the book. The simple fact is if people (crew) are not performing then it comes down to either training or management. TD has looked at training and now management, he would appear to be one of the few senior managers prepared to make a decision. I do not know any of the CCMs, but just because some were well liked, doesn't make them good at their jobs.

[SandIgger]

TD has looked at training and now managementMaybe it's neither. Maybe the crew they're hiring these days are just plain old STUPID.

[mascarpone]

SandIgger, I could only agree with you, as a matter of fact all new recruits are stupid, including the pilots they are getting these days, I think you are living proof of that!


Oh yes, and turtleneck show us that stick of yours, as if the only thing that existed between God and mother earth was the pilot himself. God save us!

Driver!

I wonder whose time it is anyway yours or ours? As if you could just decide....Pilots in EK can't even decide for themselves let alone for crew, I've seen the lot of you in action, avoiding to write ASR's for fear of being called in......

Skiving to pay bills and eating in the grottiest of places to make the morgage terms on your guantanmo bay facility......and then expecting first class food, because your wife who knows you better chooses not to feed you. I wonder why?...............Why should I go out with you and pay for you when at the end you are going to kick me in the mouth?

and half of you have the knack to stand there and pretend that you have authority, yea right, my ass! The day you walk out the door like most who have you'll only have your hand above your hand like every employee above your head to say bye bye and yyour tail between your legs to clean up your own feces.

It's the lot like you who have nothing to do but push threats on the net that make EK miserable. It speaks for much of the attitude of you lot on board and the prevailing racism and bigotry that differentiate you from the rest.

Keep it mate its all yours with the little chinese and koreans, we'll see how much juice you'll get out of them before you go senile over the 2 dirhams extra you save.

Now Halleluyah if I ain't speaking the gobsmacking truth!

Get a life!

[ITU001]

So does the above post support the underlying issue as to why IFS was restructured.?

Please stick with the aformentioned topic and avoid going off in a tangent.

mascarpone, can you highlight where in the newspaper article you produced, it states that TD is proposing to recruit staff from BA??

[Cerberus]

'Halleluyah'..... seems a nerve has been tweaked!! If any of you have got a Marlin boat can I come along? We'd be bound to catch something even if the hook was baited with cheese. For another angle, I heard TD was leaving soon anyway.

[dingding]

I heard he got a warning letter, it's news to me he's going to leave.
Anyone else heard that one as well?

[Oblaaspop]

Hey 'Gonadzola', pull your head out of your arse please and stop being so rude to your fellow professionals (who whether you like it or not do have more authority than you -- thank god).

I've just wasted 10 minutes reading all your vitriol.

I think you just have to accept that EK (and I'm sad to say this) probably has the least sociable CC of any airline (save a couple in the far east). This is now the 4th airline I've worked for and have never come accross a bunch of people so unwilling to speak to one another let alone the guys in the front.

I did a 9hr flight to MNL recently with a top bloke sat next to me (both of us mid 30's BTW so not too old and crusty yet), and despite being friendly and jovial in the briefing and inviting the crew up to the flight deck be it for a chat or a rest, no-one NOT ONE person from the crew bothered to come up to the FD during the flight.....The L1 did her duty by checking on us every 20 mins BY INTERPHONE, and I brought my dinner in myself after taking a slash. To rub salt into the wound, the L1 (while sat on her jumpseat reading 'OK magazine!!) even had the audacity to say to me (on one of my piss breaks) 'you guys must get really bored in there sometimes'!! We had a sniff of each others armpits-wasn't that, so I'm sorry to say the only conclusion we could make was that there was a bunch of completely miserable tossers AFT of the FD door, that have no concept of what its like to be locked in a tiny room considerably smaller than a convicted murderer's prison cell for hours on end.

Before you respond with the 'but you guys dont know what we do down the back, we're soooooo busy' nonsense, I'm married to crew and I've worked for other airlines (unlike most of you), so I' do have a concept of 'what you do', and I cannot accept that on a 9hr flight you can't spare 10 MINS to come and see the drivers especially when most of the pax are asleep!

Some of you should try working for a UK Charter airline, then you'd know what hard work really was: 360 smelly 'chav' pax in an A330, 10 crew, 11hrs 30mins to Mexico from London, NO REST, NO BIDDING SYSTEM etc etc. yet they still find time to come and say 'Hi', and despite the 14hr total duty dealing with 'Package Holiday Punters' (imagine dealing with Manchester type pax every flight, and you'll have an idea, ie smoking in the lav's, punching each other, and throwing up/pissing in the galley (sad but true))---still the crew turn round and say 'right guys, where we off to tonight?' NOT 'oh I'm really tired I did a night DOH 3 days ago', while standing in the hotel reception after a 7hr working day to MUC!!!!!!!! 'Kin stunning......

So to reiterate, no-one in my previous airlines thought I was unapproachable (least of all my missus), it would seem most of you are unapproachable towards us, but perhaps more strangely TOWARDS EACH OTHER!!!!

Having had my rant, and got a few things off my chest that have been brewing for a while now, I would like to point out that not all EK crew fit the above 'chip on the shoulder towards FD' profile, indeed I've had a good few layovers and a laugh with crew here - one which stands out was when 2 girls came up to me the next morning after a top night out and said 'jeez, we haven't had that much fun or laughed that much in ages', well perhaps you should take the time to get to know us a little on a flight, and who knows maybe you wont spend 23hrs staring at the inside of a hotel room by yourself even if you are 'playing the invisible banjo':D (think about it girls, it does look like it, and we know you all do it).

Sorry for the long post, needed to redress the balance towards mini baby bell(end) rant over.........

[gee wizz]

ding-ding - yes i heard that too.

Oblaaspop - why do you assume that we haven\'t worked for a UK charter airline? I have. Can\'t we all just stop fighting and get back to the more serious issue of those un-fairly treated ccm\'s.

[Oblaaspop]

Gee wiz, sorry buddy, I didn't mean to imply that I was the only person in the world that had worked UK Charter......

As you have, you will know exactly what I'm talking about, fair enough??

[gee wizz]

well, yes i do.;)

[AVIATOR757]

Maybe someone needs to get L**D

[4HolerPoler]

http://www.atforumz.com/images/smilies/popcorn.gif
http://www.ronaldreagan.com/ubb/graemlins/popcorn.gif

This is great - I thought this thread was dead - rock on!

4HP

[gee wizz]

WHAT EK MAIL BOX DROP THING?????

And why do u say about watching asses?

No point in that.

You are only as good as your last flight with EK.

Doesn\'t matter how clean your record is, for how many years. Doesn\'t matter how hard you work or how loyal you are.

If they decide your out then your out. Forget the past.

I think that has become apparent.

[Warlock2000]

Goofy76....
some pursers still discourage movements by crew between cabin classes
Lets get something straight, the purser is not and WILL NEVER be in charge of the aeroplane. Never be afraid to go speak to the Captain directly if you think the purser deserves his/her arse kicked!

Opblaaspop (great name by the way), FANTASTIC long post.

Mr. Ree and everyone else who CAN see the wood for the trees, can't agree more.

We've got some fantastic cabin crew in this airline, unfortunately an enigma has arisen whereby few stick together and because of childish banter by someone who got shagged by someone who never called back because he shagged someone else, flight deck are ALL sexist pigs. Individuals would rather become Samsonite diners (read pot noodles) staring at the CNN screens all over the world on layovers than living a job that has so much more to offer than pushing a trolley at 40 000 feet!

I'm gonna put my foot in it, if we're ever gonna recover A LOT more people need to be fired because whether you believe it or not, your attitude outside the aircraft reflects on your attitude in the aircraft.

[BYMONEK]

Couldn't agree more. Not saying that EVERYONE, EVERYNIGHT should be out on the piss, but like Opblaaspop says, having worked UK charter and seen the fun and team building that goes on down route, it makes the flights way more easier. The truth is that although it's great to announce the 9 languages spoken on todays flight, the culture divide/backgrounds/intelligence difference between many crew, means working together as a team can be a struggle. Standards and knowledge amongst crew varies tremendously. This was proved on a flight recently when we called the mid galley and asked the girl who answered to look out of the window and check to see if the left wing was still attached. We could hear the laughter from the galley and latter she came up to say hello. We did the same to the rear galley ( girl barely spoke English) and waited 5 minutes before receiving a call. What a relief it was when she told us the wing was still there! Needless to say, she wasn't one of the social visitors during the trip.:rolleyes:

Try it next time,you'll be amazed! There again.........

[Wiley]

At the (absolutely enormous, I suspect) risk of offending everyone, let me throw in my tuppence worth on what has become the sub-subject of this thread.

Delsey diners make up a proportion of the cabin crews of every airline in the world – it’s certainly not something exclusive to EK. (In my first airline, I recall ‘I have to wash my hair’, ‘I have to get my Christmas cards written’ (in *** September!), and what topped the lot was the FA who took a sewing machine with her on an overnight.)

Call it inverse snobbery or good taste, the fact is, there are young ladies out there who have decided for one reason or another that they don’t like to socialize with tech crew. In all too many cases, the one reason is no other than some pilot did ’er wrong, and by some peculiar twist of logic, all pilots are henceforth tarred with the same broad brush.

