Bell 429

[CRAN]

It seems Bell are starting to see work on the the MAPL Products yield fruit. I just spotted this about the new Bell 429 on their website.

http://www.bellhelicopter.textron.com/images/429-750x250.jpg

http://www.bellhelicopter.textron.com/images/429_goldenClouds_250x250.jpg

Any thoughts chaps?

CRAN
:ok:

[Eurobolkow]

Interesting development but may be a little late by the time it is certified and not quite sure what the market will be with the EC145 and Agusta Grand having such a head start.

However, good to see Bell at least making some effort to compete with the dominant forces in this segment.

[belly tank]

oh you beautiful thing!!!.......just like the JRX artist impression...its very inspiring i just hope Bell can deliver.....and im a devout fan of bell and their product support!...i beleive in 10 years time BHT will have the helicopter of choice if they can match or outperform EC but then agian EC have a good product in the 350 series

[The Rotordog]

Nice looking artist impression (as are all of Bell's artist impressions)! Might be a pretty good ship if they can price it competitively. Maybe they could keep the costs down by building it in...um...Korea?

[C4]

A jet ranger/407 with a twin pack. What a joke
Build something new for a change Bell!!!

[SASless]

Seen it at the HAI....totally underwhelmed by it.....it is no where near the helicopter the EC-135, EC-145 is. Tail rotor is conformed like a 206....inline with the tail boom thus killing the versatility of the tail gate. The passenger steps came from Bubba's Four Wheel driver accessory shop....at least they could have bought the chrome version.

A pig's ear...is a pig's ear.

[Shawn Coyle]

I am well versed in the Bell 407 / 427 and their issues, and was very impressed by the 429.
Wheels as an option. Skids appeared to be more substantial than the 427.
No fuel in the cabin!
Low floor for loading patients / passengers.
Adjustable seats for the pilots.
Sliding glare shield for the flight instruments.
Cabin is larger than the A109, according to the Bell folks. Option for clamshell doors.
Yes, the tail rotor is in low, but they may listen to more input and put a ringfin on it, or something like it.
It appears they are still in the input mode - I know they had at least two design-type engineers there and they were asking questions as opposed to 'how do you like it?'.
They have made (finally) a bold step.
New rotor blades so it should have better high altitude performance.
But we'll see what the final result is soon.

[Warren Buffett]

Belly Tank, SASless - all good points. Bell is actually trying to do good stuff but my research tells me that the company is staggerring from the V-22 mistakes, incredibly poor decisions (too many to list - there's another old thread on this) made under previous management and making its work force more innovative/creative.

It will happen hopefully sooner than later, so along with the fixes in the TT straps (over 20 years and counting) they WILL, in my lifetime, come out with models that give EADS a run for their money. Meanwhile their ships are cheap, utility focussed, support is good and orders are piling (for the moment). It is a small step in the right direction.

Compare Bell to say old clunky Harley technology which is selling great volumes rather than say a top notch technology laden Honda bike.

WB

[CS-Hover]

Hi

is from my eyes, or is not only the auto industry that is starting to design different models/brands but with the same look??? :sad:

isn't a little of http://www.agustawestland.com/dinimg/AB139_01med.jpg

in the second photo of the 429


let's wait for the tech specs... :ok:

(the pdf file in bell site isn't availlable yet..)

regards

[Dynamic Component]

Are my eyes decieving me or does that look like a 4 bladed t/r on the first picture? Or should I say two 2 bladed T/Rs stuck together?:}

[Ian Corrigible]

Believe it's a low-noise scissors-type system.

As Shawn says, BHTC still appears to be in the input mode, hence no glossy 429 brochures at the show and no fenestron or PATS this time round.

I/C

[Steve76]

Ugly.
Looks like a JR on steriods.

[SASless]

Shawn,

How do you load a patient with the rotors turning on the 429....using the clamshell rear doors?

Am I the only one that thinks the skid steps came from Bubba's four wheel drive shop?

Lets see....year 2005....adjustable pilot's seats....darn what progress.

I did look at the baggage bay hinges....unlike the 412 they did not have Bell 47 part numbers.

[A10 Thundybox]

Agree with S76 above

It's gotta be as pretty as the 222/230

[Ogsplash]

Interesting the negative comments. It's a result of input from a couple of operator committees that included people from overseas. Considering it's a mockup but they plan to fly it this year, I would be surprised if there were no changes but in EMS, the side doors are very wide and the cabin is clean with no intrusions. Cockpit is modern and appears comfortable. Bell appears to be listening to customers.