However, all that is of no consequence to the bigger problem we’ve been discussing here. The fact is - and it should make anyone in EK management uncomfortable – for too long now, we’ve been experiencing a far too heavy turnover of cabin crew. I know that there has been a school of thought quite high up in Management that this is not such a bad thing – that fresh blood, younger faces (and let’s face it, shapely, lissome bods) are exactly what the airline wants and will continue to want.

That might have had some merit in the days when EK was a small semi regional operator, but it isn’t the case any more. We need to retain experienced cabin crew, but in all too many cases, the very ones who have the get up and go EK so desperately needs to retain do just that – they get up and go, in all too many cases, after patently silly (or bloody minded) decisions from their supervisors. I’ve said for some time now that we need to consider some system of awarding a higher Grade to senior crew who stay on (which translates, of course, into ‘who are invited to stay on’), with perhaps a few extra perks thrown in, like education and medical allowance for kids, or something equally attractive to the non-marrieds. But a suggestion like that will cost money, (to which I say ‘will it really, when all things are taken into account?), so we know where that will go.

Sadly, this too high turnover results in crew working First and Business Class who just shouldn’t be there – at least not yet in their careers. (My record is because of no-show crew and late callouts, a Grade 2 just three weeks out of training school working FC – on an 8 day trip.) With the best will in the world, a kid not long out of Neasdon Comprehensive or Penrif ‘igh isn’t ready to work First Class. Quite recently I sat in Row 3 of a full First Class cabin and, (I can only assume, along with every other passenger in the cabin), was treated to a far too detailed account of the recent events in the love life of the Grade 1 sitting in her jump seat at L1 as the aircraft made its approach for landing.

Last row in Business class in an A345 on a mostly night time13+ hour sector? Rest? Forget it. Between talking amongst themselves and (it seemed to me) constantly crashing the bins in the Business Class galley back into their stowage places (with absolutely no attempt to be gentle) as they prepared for the breakfast service, the crew kept everyone in at least the last row of Business Class awake.

I’ve had the occasional flight where the service to the cockpit has been near to non-existent and what has appeared has been very poor, even slapdash. It’s been my experience that if we in the cockpit are receiving poor service, you can almost guarantee the pax are receiving similar poor service. However, I have to say the opposite is usually the case, but unfortunately, the examples where it’s poor are more frequent lately.

It’s not human nature to write about what pleases you, only what upsets you. I have to say that the vast majority of EK cabin crew do a damn fine job and deserve the many awards they have received. But they are let down by the few, and not just the few poor performers on the line, but the few supervisors who have allowed those few poor performers on the line to remain in place. A good Purser is worth his or her weight in gold. It’s been my experience that a good Purser can get good results even out of an inexperienced crew. But it seems to me it can be damn hard work for the very good ones on some occasions, and for too long now, IFS Management have put two or three people back on the line after Pursers have reported incidents that should have merited at the very least, a huge kick in the tail and perhaps termination for the crewmember involved. But the faces re-appear on the line because of (I suspect) the very reasons TD has taken the rather drastic step he did in sacking his immediate subordinates – the ‘habibi factor’.

[gee wizz]

i was thinking....if i want to write my resignation letter and i HAVEN'T GOT A CCM anymore....then who the hell do i address it to?

[Quod Boy]

Gee Whizz,send it to Santa.

Just off to take the Porsche for a spin,then 18 holes, a few G and Ts,at the club,a taxi to DOSC then perhaps an evening sail on my new boat.

Cheers,and dont forget to wear the right colour lipstick on your next flight.

Childish? Me ? Never?

Have fun guys(and girls) off flying soon.

Quod Boy.

[Walking Johnny]

Hello Boys and Gurlz!

I must say that this is an interesting development for EK.

Although I left many years ago, it is with much fond memories that I remember the time I spent in Dubai and the fun we had there or downroute.

I am unsure about the only CCS mentionned here and that is because she was truly devoted and not necessarily popular for the sake of popularity but because she did her job right. The others, got more than they deserved.

I do wonder though why some others notorious for their lack of productivity did not get the boot first. Everyone know who these are.

Over the years, I have watched EK decline in service, crew attitude has become one of total indiffernce, both on-board and off.

TD and DG are accountable for the results and perhaps it was time for decisions to be made, the same I waited for when I was there but never happened.

For the ones with a career still ahead of you, this a chance for promotions unlike in my time where only certain individuals were selected by the same who were let go now on the basis of how low they scooped or how often the made tea in the office for their CCSs'.

It is also a chance to introduce the dynamics that were missing until now.

Good luck and enjoy the flying, in a few years all that will remain are the good memories and bitter moments like these will be forgotten it is now your chance to make EK what it could be!

[mascarpone]

Hey Quad Boy, you cheese head!


Want some cheese, what did you say? I can't hear you!

What?

You suck what?

Can't make out whether he is saying the fuel feed of his nissan or taking it deep in the sun!

Must be hard being an F/O!

Never mind, I can't hear you! Call me in the office tomorrow!

[desert queen]

Boys, most of you have it all wrong - you refer to mascarpone as "she" no woman even on a bad hair day could be as b*%chy as that. The only other person that comes close is Harold my hairdresser, maybe I should introduce them to each other and they could walk hand in hand happily into the sunset.

Sadly standards have noticeably dropped over the last year, but there are still a lot of cabin crew that are doing a sterling job, and I say a BIG thanks to them. I appreciate the hard work that goes into making it an enjoyable flight for passengers and us family members of the crew. :ok:

[Oblaaspop]

I agree, I always did assume cheese features was a guy (in the loosest possible terms obviously).

I didn't realise we were employing 8 year olds in the cabin!! My 5 year old daughter could write a more cohearent post than that so there, ner ner ner ner ner!!

A word of advise old chap, dont get into a slagging match with people who are a)more intelligent b)far funnier 3)much sharper and f)have a far better grasp of the English language than you, you just cant win, and you will resort to writing silly childish posts like your one above.

Now, go stand in the corner with your dunces hat on and lets hear no more about it, or we'll have to call your parents in!!
:{

[Quod Boy]

Oh dear oh dear,

Mascarpone you have some serious issues Im not a trick cyclist but I suspect you would present a bagfull of problems.

Your rant is wrong on so many counts try spelling(copying) correctly for a start it is Quod not Quad(Latin).

It is hard being an FO these days,but like us all they will swop seats in due course, but to afford my comfortable lifestyle I am a captain and have been for some considerable time.The majority of our FOs are excellent I thank my lucky stars you are not one.

Unlike you our FOs are PILOTS and this is a PILOTS Rumour site you are a guest and all guests are welcome you however need to take your Prozac and evaluate your anger..You have overstayed and really should be on less demanding site.

Sesame street or perhaps some colouring in,dot to dot perhaps?

Now Im off to fly big,shiny toys with RR engines and you my son/dear will never be able to comment on an intelligent level with me or any other EK pilot until you too hold a licence and do the job.When you do,most will read and listen then you will earn respect.At present you earn none.

Even if not an EK pilot make articulate valid comments dont rant.

It is little wonder EK cabin crew morale is in the state it is with the likes of you and I am starting to hoist on board quite what a task"TD" has on his hands now I know who "TD" is.

Now,before you respond in your next rant think about the above and if its not intelligent or witty or humourous or valid???

FOXTROT OSCAR.(Thats phonetic,not Latin just in case)

QB:cool: :cool: :cool:

[ruserious]

Quod, harsh but fair

Mascarpone, quod erat demonstrandum you have truly demonstrated what you are!
Just not sure if its the weakest link or the missing link :hmm:

[Mr. Ree]

Maybe, just maybe, the time has come for Pilots in this airline (EK) to STOP playing Mr. CRM Nice Guy and take a stand against those contemptuous cabin crew who don't know their place!

(Before I create a revolt, if you're pleasant and well mannered or if you didn't notice the word those was underlined, this does not apply to you)
:ok:

[Global Nomad]

Ironic how the wheel turns.

About 2 months ago, I made a post in response to TD's letter to Purser's. I ended my post with the following question

Who wants to support indifferent cabin crew with an attitude?

My question/statement still stands and it's encouraging to see that some, who questioned my motives, are now in support of the statement.

Before anyone jumps in the air screaming nonsensical rubbish;

1. There is no implication in my question that the terminology "indifferent" applies to all cabin crew, far from it.
2. If you chose to paraphrase the question to read "Who wants to support indifferent flight deck with an attitude?" Don't bother, but feel free to start another thread.

There will always be individual employees in any large organisation that need to be retrained or relegated. TD has been tasked with changing IFS direction and part of that change will involve dealing with (because no one else has) inept crew managers.

The word on the street from many crew is that they are pleased to see the changes and fear nothing themselves because they are not indifferent and have the right attitude. I am going to continue to support cabin crew in their role, as undoubtedly many other flight deck will because that's part of our job.

Mr Ree is right to a point. You just can't be Mr Nice Guy with everybody but fortunately for us, it's obvious who deserves our support and who doesn't. I don't think we should throw away CRM for a moment, but we are all guilty of only pursuing the most blatant of behaviour. There comes a time where CRM has been exhausted on an individual and they need to be passed to the next level up. Having reliable cabin crew management will be a great asset for all concerned and personally I can't wait for the dust to settle because I believe that we will all be better for it.

[mascarpone]

Gentlemen;

I would be interested in your definition of CRM, or for that matter your definition of manners.

It is obvious from these posts that none of you have an idea of who or what I am, whether I am crew or not etc...

It is in my humble opinion a clear indication that you should remain in the F/D and look after what you are hired to do and that is to fly the plane.

How you handle your HR and personal relations is your own problem, but how you treat the crew is incumbent upon your responsability as a captain.

Whether you use your CRM skills or not is not entirely upto you but relates to the outcome of the operation that you are paid to carry out for EK.

So please do not BS anyone here with your superior jargon full of S**T, because it is not what makes you a better captain or a descent individual, nor will your ATPL buy you the respect of anyone, it is more about treating people the way you would like to be treated. Those of you who think that you can drop CRM will end up like the yougoslave captain who was dobbed at the end by his own crew for obvious low CRM.

And note please that no one is looking for Mr. Nice guy, just half decent people with a proper response.

Take good care of yourself boys and for latin I reply in another language:

Yaghamissou!

[Alphaprot]

I would be interested in your definition of CRM, or for that matter your definition of manners.
CRM is variously defined as as a comprehensive system for improving human and crew performance. Course requirements include, threat and error management, leadership, communication, decision making, situation awareness, stress and fatigue management, company safety culture and organisational factors.
One thing you can be very sure of is that CRM is not defined as having manners or being nice. While it can definitely be argued that those are fine attributes for anyone wanting to get the best out of their crew, however, as a leader, keeping discipline is also required.
It is in my humble opinion a clear indication that you should remain in the F/D and look after what you are hired to do and that is to fly the plane. Well, mascarpone I guess you should read the Flight Ops Manual and every other manual that is authorised by the regulator, then you would actually find out and maybe understand what a pilots role actually is. Otherwise we would be operating the airline under the auspices of your humble opinion

[Lethalfart]

Humble opinions or not, the arrogance of pilots seems to be what stands out in these posts.

Do you have an arrogance licence with your CPL boys?

Who do you think you are, the thighs of Jupiter! Get off your high horses!

Mascarpones' posts show you off in broad day light with an attitude like no other! And you expect to be treated like pilots?

Hmm! interesting!

[mascarpone]

Oh! Alphatrot, can i be your friend? Oh pelease! You are so great and wonderful, I can't sleep at night you are sooooo Intelligent! Wow!

Can I come and stay with you in Guantanamo in your luxury villa?

I would love so much to hang around flight deck......

Yes, yes, yes, say yes!!


Oh! Pelease! I just would not know what to do without flight deck around, you guys are so smart and I am always admiring the stripes on your shoulders and the scrambled eggs on your cap..........

Geez, to read your comment one would think that the world would stop if you did not honour us with your bashfull company.

Thank God you are not writing company policy mate, otherwise EK would have been in the gutter ages ago with your antiques.

You might look smart in the uniform, but anyone eating those discusting sandwiches and green bananas must really be hungry or just a monkey!

But mind you monkeys can fly planes too, they even flew rockets in the late sixties, well before many of you were walking!

No no one knows anything about CRM we wait for words to drop from your mouth like pearls out of my bum.

CRM is not your limited to F/D alone, unless you have forgotten quickly CC are also involved..

"Supporting Mission Accomplishment Through Enhanced Aircrew Performance "

But you are still thinking that its incumbent to your sole role/responsability on-board and no-one elses!

Wrong!


Say you can\'t speak!

Is that piece of cheese stuck in your throat?

Gag!

[turtleneck]

it's obvious that this is not about what one side has or is.
it's about what some on the other side are not.
so let them bark miserably, the caravan just passes by.

[Sheikh Nickabouk]

Oh yes turtleneck, I have a suggestion, pull your head in, to your shell!

Touchy are we when matters get sensitive?

Absolutely the dogs bark while the caravan passes!

[mascarpone]

Errr!

Maybe, just maybe, the time has come for Pilots in this airline (EK) to STOP playing Mr. CRM Nice Guy and take a stand against those contemptuous cabin crew who don't know their place!

Ok I have a deal for you Mr. Ree, you stop being Mr. Nice guy and we don't come into the flight deck or feed you, please ask your wify to pack lunch for a 7 day slip....Sure!

She won't even do it for a turn around!

Now what do you prefer the sandwiches or the wife's lunch?

I've seen the lot of you rattling the change in your pocket, it's about the only time you have money. The rest of the time you speak about it and let others pay!

Feeding you lot on the flight deck is like trying to pry a piece of dead meat from the clasp of a croc!

[mascarpone]

Since we are on the subject let's speak of the stinginess of EK flight deck.

And so they want the crew to honour them with their presence?

Who pays the bill?

I would think that it can be shared, but in most cases we have guys who escape the bill by putting forward all sorts of excuses.....

Have no change, did not order that, can you pay for me now, I will pay you later, etc........

yea right and my grandma was Churchill!

[Cerberus]

Rimmer must be crew coz he or she is travelling around Southern and Central America. First Belize, then Easter Island and now off to the Amazon.

Best definition of CRM I have heard was from one of our Captains: "You're the crew, your my resource and I'll manage you!"

I await the reply of Mr Rimmer from Red Dwarf. Do a search and you'll know what I mean. :ok:

[mascarpone]

You surprise me with your knowledge of sexual practices, I thought most of you were bent like a 9bob note!

But not to worry as long as the red Dwarf has got big hairy balls, everything will be A OK!

Off to the Haufbrauhaus (it's the Oktoberfest in case you've forgotten!) to catch a real mass of beer, bring everyone along and don't forget to bring your money to pay the bill!

For once!


Timmmmmmmmmmmmberrrrrrr!!!!!!

:O :} :\ :E :8 :ok: :=

[Cerberus]

Mr Rimmer,

I have been with EK a while now and I go out for dinner just about every time I go on a layover. I reckon on about 25% of occasions CC bail on the bill particularly if they are male and from the eastern end of the med. On another 25%, despite the fact that the flight deck have picked up the wine tab I hear a debate about who had the prawn cocktail. I am prepared to bet my massive pilot's pension, porsche, ferrari, club membership, hot air baloon and private jet that the flight deck subsidise the crew's layovers and not the other way around.

[mascarpone]

Hi red Dwarf;

With hairy balls,

I think you pre-empted the question, I was not asking F/D to answer, let the CC come back on this one!

Then you get your chance to speak. Everyone their turn please.



But thanks for letting us know of your ferrari, pension etc... until your post I was under the impression that all F/D were poor.



but while you are there, can you walk back to the end of the queue so others get a chance?

Thanks

[Cerberus]

You do not surprise me with your lack of knowledge of anything to do with current affairs, pop culture, sexual practices, terrestial bodies or airlines.

So you think Rimmer has something to do with a red dwarf satisfying you desire to be a total arse? Only a very sick, very sad person could come to that conclusion. Better go to the pub before I get sucked into your vortex my obscurantism suffering friend. Enjoy the tapping and insults, watch out you don't get RSI.:ok:

[Cerberus]

If you wanted the cabin crew to answer, why didn't you post on the new PCrune website? Can you define irony by the way coz you obviously can't spot it!

[mascarpone]

Yea! thanks for the advice I'll keep a look out for both RSI's and FBI's too!

As long as I am on TCAS, and my ILS is calibrated, Don't see how I can miss the runway, but like they say:

You never know!

Prost!

[mascarpone]

Didn't think Irony came into play in an aluminium tube, but you do have a point!

However, anything with a battery is considered dangerous!

And if you started answering this thread, it is only because you feel concerned and if you do it also means you are guilty!

[Mr. Ree]

Mascara-prone-prick,

Must be hard being down the back pushing a trolley handing out meals when you know the "monkeys" are flying the plane. You must have a lot of trust in monkeys to put your life int their hands.

By the way, here's a dare, why don't you push your luck and ask for the L1 position on my next flight. Then try not "feeding" us for 21 mins. I'll kick your arse so hard you won't have sex for 6 months! Oh! Pelease! I just would not know what to do without flight deck around, you guys are so smart and I am always admiring the stripes on your shoulders and the scrambled eggs on your cap..........

Geez, to read your comment one would think that the world would stop if you did not honour us with your bashfull company.

By the way, don't know of ANY commercial airplanes flying without pilots. However, I know of A LOT of commercial airplanes flying without cabin crew!

(Once again, this rant is aimed directly at mascaraqueen, to most other EK cabin crew, being decent, these comments don't apply)
:ok:

[mascarpone]

Can I have head!


on my beer please!

What were you saying red dwarf?

Ah! I hear you better now, you are the new EK mascot for F/D, good on you it was about time ID was replaced!

[Mr. Ree]

You said you were going to the Oktoberfest 30 mins ago, so go!

By now EVERYONE knows you're a total waste of space.

4-holes, evict this chop! Please!