Looking at it at HeliExpo, I think it is a bold move by Bell to provide an alternative to EC products. Put that, with the 139 and 609 which is due to start again this year and within a couple of years (which is not a long time in aviation), Bell will have a fairly competitive lineup. If they maintain their customer support record, then they should be on a winner.

Just my opinion though.

[Shawn Coyle]

SASless:
Agree on the loading thru the clamshell doors with the rotors turning.
But then again, is this commonly done on the BK-117 / EC-145 with the rotors turning?
Lots of other utility loads that could be loaded that way with the rotors stopped.
But as someone said- they aren't done yet.
I'm just impressed that they actually made a lot of significant design changes from their old models.
Couple of other things I missed in the previous message:
The rotor head looked different from previous ones, part old style, part Bell 430 from first glance.
The pilot and copilot doors and cyclics are actually set up so you don't have to do gyrations getting in.
There is no broom closet or anything else separating the cabin and cockpit.

[CS-Hover]

Hi

the pdf file, in bell site, as been released

Bell 429 (http://www.bellhelicopter.textron.com/en/aircraft/commercial/pdf/Bell4291.pdf)

again, maybe is from my eyes :{ , but the picture of the first page, doesn't seems somethink like a BK ????


but watherver it's look's like, seems that, or Bell has been doing some homework, or has been reading, a post from pprune, about things that they should use/improve (look at the skids EC style... ):cool:

Shawn, anyone, any real pictures availablre???

looks cool, now let's wait for performance data... :ok:

regards

[SASless]

Imitation is the best form of flattery.....Bell seems to think a lot of the BK-117!

While they are busy listening to the customers....wonder why they have not found a way to build a decent pilot's seat? The 206 seat has to be the cause of more bad backs than anything in the world. The Bell Huey seat....has set a standard for being "uncomfortable"....was only outdone by the 412 seat which merely copied the same concept of the 206 seat.

When they built the 407....they moved the 206 seat two inches forward which made it very uncomfortable to fly without buying aftermarket pedal extenders.

Nope...not impressed with Bell seats.

Anyone really happy with the 206 pilot doors? Compared the BK doors and their hold open locks to any of the Bells? 212/412 pilots have calloused legs from holding doors open with their legs and feet.

When they built a four bladed head....they stacked two "540" style rotor blades/hubs and called it good....which it isn't.

Innovative they are not. Heck, they have been working on the tilt-rotor for over 50 years.....and it still isn't done.

[PANews]

I was also at HAI.

The front of the 429 is impressive enough ... anyone with a history of Bell to hand will probably find its profile under the section marked Bell 400 [the ringtail and predessesor to the TwinStar] which suggests that as the 400 flew a great deal of structural work was done back then... but that tail end ...... Death would be quick if you blundered that way... and many others [potential customers] could be seen pointing at a messy rear end layout .... Centre of the t/r boss is at 6 feet which should make your eyes water only very briefly....

The ringtail is dead, the Bellestron is dead and now Bell's answer to not copying the others on how to stop helicopters spinning uncontrallably is said to be a new Hot-notar blower system [but not yet] ... if copying the systems that work is such a worry why use the tail rotor?

[Eurobolkow]

CS-Hover thanks for posting the link to the 429 PDF file but that has to be one of the poorest documents I have ever seen produced by any company, let alone one of Bell's experience and reputation.

Where are the interior dimensions and layout config diagrams, the top level performance info or indeed any information that might give us some idea of the capabilities of the aircraft.

It also refers to the Aircraft Technical Manual at the end so perhaps someone would be kind enough to post a link to this!!!

[CS-Hover]

Hi

Eurobolkow:

maybe, because

BHTC still appears to be in the input mode, hence no glossy 429 brochures at the show and no fenestron or PATS this time round.


i've been searching for this type of info from the different companys, and the pdf files that Bell, has, for the others models are among the best/more complete that i've found... let's wait and see ;)

real pic from HAI?? nobody ???? :sad:

regards

[PANews]

Where are the interior dimensions and layout config diagrams....


In fairness to Bell it took me 6 months to get cabin volume for the Grand out of AgustaWestland ...... thats another story!

I am quite willing to accept that Bell are treating that back- end like an afterthought ... but I believe that was a mighty mistake.