[mascarpone]

I am there already mate, modern technology does wonders I can follow the threads form my little PDA and reply, maybe you should get yourself one of these, they are quite handy, if you know how to use them of course! I can't see any F/D where are you boys?oops!

Just farted but I guess that's a fax!

Can you send one of your F/O's to clean up please someone spilt a beer on the floor, it must be one of those captains you know they can't handle drink!

You can't take these guys out I tell you!

[turtleneck]

no, no fart, you just lost your brain, for what little size it had.

[Bart O'Lynn]

This thread brings a tear to my eye. It used to be that it needed an outsider to wind up the EK guys into a frenzy, now you are fighting amongst yourselves, and showing inclusive CRM traits by encouraging the cabin crew to join in. Now thats progress.
KEEP DISCOVERING

[mensaboy]

In my opinion, the occasional conflict or lack of understanding boils down to certain individuals who hail from the eastern med.. They poison, taint and obscure all with which they come in contact. It starts from day one of CC training with the not so subtle jabs at aircrew and continues on a daily basis throughout each flight and layover.
I have recently made it a point to never partake of extracuricular activities if one of these low-lifes is present. Shockingly......... NOT......... the layovers have now become a joy and good time.
My latest was a fantastic pairing where we were visited frequently by the crew, had great layovers and generally respected each other. Its amazing how nice, friendly, funny and intelligent CC can be when not being coerced and harassed by these individuals. Coincidentally not one of these smarmy bastards was on the crew (amazing but true)

Someone mentioned earlier the fear of being labelled a cockpit floozy. What a ridiculous and absurd concept, promoted and embellished by these same slimey, loud mouth, obnoxious men. When will EK learn that a 5% demographic of these idiots .... is 5% too high.
And they stay here forever!!!. Harassing and abusing each new course of CC, as is their 'right' as seniors and pursers.
Never met a more despicable nationality of human beings in my entire life. And this is not a generalization, it is 98% valid.

Don't go crying racist to me, it took me far too long to accept the reality of these people, as i tend towards not generalizing.
Smiling assasins, nice to your face, slag you behind your back at the first opportunity.

The best thing EK could ever do with respect to crew harmony, service and general moral of this company, is to fire each and every one of them tomorrow.

[gee wizz]

i've gone right off you lot.

[Marcellus Wallace]

Helmreich said -

"While effective teamwork is clearly important, it is not the primary goal of CRM training.

The following is a more accurate representation of current, effective CRM programmes: CRM consists of the effective utilisation of all available human, informational, and equipment resources toward the goal of safe and efficient flight.

More specifically, it is the active process employed by crewmembers to identify existing and potential threats and to develop, communicate, and implement plans and actions to avoid or mitigate perceived threats.

CRM also supports the avoidance, management, and mitigation of human errors. The secondary benefits of effective CRM programmes are improved morale and enhanced efficiency of operations."

My dua sen worth....

[babyblu]

M-boy has got it right. I'm stuck down the back at the bouncy end and always try make it up to the flight deck, but sometimes it is difficult to get past the pit bulls at the front.

Anyways - heard anything about the CCM's. I ain't got one.

[mascarpone]

For one thank you Marcellus for giving us your worthy note on CRM, at least one who is pragmatic and efficient in analysing these threads.

And rightly said that it does not take much to wind up EK F/D, you think that the world stops in the nebula of the ops retinue and should feel obliged to you for treating us with a slight bit of consideration. I have you cheap lot around for dinner and seen the ones who drop their trousers collapsing on sofas etc.....

And you want respect, I would suggest you first behave like a captain treat your crew with respect and you will get the same in return with perhaps no one spitting in your coffee 1+1 in your special starbucks mug!

But I could have not said it better:


In my opinion, the occasional conflict or lack of understanding boils down to certain individuals who hail from the eastern med..

Please notify us of the opening of the BNP branch so we can join you in for a geek hunt!

If your comment did not sound an alarm anywhere alse it tells me of your lack of confidence in confronting and dealing with "Eastern med" types.

Now that also tells me how good your CRM is and how reliable you are as a leader in manageing your ressource to maintain safe and efficient flights.

By saying so you've already identified a threat where it does not exist.

Boy you should be sent back to school to do a bit of history for you to realise how close you are to infringing social and political etiquete with such comments, that is if you haven't done so already.

Worse though is that you live in the middle East and expect everyone to behave according to your norms......Well well!

But then to add:
Its amazing how nice, friendly, funny and intelligent CC can be when not being coerced and harassed by these individuals

So in mensaboy's head crew are simply stupid!


If anything a blatant lack of culture, manners and education! But then again what would you expect from an OZ farmer who's been dustcropping all his life b4 he came to DXB.

Eat your sandwich eat! And choke on it as far as I care.

You will onlny get what you deserve from the Midlle Easterners and I am sure that they are giving you your change back.

And by the way I waited for some of you to appear and celebrate with me the Oktoberfest but no one pitched up, probably short on cash hey?

[Sheikh Nickabouk]

Either the sandwiches are indeed very tasty, or lambasting flight deck is chocking on the same.

Eat eat! You want some Hommos?

............................................................ ................

No Comment!

[mascarpone]

Captain Quod Boy awaiting his pick up in the Springs (AKA Guantanamo) Should be arriving in 5.


http://www.humorbug.com/fpics/f_humorbug_ad27c03563.jpg

Oh Captain yes, yes, show us how much power you have.....




An according to Men is a boy

http://poster-posters.com/pics/ww2/german/frauent.jpg

Some of you boys even got fired over crew sandwiches! Cheap cheap cheap!

[Oblaaspop]

I guess nobody pitched up because you are a ****.

Just a hunch!!:E

[gee wizz]

babyblu - nope, not heard a sausage about the ccms.

I haven't got one either.

I was perfectly happy with the one i had b4 so don't want a new one.

think EK must have realised that the people fired were too good for this company.

anyway, thought this airline was supposed to be multi-cultural - how come the office/management is now mostly british??? huh?

and you wait....the new ones will be british too. bet ya.

[9876]

how come the office/management is now mostly british

Do you work for EK Gee Whiz?

Last count the remaining CCM nationality make up
1 Lebanese
1 Sri Lankan
1 Indian
1 French
2 UAE nationals
2 English
2 Irish

Unless my map of the world is wrong, there is only 2 there that fall under the category of British!

If you want to hand in your resignation Gee Whiz, why don't you pass it to TD directly and discuss your concerns & how upset you are... or would you rather hide behind text messaging and bleating anonymously.

I can understand why you would not want another CCM .... could it be you are afraid that they will actually address your "issues" with you?

Just get on with it or leave, it is your choice. But the bleating has become very tiresome :(

[Warlock2000]

This is how I picture the cabin crew:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a141/MerlinWarlock/hooters-air.jpg

marscarpone: now listen carefully son, I'm sure you do a fantastic job as a sandwich dispenser. Stick to what you know and let the big people get on with their jobs!
:ok:

Run along now and go play in the Shk Z Rd traffic!

[mascarpone]

Hey Mr. Camelot "Son";

Will you please hold my hand I am shaking!!!!! Brrrr! you scare me with your tone! I feel so threatened!

Been there done that on shk Z road even got the Tea Shirt (blop)

Pleased to see that you at least have some taste.

She is not chinese is she?

I suggest you do one thing, point your index up in the air and stick it in your left eye all the way to the elbow.
Now look at the photo again, that should give you an outlook on our crew!



And to reply:

2 UAE nationals

its actually 3 and I would add not exactly the most efficient but however untouchable by TD's book. I wonder which performance scale they use for this lot, most likely on a negative curve where the X and Y are below zero and on a downward steep curve.


1Sri Lankan
1 Indian
1 French
2 English
2 Irish


An indian useless git

An English MCC who was previously managing baggage handlers.

And the Irish who was sick the whole time she was on the line and never flew and taken directly as CCM.

And you forgot the palestinian pimp.

What a dynamic team.

How would you like as pilots to be managed by a catering officer and a cabin cleaner?

Don't bother to answer its on the cards next, you had a bus driver before so why not?

What you are showing here as pilots is your inabillity to manage people without resorting to threats!

Keep discovering!

[SpootNICK]

Would someone PLEASE put Mascarpone out of his/her misery............this bickering is driving me nuts!

[mascarpone]

Gee wiz can you enable your pm service pls

To the others, dry as a bone!

The truth hurts.......

Whether I am mid eastern or not is not the issue, I would like to see you master the idioms of any other language other than yours like mid easterners manage yours, the truth is you are so ignorant most of you limit yourselves to the vulgar and derogatory terms that are taught you by a pick up of the street.

The truth is was it not for EK you lot would be still somwhere in the boonies of OZ or somwhere in the realm of the Magna carta, but you got your only break here to a "form" of civilisation.

Anywhere else without the facilities at hand here and you would not last longer than a day. And you still moan about Dubai!

It is very much a paradox that somhow society did not start in the UK or in OZ but actually in the mid east, perhaps the day you realise that, you will understand why your little minds cannot cope with the with of mideasterners and their ways.

The proof:

How many of you are doing mid eastern girls?
None!
How many lebos doing WASPies?
All!

It is also likely that before you befriended her, your wife or girlfriend was probably doing an MMD trip with a BHW.


Now tell me the proof is not in the pudding!

While you were still living in caves history was being made here and still is.

Like it or not mid east is not your choice, it's a fact and like it or not it's here to stay with its people.

Because along the way, they will always show you the way the only one you know: The stick!

Now quod and all the boys, go watch jerry Springer tonight, I think batman maybe on, your IQ won't allow you to understand anything beyond that, forget the politics and GW, because you probably think that is the language that should prevail and you would all probably join him on a crusade if you could.

Why not ask Mr. Hilton to join in his rubber shoes?

Or put yourself out of your misery and for once put that fan in your spare room to good use: Hang urselves to these words. and make sure you put a plastic liner so we dont have to clean your feceas after you.

[Sheikh Nickabouk]

sandwiches anyone?

Hommos or tabouleh?

We've got cheese sambousek for the dimwits!

:E

[4HolerPoler]

go watch jerry Springer tonight - hell no, this thread is streets ahead of anything I've seen on Springer. Keep it nice. Sort of nice will do.

4HP

[dingding]

Tjeez....

What's going on here?? Looks like the Jerry Springer show already, no thanks to some of your doing Mascarpone!!

Not sure whether you are troubled by pms or just have a very bitter, generalising attitude...?

As far as I'm concerned CRM stands for:

Courtesy
Respect
Manners

And by the looks of it, neither Flight Deck, nor Cabin Crew seem to be displaying a lot of those qualities around here!!

Lets not forget we're supposed to be looking out for eachoter and not at eachoter with angry and bitter eyes!!

To have that safe and efficient flight, we can't do it without eachother! A lot of us do, both flight deck and cabin crew, thank god for that!! But the fact that the company is not at it's best right now, is there. We should be pulling together and behave like adults, instead of all this childish behaviour. I, maybe in my ignorant way of thinking, thought I was working with at least 90% adults....

The fact that you need to vent, fair enough, but slacking eachother off like this is not gonna help!!

Now, to get back to the subject of this forum,
I've heard the fired ccm's are appealing their case!
Anyone got any news on that?

[mascarpone]

dinding


You are on the mark, funny though how a thread con be misinterpreted and how some shoot of the hip.

I would expect the courtesy and consideration to the concern raised over the recent events in EK.

It seems though that there is only one school of thought, that of the F/D althoough crew are mostly affected by this.

I am trying to understand what their input really translates to considering they know very little of what happened and the history behind.

No one either seems to read the small print:

I do not disagree with TD albeit for one CCM who I know to be the best one there. People like to drag the husband in the equation but I refute the fact that he has influenced any of her decision making.

As crew we are together and certainly hope that we look after one another. I am disturbed though by the blatant bigotry of some of the F/D and although not ME myself I find their attitude below childish and it hides for me a deep resentment that is wholly due to their inadequacy at facing and handling other cultures not just MEs'.

Now maybe it is good that everyone sees that varying opinions do exist on the matter and everyone is entitled to his own! Some pilots think not and believe that their views must prevail!!!!!!

So basically the other 12-14-16 on board have not got a mind of their own, and if it is the case then surely they do not need crew to make any decisions as and where required in extreme circumstances as in med cases etc... then revert back to F/D for consultaion and support. And this is where CRM is important not just to be nice but also to build trust amongst the crew with defined accountability and roles. Some here seem to think that there is only one buck and it stops FWD of #***

There is also a recent trend where F/D are blatently displaying their assy manners on-board, racism and the lot and this is totally unacceptable particularly when the A/C is not confined to one nationoality but like the rest of EK to a multitude.

Cheers for bringing good sense.

:ok:

Cerberus, quod, desert whine, go suck a lemon!

:ooh:

Is that how it looks now?

[Oblaaspop]

Childish behavior? He started it, so there!!!

BTW 'Eastern Med'? Whats wrong with Cypriots??

[mascarpone]

Oblaspop

Get sense mate youa re a cra.p stirrer and your buck stops here!

Go see if I am at ops!

[mach-hog]

:cool: Mascarpone:

... keeping you on this thread is depriving some village of an idiot...

[Sheikh Nickabouk]

Lahm biajin anyone hot, hot, hot.

Alhas tizi!

[mascarpone]

mach log

Yes by keeping you responding to my threads it certainnly is!

Village idiot!

Have you seen the Village dog?

:E
Perfect example of people who can't handle the truth!

Go see Gibbons mate he'll sort you out, I am in no doubt that these threads are being watched higher up and that your IP's are being monitored and you will all soon hear the sound of the bell calling you to pay your respects to the crew as one should and not act in this blatantly arrogant manner.

Most of you F/D have displayed the most cunning and lowest form of concern for your crew the ones who act as your eyes and ears on your flights.

I hear expressions like: "We fly your butts" and the sorts yea yea
We've seen you lot come out as quickly as you came in, and the proof is in the posts of other EK pilots trying to get out of the bond, not in the attitude of the cabin crew.

[dingding]

From personal experience it's only a few that have that "problem", Mascarpone.

And in their defence, I have to say that a lot of cabin crew have preconceived ideas of FD. Which is not fair. A lot of them are happily married, kids and all and if you chat to them about them ask for pictures, they really like that as well. I'm just saying this to erase this idea that people have about cockpit crew always wanting to get the crew in their sacks. It's simply not true.

As for TD's decision, I believe some were in the right position being ccm and others not. This only for the small amount of experience I have, dealing with some of them. A few, I truely cannot comprehend, till this day, why they were sacked.
(Then again, DO WE REALLY KNOW WHAT GOES ON IN THE OFFICE?? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Then also, what I'm actually pissed off about, is that officially, their names have not been released, their names have been spread by sms's and rumour talk..

I don't think that was very professional. At least the crew affected should have been approached, either by a note in their dropfile or email.

Any way, I do believe that a large amount of our FD are decent blokes and open to a nice chat without any intimidation or their stripes weighing too heavy.

It's like with the cabin crew: Its the few rotten apples that spoil it for the rest!!!!

I take every day/flight as it comes and if I bump into one of those rotten apples, it's a challenge, like managing your cabin crew.
I just think to myself then, that they either gathering their period or didn't have sex when they wanted it.

I do the same when approaching one of the rotten apples of our cc's. It makes me smile and makes things a lot easier to deal with!

So Mascarpone, take it easy man! it's bad for your heart and working only against you! Especially in a forum like this!

[Oblaaspop]

You know what, I very nearly put this guy on my 'ignore' list about 5 pages back, but I'm so glad I didn't. I'm actually enjoying this thread a great deal, if only to see what moronic, badly written jibberish he comes out with next....

Bravo Cheeseballs, keep up the good work.:zzz:

PS, you mention that you'll bump into me in the Ops Centre, I've worked out who you are..........Your the guy that cleans the bog aren't you!:yuk:

[dingding]

Yeah, Oblaaspop,

He might have started, but some of the replies were on the same level of intelligence.

That's what I was referring to.

[mascarpone]

Ding Ding

Well good you see as well that we have opinions and that we can debate and discuss them, we are all grown up and I understand that some F/D have a difficult time.

We carry their children and families all the time, we look after them and we make it a point to ensure they also have as pleasant a flight as possible. This there is no doubt about it and it is with pleasure that we will welcome all new comers to this big family.

I just don't like the ranting about ME and the lot, this perspective of some is way out of line and certainly raises an issue over how effective CRM is today.

While I empathise, this issue over the CCM's I agree with you all the way, if you read my previous posts you will see that what we are gathering on the line and off is crew who are totally destabilised and like you they want to know.

I also agree with you that none of this was pro.

I would not like this to happen to anyone including quod and the rest.

This said, I like to share my opinions and I do so in the belief that we can debate and not shot down for every word as if the only ones who are right are the pilots, if we cannot speak on the www where else can we do it?

Oblaspop

How did you know?

[dingding]

Mascarpone,

There are ways to say things..
I don't believe calling people names and bashing is gonna get anyone anywhere.

That's all I'm saying.

[Oblaaspop]

I know dingding, there was actually a level of irony (read humour) in my post.

Amazingly though that last post of his was actually quite balanced and measured......I prefer the other side, bring back the vitriol!!!!!!

[dingding]

Oblaaspop!!!!


Behave!!!!

Hahah

[mascarpone]

Nai oblaspop!

Behave moro behave
:}

[Sheikh Nickabouk]

IP tunneling services available please call OPS for details!

:E :E :E

[mascarpone]

Ding ding great posts thanks for the input.

Desert whine; get some cipralex.

Squid boy; get a hat with holes in it, for anyone who thinks like you must be a cepahlopodian!:E

Ree; oh yes enlighten us with your 90degree perspective while Squid's head is stuck to the windshield!

And all the crew, you are doing a great job keep it up and don't let anything faze you.

See everyone at longs on the fourth!

[Oblaaspop]

[mascarpone]

Gring, Gring, Gring!

Hello this is EK clinic, time to take your cipralex Desert whine.

Ashamed of being a trolley dolley?

Oh! Bashfull you! bet you can't even make yourself a cup of coffee without sounding the fire alarm! Let alone wipe your own arse!