I got two lots of customers in camera each apparently 'mouths open and pointing at the tail rotor set-up' and in all fairness they are for publication later, not on pprune. I also overheard a Bell rep dismissing one of these customers along the lines of 'high skids will solve that' ...... just how high?

[Eurobolkow]

PA News:

I think you will find that the Agusta Grand brochure that was available at the UK Launch contained cabin dimensions, payload vs range diagram and performance data.

I have to agree with your view however that the 429 rear end seems like a bit of an after thought.

[Ian Corrigible]

There's a single shot of the 429, plus some good 'on stand' and 'in-coming' shots of other types from the show, at Fence Check (http://www.fencecheck.com/forums/index.php?topic=2037.0).

I/C

[Spunk]

Pics of the interior:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/Captain407/HeliExpo045.jpg

Cockpit:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/Captain407/HeliExpo046.jpg

Could anybody please verify that I didn't mix up the pics and that the above is actually the cockpit of the Bell 429 (took too many pics)

[PANews]

Eurobolkow, not wishing to go off thread too much, the figures manufacturers choose to supply can inevitably lead to a lack of information and often treating like with like can be difficult on the numbers freely supplied - such was the case with the Grand last year.

The same applies with actually getting bums on seats, you can have all the numbers you like [including that elusive cabin volume] but it is only when you sit down with a crick in your neck that you may be able to highlight that a given type is best avoided by 6 footers..... and that affects an awful lot of airframes.

In this case, as the 429 was 'just a mock-up' it may have been wiser if Bell had followed Agusta's lead and deleted the tail for the launch.

[Heliport]

Business Wire
Textron's Bell Helicopter Unveils New Aircraft and Books Strong Orders at Heli-Expo

PROVIDENCE, R.I.-- Further reinforcing its leadership in the global aviation marketplace, Textron Inc. (NYSE: TXT) businesses have generated strong customer orders and significant interest in products and technologies unveiled and/or featured at the annual Heli-Expo conference and trade show, held earlier this week in Anaheim, CA.


During the show, Bell Helicopter introduced the newest entry to its leading lineup of commercial helicopters: the Bell 429 GlobalRanger Light Twin. Incorporating a variety of "first-ever" technologies from Bell's Modular Affordable Product Line (MAPL) -- including unprecedented cabin and cockpit features and new high performance rotor technology -- the Bell 429 represents a significant advancement for the light twin segment and will offer customers a wide range of affordable options. With orders taken at the show, there are currently 110 orders for the new aircraft. First deliveries are anticipated during the first half of 2007.

Including the strong sales of its new Bell 429 GlobalRanger and popular 407, 412, and 210 models, Bell Helicopter booked 34 total orders across its commercial helicopter line.

"Textron companies had a great showing at this year's event," said Lewis B. Campbell, Textron's Chairman, President and CEO. "And it's no surprise that Bell's new product news - once again - led the show. The new Bell 429 is the latest in a series of significant milestones for Bell, and - more importantly - for our customers, whose input was instrumental in the design of this aircraft. It's this customer focus and commitment, combined with a true passion for innovation, that make Textron's aviation and aircraft-related employees the best in the businesses."

Other Textron highlights from this week's event include:

-- Bell Helicopter announced that it has reached multi-national agreements with Korea Aerospace Industries, Ltd. (KAI) and Mitsui Bussan Aerospace Company, Ltd. for a collaboration to develop, certify, produce and market the new Bell 429 light twin helicopter for the world market. This agreement further enables Bell to bring the advanced, affordable new 429 GlobalRanger light twin helicopter to market globally.

-- Bell reported that the relocation of its Customer Training Academy and Customer Support and Service Centers to new state-of-the-art facilities at Alliance Airport in Fort Worth, TX, is complete. In addition to a world-class Customer Logistics Center, the facilities include an unprecedented new Customer Training Academy, featuring more than 41,000 square feet of hangar space dedicated entirely to critical hands-on maintenance training and a newly designed helicopter-training airport.

-- Bell unveiled a program to integrate the Honeywell HTS900 engine into the Bell 407 commercial product line, replacing the current Rolls Royce 250-C47B engine. This move is expected to yield a 15 percent improvement in installed power that will significantly enhance the performance capability -- and reliability -- of the aircraft. The HTS900 integration program is expected to be complete in late 2006.

-- Bell announced that Rotorcraft Leasing Company, LLC, has extended its growing fleet of Bell helicopters to a total of 44 aircraft - through a major fleet expansion program that includes a recent purchase contract for six new Bell Model 206L-4 LongRangers. With the third largest helicopter fleet operating in the Gulf of Mexico, Rotorcraft Leasing, headquartered in Broussard, LA, is a major offshore helicopter operator, servicing offshore production and exploration facilities in the Gulf region.

-- Bell reported that ChevronTexaco has ordered a third Bell 427 light twin helicopter for its offshore fleet. ChevronTexaco currently operates a fleet of 30 helicopters; 21 of which are Bell aircraft, including Bell 430s, 206L's and 206B's in addition to the 427 models. Bell also announced that full-service helicopter maintenance firm, Arrow Aviation Company, LLC, has taken delivery of a new Bell 206L-4 aircraft. Arrow Aviation provides helicopter maintenance and completion services to the commercial, offshore, corporate, emergency medical and private aviation markets - and owns a fleet of 11 Bell 206B Series JetRangers and 206L Series LongRangers, which are utilized on long-term leases throughout the United States.

-- Lycoming Engines generated strong customer interest and attention at Heli-Expo as it featured a variety of piston aircraft engines from across its market-leading product line. Lycoming piston engines power more than half of the world's general aviation fleet - both rotary-wing and fixed-wing.

-- HR Textron, an operating unit of Textron Systems, showcased its broad line of primary and secondary flight control actuation products, generating significant interest from a variety of current and potential customers.

[Head Turner]

With the likely MAUM of the 429 would a scissor type t/r on a pylon be a practical choice?

[SASless]

Quoting the sales data from the post above....

"-- Bell announced that Rotorcraft Leasing Company, LLC, has extended its growing fleet of Bell helicopters to a total of 44 aircraft - through a major fleet expansion program that includes a recent purchase contract for six new Bell Model 206L-4 LongRangers. With the third largest helicopter fleet operating in the Gulf of Mexico, Rotorcraft Leasing, headquartered in Broussard, LA, is a major offshore helicopter operator, servicing offshore production and exploration facilities in the Gulf region. "


The fact that Rotorcraft Leasing has lost several helicopters this year....it means more like keeping up with attrition rather than an overall fleet growth as I see it.
:(

[Head Turner]

139, 429. Is there a significance in the number 9 as being the in thing at the moment. Numbers have taken over from names and 9 seems to be relevant. Is it because it will be built in China and this number is a lucky one! Built in China will make for competitive pricing.

Nice looking ship and is one to assume that it will look like this in production form.

I think we are all happy to see dear old Bell stepping out from the shaddows, arn't we?

[Eurobolkow]

Maybe you have stumbled on a story here, AgustaWestland to buy Bell anybody!!!!

Then you would have the 119, 109, 129, 139, 429 and 609????

[Head Turner]

I see the adverts for the Bell 429 but little more than that. Has anyone heard how this project is progressing?

[PANews]

It is probably much too early to expect anything yet. It was only launched a matter of months ago.

In the background the eastern partners [Korea] do not seem to be able to decide whether they are going to sell it themselves yet... they did not do to well with the 427 so are apparently considering offloading sales to another company ... so significant progress in other aspects will also take a while.

[Ian Corrigible]

There was an article in Flight International a couple of months back, stating:

- Bell aiming to bring 429 in "a couple of decibels below ICAO Stage 3 [limits] in quiet cruise mode"
- Certification scheduled for the first half of 2007
- Bell now has 110 orders

I/C

[Mediahawk]

What happened to the 427? They added the 427i to their lineup, but it seems to be all but forgotten...

Click for article on 427i (http://www.ainonline.com/issues/09_04/09_04_bellsnew423i_109.html)

What's the status of the 427? :confused:

- M

[Encyclo]

The Bell 427 is back in production, trying to keep up with the demand. Yes there is quite a bit of demand. Aircraft has proven to be very reliable and adequate for low altitude work (read offshore support). Ride is extremely smooth, some have said smoother than the Bell 430.

[Civis]

Opinions please Ladies and Gentlemen, both utility and EMS. Any speculation on teething time for the A model and product support? Comparison with EC-145?
Merci

[SASless]

If typical Bell product....five years to sort out the tail rotor alone.

[Revolutionary]

How do you compare a fully functioning, certificated aircraft with a cardboard-and-plastic mockup?