But then again like all the rest you are ASS-U-ming!

And I see nothing wrong with being one.

You don't seem to like the mid east or its people.

Leave!

You'll be happier elswhere! back home to your dustcropping!

[mascarpone]

Take your pay and your dumb blondes with you mate, we've done blondes, done any middle eastern girls? I doubt it she would spit you out before you even think of it!

Your lot are not considered men where I come from. We usually say manyouk or khaneeth! Of course there are other words but not worth my time to go through each one of them.

Just note that I can travel unlike your statement and like it or not probably have the same passport as you and I did not heve to sleaze to get it.

But then again you love ASS-U-ming so I leave you to masturbate your mind further and see what you hatch for us next from that little brain of yours.

You said goats?
You would not happen to be one of those velcro clad sheep shaggers now would you? Its a bit more difficult with goats I hear velcro doesn't work on straight hair, I heard from other New Zealanders that curly bobs and a hair dryer will do the job some of them even have different grade velcor to accomodate the change! Don't have the details though.

And my younger cousins send their best regards, they don't know you though, never heard of desert whine! they are more into Proper wine real stuff if you know what I mean, not the cheap boxes you buy downroute.

Captain! Anything else?

[mascarpone]

Well i do have a real job, difference being I do work with women because in today's world most men work with women unlike a particular profession which has yet to open up to them.

So when you are not readin the paper, are you counting the hairs up your cockpit mate's arse?

If so let me know I'll get you some extras hot towels and tissue with the sandwiches and banana, just in case it happens to be a training captain!

Tell you what you will never be the same again!

Keep discovering!

Anything else captain?

[BYMONEK]

Jeeze............imagine the fun to be had if you two get to fly together. :rolleyes:

Often wondered what these cheese & wine evenings were about!

[mascarpone]

I can't wait!

It's beyond me this humour is just taking the best of me!

Say desert whine!

You busy?

Do you need more towels?

Do you want the mars bar?

[mascarpone]

Desert whine

You're so very tragic in so many ways.

Are you a samaritan? Thank you for your concern though I am touched! So much so I need to take a quick Cr@p! better now!


Oh! Hamlet Hamlet! Where art thou!

I play with mine harp just for you!

And you stick your finger in your eye

all the way to your elbow through!

:E :E :E :E

Your crystal ball is not calibrated mate suggest you go to the souk and sort it.

My fellow nationals are fine which ones though?

Mid 30's?

Meet a pilot.....so life revolves around pilots?

Why don't you get a serious job so that you can spend more time with your children and family, sad really the greed particularly if you have another source of income and you are still flying, you should really think about that for a minute!
Does your wife miss you or is RT or one of the mexicans looking after her while you are away?

Anonymous......No have you seen someone post their name on here?

Seriously I think you need to get your cipralex mate or stop playing with yourself
It's obviously affecting your eyesight, check the palm of your hand if you have a hair growing in there you've been doing it too much.

Attacking pilots? No not really but the likes of you who bring shame to their profession with their arrogant attitude!

No! really are you reading yourself?

Anyway I am off for a drink you coming? DIMC

[nixisfix]

4HP, why do you allow this non-sense going on? I agree that everyone should be allowed their opinion but this thread has clearly been hijacked...

[Ahad Adump]

Hi nix
Lovely spot you got there, saw some pics. Good on you.

Agree, but maybe marzy is what pprune needed.
A sad billy-no-mate that spends all his energy on this site. While most of us flash thru, this creature spends hours, look at those log-on times.
Maybe potty trained to early and now the world is copping it big time.

Regards to wife and kids.

[SpootNICK]

No, I think I must agree with Nixisfix on this one........

4HP - Please do us a favour and stop this nonsense.

The thread is off topic, has clearly been hijacked and is becoming increasingly offensive. (the cheese-head is responsible for most of it)

Thank you,

SN

[max AB]

This is fun,it reminds me of the good old days of Jet Blast where abuse was an art form. Smegma just misses his mother thats all.

[mascarpone]

I'll do you guys a huge favour and bid everyone farewell on this thread.

My point was made.


Thanks everyone for allowing me to prove my point.

:ok:

Bye!

[Cerberus]

You had a point?!?!?

[mascaprone]

Ok, so you guys want to know why I hate flight deck....

(My thesaurus and spell chick not working now so please excuse my grammir)

Here is the reason: I always want to be a pilot because I think pilot's get all the girls. Where I come from this is VERY important! I don't like ME girls because they know all our cheesy lines, better I try with European girls. I put TOO MUCH gel in my hair and learn some REALLY SMOOTH lines like: " Your eyes are so beautiful, the stars they fall from the sky and land on your eyes". This worked pretty good until everybody use same line.

I try to be a pilot but chief pilot say my is IQ 75 and this is not enough. At school 75 was a good percentage - so what is the problem!? OK so I become a trolley dolly instead and now I hate pilots.

Go suck eggs.
Eat a Mars bar!
I spit in your coffee!

Ok, Now I finnish! I eat some cheese!?? Then I go to DIMC for a beer!

I take a taxi, because all you b@stard pilots have Porsche.
I have Porsche key ring, I try this new line to get girls....

[chicken_or_fish]

SO....... any more news on the CCS firings/shake up?

[mascarpone]

Hey Mascaprone

Quod, you just love insults can't have enough can you?

Think everyone is daft like you not to see the handle?

You hate lebos cause they are too good for you!

Lucky for you I am not middle eastern, I would have otherwise huunted you down the airstairs.

Good on you mate you just show how little understanding you have of the world around you.

Carry on I am laughing!

You and lady M are obviously on the same agenda!

Anything else captain?

[Sheikh Nickabouk]

Bouza 3a koussa anyone?

The insults have started again!

Another cheese head cum rocket scientist is on-board.

Welcome on-board Macaprone, must have really cogitated your meninges to find this name.

F/D do lack in imagination that's true.

Lady M.

Black stockings please and stilettos!

Not all shaved I hope, Mascaprone has got used to coarse hair from his training captain's arse!

[4HolerPoler]

Sorry folks, I've been working - this thread has degenerated to the extent that I have no recourse other than to close it. As soon as I have some time I shall be reviewing individual posts with a view to exercising a little discipline.

4HP

[4HolerPoler]

Due to popular demand (and having had the chance to get some sleep) I'm putting this thread back into circulation. Sadly it is clear that mascarpone has abused his privileges & I have regretfully pulled the plug on him. I really don't want to restrict access of others so please keep it nice - but don't make it boring - keep the spice! Get it?

4HP

[Dissapointed]

Now that we have been rid of the Creamy Cheesey one, let's get back to the sub topic of the thread, that of CRM between cockpit and cabin crew.

To this end, I would like to avail my company to the cabin crew for an evening of mutually benficial conversation, a few drinks, a bit to eat and a bit of a laugh. In other words, a date. Yes, let's get PPRUNE working for us, the first on-line Emirates cabin crew / flighdeck dating site! Now that's much more like it.

So what about it girls? I could be the man of your dreams...

Private mail me with staff numbers and photos if possible.

Looking forward to hearing from you ;)

[Sheikh Nickabouk]

Oh well;

There you go leave it to F/D and it has to degenerate.

Seems these guys get so frustrated with working up the front that they can't keep their minds to themselves.

Yes anyway lady M. photos will be great, but not to worry I make more money than all the pilots put together!

:}

[Global Nomad]

Hate to disappoint you disappointed but someone might actually think you're serious about the online dating stuff......we wouldn't have to worry about one thread closing, the whole site would be blocked!

:rolleyes:

On with the thread, hopefully most crew (F/D and cabin) will understand that a few people are going to display less desirable CRM traits (human nature), just don't tar all with the same brush. It's an ongoing effort that will never end so don't give up.

[Desert Whine]

Yeah someone's not sure how to take a joke!

Hey you should come along to one of the CRM courses and see what's it's all about, GN. The initial for new joiners, that is, which is more in-depth than the re-current every year. You will realise what many don't: That CRM is not "the art of being nice to people and everyone getting along."

Being nice to people and everyone getting along might be found in a good CRM environment but not necessarily so.

On closer inspection, I see it's back to the original topic: The CCMs. As for me, I haven't heard of them being re-hired. Sounds like bull-crap to me.

[gee wizz]

Lady Matilda - is it true that the ccms are being taken back???

I did hear that a final decision would be made on the 4th, but thought that was just rumour....

[Sheikh Nickabouk]

yes confirmed, they are being taken back......






To their country!



:E :E


I think that they might relocate them, I hear DS is going to Dubai Municipality to overlook garbage collection process and pest control, everything to do with shooting of strays and rats, seems his experience finally payed off!

[gee wizz]

oh, ok.

there are lots of rumours going around.

[Asa]

heard today that they have been offered their job back...is it true?

[journeyman]

WHAT?! Rumours going around on this forum and at EK?! Quick, call the Obvious Police before it's too late!!!

[gee wizz]

Ha Ha Journeyman - ok, i DID state the obvious! :8

But its all getting very confusing.

I mean we haven't even been told who exactly was sacked and so there are ppl who don't know if they have a ccs or not......