[Encyclo]

First flight of a 429 rotor on a 427 was shown almost live at HAI on Monday. Took place earlier that morning. Was done up north with the snow and all. Story is that after one week, flights are going much better than expected:eek:

[BigMike]

Maybe Bell will offer this as a refit for 427 owners? :ok:

While it is early days, on paper at least, it looks to be a good thing. Nothing wrong with Bell's customer support.

Specs:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/Micksphotos/429specs.jpg

[Heli-kiwi]

Has anybody read anything on the "PATS" system that is supposedly going to revolutionise the new line of Bell products? All I know is that it apparently provides rearwards thrust in forward flight when reduced anti torque thrust is required, I used to work for a Bell OEM and this is all I could get out of them, I believe that it might still be just an unproven concept at this stage.

[Ian Corrigible]

During an interview last month, Red stated that work on PATS was still on-going, but the momentum really went out of the program when UCAR was cancelled. XworX was due to demo a full-scale PATS testbed this year, but Bell probably has other priorities right now.

PATS is really of greater use for military operators than civil users (reduced IR signature, dash speed), and with Bell having already dropped the tailfan due to 'negative feedback from a customer advisory panel' (plus other issues), the rumor is that the company has re-embraced 'conventional' tail rotor layouts such as the 429's scissors configuration for now.

I/C

[remote hook]

When is Bell going to design a cabin that has some room in it????

The old LR concept has been beaten to death, don't you think?

RH

[Heli-kiwi]

Surely a flat floor is the way to go - it makes maintenance that extra bit easier..............A true multirole machine.

[BigMike]

Some interior shots. Flat floor and all...;)

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/Micksphotos/429EMSIN2.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/Micksphotos/429EMSIn.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/Micksphotos/429EMSIn3.jpg


I think it will be a very good EMS machine.

[Revolutionary]

Can the backboard only be loaded through the clamshell doors, or is there a side-loading option? I really don't like the idea of loading through the back with that low tail rotor out there. I think our med crews will like the idea even less.

[BigMike]

Yes, the litter can be loaded from the side as well.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/Micksphotos/429EMSIn4.jpg

[Ian Corrigible]

Veering wildly off-topic, Janes reports this weekend that Bell’s PATS propulsive anti-torque system (see above) is now to be tested on a U.S. Marine Corps AH-1Z Viper under DARPA’s FY-07 budget. Hope it gets further than Piasecki’s VTDP.

I/C

[PANews]

Bill Stromberg one of the engineers on the programme says they are addressing the low tail rotor problem as they are aware of concerns expressed and will fit 'some sort of' guard to stop crew walking into the low rear rotor. It seems quite clear that they are a bit unclear how this will work so it must be only on paper at the moment.

Bell have looked at a number of alternative options for replacing the tail rotor but again the story appears to be 'some sort of' new anti-torque system. Certainly no technology description was extracted and I suspect that little if any flight testing of the new system has yet taken place.

What is it?

Well it seems to be like Notar but rather than Coanda effect and lots of cold air from a seperately driven fan this sounds as if it might be a combination including hot efflux from the engine. Perhaps something like Cierva worked on back in 1948 or so.

The alternative system is simply not yet available for production and it will not be available for at least another three years.

At least the cabin looks just the thing the industry wants - THIS TIME!

[flightmedic1]

Very, very nice machine on first appearances. As a flight paramedic myself I would have a concern for the low tail rotor, but that could be ameliorated with proper training.

I would love to get my hands on one of these, but in reality there is no way that we will ever see one in South Africa. Not when have only 5 EMS helo's in the whole country due to the expense (I am open to correction on this figure, but I believe I am right). A lot of people die unnecessarily because of this, but the money is not there so what can we do?

Cheers, and happy flying.

[Helipolarbear]

Don't feel lonely! Ireland is suppose to be the wealthiest per GNP in Europe and we have NO Civil Air Ambulance / HEMS!!!!!:} Theres always hope for the future

[Revolutionary]

Re: the tail rotor: I suppose you could load from the side when hot and use the clamshell doors only when loading cold. Seems workable. Whatever happened to the fenestron Bell tested on a 407 a few years ago? PANews, a NOTAR-like system that uses 'hot efflux from the engine'? What if the engines quit?

[Ned-Air2Air]

Flightmedic1 - Are you counting the Red Cross machines as well as the Surf Rescue ones or just the Netcare 911 machines in JoBurg etc.