I wonder if what you heard is true Asa? :confused: ?

[galleyguru]

I have to say that reading this has been most amusing! Although the orginal line of the thread was lost for a while, the ranting was excellent!

Please, Please don't bash me as I make a few comments/observations as I am new to this!

they are very simple to understand:

a) never believe rumours until they are confirmed in writing, we can be upset and disheartened by the decisions made but we will never be able to change them, or understand the reasoning behind them.
b) people will only respect you if you respect yourself!
c) we do different jobs and I know that I could never fly a plane, I don't pretend that I could and I know for sure the F/D appreciate what we do and would never want to chicken/beef/lobster/fish it in a million years.

I would like to state that I make the effort to come out for dinner on layovers - in fact it is no effort, I enjoy the excuse not to drink on my own! I have also been known to buy a round or two for the guys. I always thank the f/d for any generosity. I always make fabulous tea, (even Earl Grey!!) which does not taste like it has been stewed for a week, I may also offer a cappaccino or maybe a latte if you are lucky!;)

I also believe that the stilton was very stale and well passed his best before date!!!! He needed throwing out last week! :ok:

S@*t, that was a bit boring :bored: - sorry guys

Bedtime for little girls!:zzz:

[ruserious]

a) never believe rumours until they are confirmed in writing
A good principle GG, like most people, I have been a little guilty of that one, however the cabin crew member who was on the radio this morning claiming that the "unjustly fired ones" had all been re-instated is definitely wide of the mark.

The rumours I hear on line are so far off the mark its scary, if you think that the "CCM's are going to be reinstated in their OLD positions, you clearly have no idea how this airline works or what they are trying to achieve.

The reason you have not seen it in writing is that this company has some fairly stringent HR confidentiality rules and nothing can be disclosed until all appeals are over.

The CCM's and MCC's will as TD said right at the start, be allowed to apply for other jobs in the organisation, just not in service delivery.

Finally I believe, they were never sacked, just removed from their positions. This may appear to be semantics, but is on closer inspection quite different to being sacked

[gee wizz]

who was on the radio??? do tell!!!

[ruserious]

No idea who it was, there was some general talk & winge show on 99.3, anyway this young lady called up and ranted about unfair dismissals, how they were re-instated and how she wanted the Radio show to talk to 7Days and make sure they new all about it, as it was vindication that they were sacked unfairly.
The radio jock did not give her a lot of air time, asked for her OFFICE phone number, at which point she said she was crew. The jock then gave her 7days telephone number and suggested she call them herself.
While this forum is a rumour forum, the radio is plainly not. She plainly has little idea of the facts.

[dingding]

doesn't that show what kind of level of intelligence some of our collegues have???

No wonder sometimes people get paranoid???!!!!

[Sheikh Nickabouk]

Probably another F/D floozie, seeing they can't score anything but floozies these days.

Unlike the lebos of course!

:E

[4HolerPoler]

Sheikh Nickabouk henceforth banned from this forum for abusing the privileges afforded to guests.

Next?

4HP

[Global Nomad]

Just when I'd given up on reincarnation.

[gee wizz]

So i hear....any1 else heard?

[shakealeg]

BACKTRACK: Flanagan (inset) was forced to reinstate previously sacked staff after they won an appeal.
Emirates Airline was forced to make an embarrassing U-turn last week when a group of its senior managers won internal appeal claims against the carrier, Arabian Business can exclusively reveal. The eight previously dismissed staff were subsequently reinstated.

Terry Daly, Emirates’ senior vice president, service delivery, last month fired the In Flight Services (IFS) staff after having previously called a meeting to highlight the decline in service standards on the Dubai-based carrier’s flights. However, following the sackings all eight employees met with Maurice Flanagan, Emirates’ vice chairman and group president, to challenge the dismissals.

A high-level Emirates official told Arabian Business: “The eight staff had individual one-on-one meeting with Flanagan over the weekend of October 1 and 2. In the meetings they were given the opportunity to give their side of the story, which they did.”

Two of the eight Emirates employees were classified as manager: cabin crew (Grade 10) and were highly experienced veterans of the company. Five of the remaining six concerned staff were cabin crew managers (Grade 9) while one was an operations manager (Grade 9). All eight have since been reinstated but it is unclear in which department they will work because replacements have already been lined up for the vacant IFS positions.

“They have all been reinstated to as yet undisclosed positions on the same grade in other divisions within Emirates. However, the positions are away from the IFS division where all eight previously worked,” said the airline official.

The staff were told they would be reinstated two days after their appeals were made to Flanagan. Nothing has so far been shared or communicated internally about the reappointments and the airline has refused to disclose any specific details about the incident to the media.

When approached, an Emirates Airline spokesperson said: “We are not going to discuss internal staff matters with Arabian Business magazine.”

In an ironic twist, on the morning of the sackings three of the eight employees thought they were in line for a promotion after they were told to keep some time free. Immediately after the firings Daly delivered a speech at the Emirates Training College to explain what had happened to the trainers and managers there.

Emirates has previously stated that it prides itself on its robust and objective human resources policies. As such, the airline made sure that the appeals process was dealt with in a fair and balanced way.

The source said: “The reason for the appeal process is to ensure that personal agendas are removed from the disciplinary process. This has been shown to be correct in this particular situation. It is good that fairness has prevailed.”

Earlier this year Emirates issued a warning to its 5600 flight attendants about service standards. A letter to senior cabin crew from Daly urged them to improve their quality of service, galley behaviour, attitude, cabin monitoring and to reduce noise levels.

“I am very sad to say that we have been receiving more and more reports about our standards slipping,” said Daly in the internal memo. “I stood watching one of our peak departure periods recently and I was appalled at some of the things I saw.”

Since its launch in 1985, Emirates has received more than 250 international awards in recognition of its efforts to provide high levels of customer service, including Airline of the Year and Best Customer Service. Although the carrier insists on consistently high service standards it has previously acknowledged that many of its 25,000 staff fail to meet them.

“Given the scale, it is inevitable that there will be some differences in cultural outlook and in attitude. Many of our cabin crew are working in their first overseas employment ever and we appreciate that some may have difficulties in adjusting to a new and working environment,” said an airline spokesperson.

“Emirates prides itself on taking customer feedback seriously. The letters to our in-flight staff were written in order to re-focus and re-engage our crew on key areas which our customers say are important,” the spokesperson added.
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[Dissapointed]

Thank you for posting that, but as for

Nothing has so far been shared or communicated internally about the reappointments

the management never communicated that the firings had happened in the first place. So is this an example of cost neutral communications?

Service standards are sliding downhill, but one area that the crew constantly (Hello, is any senior manager there??!!) one area that they are constantly complaining about, is low morale. This is mostly due to a lack of respect, being treated like children and generally being regarded as expendable by the management as well as having some of the industry's worst working patterns, where fatigue is normal. The two most oftened named managers that the crew would like to see go are TD and KG.

So where is the real root cause of the current problems?

[ruserious]

Interesting media article shakealeg and it is just that a blend of truth, agenda's fiction and nonsense.

Firstly they were never sacked, they where removed from their position's. May seem like a play on words, however, it was stated on the day they were removed from their position, that they would be allowed to take up suitable positions elsewhere in the company.

because replacements have already been lined up for the vacant IFS positions
So that would be why the CCM position is currently on the IVN system?

Do you think TD makes these decisions in isolation, the orders for this came from the top, as indeed all orders to sort out the mess in IFS. Yes morale is chronically low, part of that is the mismanagement at all levels, starting at the top and definitely including those that were removed. It had to be done to move forward, simple as that.

[nixisfix]

ruserious you can't be serious! You mean it's ok that if a highly experienced manager who is found unsuitable for the job he has held for a number of years, is being "removed" from his post to be given a similar position and grade in a field he might know next to nothing about? How does that make him or her a "better" manager? This is just another mess EK created by shooting from the hip, as usual. Sad, very sad indeed...

[ruserious]

nixisfix, I don't think you will find I said or alluded to anything like that. I do not think moving them elsewhere is a good idea.
These managers were promoted way beyond their abilities, this company has a habit of doing that. The love for seniority and cultural sensitivity, as opposed to competence will be its downfall.
Some of our most talented and qualified employees in this company are the most junior, but they are always treated as a threat by the senior incompetents. One of the many reasons why so many good staff leave.

[miss petal]

ruserious you're right. Also the promotion is based on how many sickness you have. So many freak here in the company who never called sick keep flying even when their ears are blcked and spread all the germs and automatically become the company's favourite to be promoted. Sadly, not all of them capable/suitable for the promotion. Just because they never call sick. That is sad... There are more people who actually capable/more fit for the promotion, but one thing led to another they were realy sick, but as usual the company don't care about it. Demotivated it is.

[SecurID]

Ruserious and Miss Petal,

You certainly have the support from this pilot regarding your posts. Good stuff and unemotional!

Ruserious, check your PMs please.

[tiramisu too]

Hello Boys and girlz, I am back only this time I am ready.

Sorry I was away this 10 day around the world jobbie did get the best of me couldn't focus on the PC during the whole layover.

Mind you, we went out and had a laugh and you know what, the F/D decided to stay in and do their own thing!

Yea! Party for the crew! And all the lebo stewards came out we met the crew that was allready en place and we had a ball!

Sorry guys but if you can't make it say so and don't brag about it on pprune saying how wonderfull flight deck are and how terrible lebo stewies are. I mean really if you can't do it just say so and don't give us this BS about no crew come out, poor little old me I wish I was back in Dubai in my ferrari (or porsche) cr@p!

Arrivedecci!

Scoprata testa di mingia!

[SecurID]

A totally irrelevant post. As most readers will know, on SOME layovers, some of the crew come out. On SOME layovers, none of the crew come out. On SOME layovers no one goes out and on SOME layovers none of the flight deck go out.

Maybe on your particular flight, the flight deck were very tired having had tough rosters, or maybe they did not actually want to spend any time with you. After all, the maturity displayed from your last post would surely keep even the most childish of pilots away.

Or probably more realistically, there weren't any great looking girls... ;)

Now how's that for honesty?

[Oblaaspop]

Ahhh, Sleazy Lebacheesy welcome back, we all missed you and your vitriol.....

Keep up the good work!
:yuk: :yuk:

[tiramisu too]

Oblaspop missed all the wonder boys while I was away!

They do say that distance makes the heart grow fonder.

And secur ID for once please sit still, the world does not revolve around F/D, the girls were gr8 as a matter of fact they had a few things to say about you lot and none of it was complimenting. apart from a few who stand out of course.

Ta

[Desert Whine]

Cheesy Sleezy Leba Neezy.

I'm guessing you're one of the pimply slick-backs who tries too hard and blows your bolt as soon as you walk in and see a blondes in the briefing room.

Even the English girls seem to have woken up to the greesy swarthy Med types these days. You'll have to come up with some new lines about the stars in their eyes or maybe stick with your own ugly hairy women if they'll have you.

We had a successful night in Sydney last week. Managed to get 6 of the girls out to a private party a local lad knew about and convinced the two lecherous lebs that no one was going out!!

Classic!!! :ok:

[tiramisu too]

2nd hand material mate just in case you didn't know. But it's ok you would not know the difference anyway particularly from where you come from, your women are so loose and you are used to it.

thanks for looking after them while we were out, they did say they enjoyed the party and for once they were treated to a drink.

Not so sure about eating cheese and onion and chip botties in singapore though, should try to be more creative next time and maybe only maybe you might get a little shine.

take care desert whine, don't worry, we are watching over you and we will make sure you don't get any while we are here!

Byyyyyyye!

[Desert Whine]

Don't be too despondent, cheese-boy. There are always new arrivals here although I'm told the supply of westerners is drying up rapidly.

Seems the word is spreading and chicks from UK, W. Europe, Aust, etc are less and less interested in coming here. Probably a lot of bad press in general leaking out so who would blame them but I have no doubt the image given by sleazy, lazy, greasy guys like you has contributed.

You and your mates tried SO HARD that you've helped convince women that living here is a less than pleasant experience. The amazing thing is you can never see it. Both the crew AND the pilots laugh about it (when they can) and you have absolutely no idea. It'd be funny if it weren't so sad.

Don't spend ALL your money on clothes and hair-gel. Save something for a new western personality...


HAHAHAHAHAAAAA......... :ok:

What a t**t........

[tiramisu too]

Well you said it yourself:

Seems the word is spreading and chicks from UK, W. Europe, Aust, etc are less and less interested in coming here.

It would not happpen to be because of the low salaries F/D are onto these days, would it?

Don't need to spend much on clothes and hair gel, my cousin has a clothes shop in Deira, you know that part of town you daren't peek your nose at for fear of being eaten up by the pakies; my other cousin has a gent's salon, but I bet at 50 bob a cut its too dear for a little pilot like you. Always talk and no action.

Anyway got to go for lunch, my auntie has made Mlokhiya, bet you don't know what that is either considering the only lebanese thing you probably had was a shawarma.

Have you found yourself a russian wife? I hear a lot of you F/D go fishing at the cyclone these days out of despair!

[BYMONEK]

Once again this topic is receiving lots of posts and once again for the wrong reasons. Please don't give this person the platform he desires to highlight his over inflated ego and his poor English ( spelling and grammar!) Don't rise to the bait. No matter how tempting it is! :E

[tiramisu too]

Seaman staynes I could not have said it better.

Apart from the direction this thread may take at times thanks to my poor English grammar; what you state is I beleive, the root cause of the problem.

Too many managers not willing to forego the glory of their post when things go right and readily glad to blame others when they are going wrong.

Somehow, and this has nothing to do with the qualities of my English, it seems to me that overall no one cares! Whether it be MF our sanctified OBE to all levels below the concern of EK managers seems to be about pushing papers and not going to the forefront of the actual problems.

This is the result of years of neglect in the processes used to select Managers to be, on the basis not of how best they fit company policies and development, but rather on their nodding ability.

What is yet more surprising about the recent firings, is that there are some notorious do nothings and worse probably do worsers like the Palestinian lot who are still seated happily behind their desks; this despite a history of poor management skills, interventionism (Wasta) etc....

Can anyone explain that with due respect to the variable opinions on the subject?

BYMONEK: Ever so sorry for the English, I do apologise! No really dear I do!

Buzz-off if that is the only thing you found in the substance of the posts, you are a sad case of get-homitis! Only one opinion counts: Yours! Typical of the stick managers everyone loves to call drivers!

The saying goes: Thy servants wait while their master Baits!

[Gillegan]

A little story from the early days of EK:

The cabin crew had just won an award for best cabin crew in some poll or contest. At the awards ceremony, MF stood up and accepted the award, attributing the results to management's hard work and ground breaking processes, management's ability and management's management etc. etc.. As Richard Branson stood up to accept second place for Virgin's cabin crew, he graciously congratulated Emirates but said that MF had been remiss in not mentioning the people that had actually won the award, the cabin crew. He then congratulated them himself.

This story was told to me so I'm not actually certain that it's true but it does illustrate the mindset here at Emirates.

[tiramisu too]

True story;

It was the Business traveler Award for best cabin crew, when we had to distribute the magazines to the passengers on-board inflight, we used to carry over 150 copies/flight.

EK operated 310's and Virgin was still operating their 74 classics out of LGW, but look at where EK is service wise and look at virgin. A whole world of difference.

I won't even mention the hosties.......

[Dissapointed]

Tiramisu, you're winding us up, aren't you? You're not an 'Easter Med' type at all, are you! You're command of English suddenly gets better when you want to discuss a serious topic. Well done though on getting a few people wound up!

[Desert Whine]

Cheese can't quite decide whether he's Lebbo or Greek. I've suspected for a while that he's neither and not a hosty either.

Just another bored pilot but it's amusing anyway and lets people get some grief off their chests.... and no one gets hurt - except Leb reputation!!

Classic! :ok:

[7x7]

Was I imagining it, or was there a really funny Leb joke on this thread a day or two ago that was 'pulled'?

It was unPC, (tell me a joke that isn't), but is there too unPC for Jetblast?

[mooguy]

Which is why they dont care when good, mature, and experienced crew resign!

It makes sense, get em in young, keep em fresh, and once they are worn out and zapped a bit of initial enthusiam, put them out to pasture. Its very sexist, but ruthlessly logical from a business point of view. After 2 years, a big majority of crew are no longer brighte eyed and bushytailed about the job, in faxt they are jaded, so just keep the new ones coming in is one way to ensure customers are greeted with a smiling crew- not really possible if you have worked there for a long time!

As for MJ-she was a lovely lady, im surprised, but her hubby was always a ratbag.....TW was trouble, and is the notorious SN still there, god he made many a crews life a nightmare!!!

[tiramisu too]

Mooguy;

Good to know I am not alone in thinking that too!

The day MS walked in with her baggage handling experience gunho'ing her way around IFS like a bull in a china shop it impressed a lot of people, but like TD it's all talk, full of air and no different in that she is trying to create a little empire of noddies and narks.

However nor did she nor will TD remove the cancer of this airline, the palestinian management like the SN the rest should go MH, TA, etc... The only ones who do any honour to the company are those still flying. Nor wil she be able to remove the rest of the cancer in the form of locals........Yes talk to me about performance what are these guys doing in IFS when they are out to pray 10 times a day? and when it takes them 20 minutes to draw a 5 line e-mail, why were they not fired?

[Desert Whine]

mooguy/tiramisu/cheese/shk nick.... isn't schizophrenia a wonderful thing??

You really must do something about this habit of having discussions with yourself all the time. It's not healthy. :rolleyes:

[tiramisu too]

Sorry desert whine, it's either your whining that's doing you in or the squelch settings on your radio, but neither are the one or the same, it's just a fragment of your little imagination..... or what little you have of it....

Mind you to land in the desert and be proud of being a driver doesn't take much.

go down to Scarlett's and unwind with the rest of your mates, might do you just that little good and perhaps your mind goiong too.

Did you say cheese prick?

[gee wizz]

i c that now we have lost our chance to bid for a block of days off on top bid - with the maximum now being 5 - that was the only decent thing we had left here.