[flightmedic1]

Ned -

I'm not counting the surf rescue, just the dedicated EMS machines. And as I said, I am open to correction on that number because I've lost track of the number (having worked overseas for the last couple of years).

[PANews]

PANews, a NOTAR-like system that uses 'hot efflux from the engine'? What if the engines quit?


Don't ask me! I am only the messenger.

Like many others to me the real technology of this 'notar like' system remains a mystery. Perhaps that is just how Bell want it. After all they were not exactly forthcoming with the reasons they dumped the fenestron. They probably have 'Commercial Confidential' issues!

A certain company once claimed to the effect that its system removed the danger of tail rotor failure. But then lost an airframe because the fan failed and the Coanda effect was not enough on the day. So even if we are talking about 'hot efflux from the engine' it would be no different to any other system when the fire went out and the t/r lost effect.

There are plenty of t/r failures that do not lead to undue drama and plenty of types that do not really sit in the hover because their recovery profile is not exactly docile. Similarly forward speed may remove the element of danger when the fire goes out to the 'new Bell system' as well as it does for airframes today.

I guess we will get the explanation of the technology when Bell are good and ready.

Thats assuming they even know themselves!

[Aser]

http://www.verticalmag.com/control/news/articlefiles/1447-bell1.jpg

http://www.verticalmag.com/control/news/templates/?a=1447&z=6

[rotorspeed]

The mock up of the Bell 429 looked pretty good at Duxford last year, though seems to have gone a bit quiet since. Anyone know how it's progressing?

Any recent info such as when IFR acft deliveries start, UK/Europe certification target date, configuration (skids/wheels), latest forecasts on all normal performance data etc welcomed.
Is Bell - at last - going to produce a serious competitor to the A109 Power/Grand EC135 for SPIFR corporate use?

[Graviman]

From Bell themselves:

http://www.bellhelicopter.textron.com/en/aircraft/commercial/bell429.cfm

http://www.bellhelicopter.com/en/aircraft/commercial/pdf/Bell4291.pdf#search=%22bell%20429%22

Other sources:

http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRTypen/FRB429.htm

http://www.ainonline.com/issues/06_05/06_05_bell429_66.htm

I imagine prototypes are about to be put through all sorts of development and durability testing. Then there will be any development redesigns before pre-production.

Interesting to see that Bell also seem to be sticking with 4-blade rigid rotor. This seems to be a popular system, so good response and low vibration levels is the new bar. Speed next?

Mart

[BigMike]

I believe the first one is on the line now, and will be flying in a few months. I will try and find out a bit more in the next week.

[Gregg]

From the Bell website:

http://www.bellhelicopter.com/en/companyInfo/pressReleases/PR_060717-1248_429RapidPace.cfm

http://www.bellhelicopter.com/en/companyInfo/pressReleases/PR_060303_429rotor1st.cfm

Looks like Big Mike summed it up well. Concept demonstrator has flown with the rotor system and other component development tests have been conducted. First full test aircraft to fly later this year according to the press release.

[Head Turner]

What is the latest news on the Bell 429

[tottigol]

Rumor has it that Air Methods backed out of buying the first 15 or so off the line.
It seems as if Eurocopter is getting more appealing.

[heli1]

I see Bell have the first a/c out at Mirabel.....Any news or bets on it flying later this month in time for Heliexpo?

[Avnx EO]

For those nay-sayers who claimed Bell's 429 first flight was only for show... Not only is she continuing test ... but she reached over 150 knots today.... Very smooth I'm told.:cool:

[Big Bucks Bernie]

Bell invites media for "inaugural flight of 429" - which occurred last month, we thought

Well, this one had the Rotorhub.com team scratching their heads! Bell Canada has issued media invitations to "the inaugural flight of the new GLOBAL RANGER 429, first model from the highly innovative MAPL series." - today 1.15pm at Mirabel.

Given that the first flight happened just a few days before Heli-Expo opened, on 27th February to be exact, we can only assume that "inaugural" has a different meaning in this context to what we are used to...

Perhaps this will be the event that prompts Bell to issue the first official photos of the 429 prototype? Thanks to the internet, photos of that have been circulating already - Bell's French distributor Rotor International, for example, quite happy to put photos on their website in recent days/weeks:-

8th February (http://www.rotor-international.com/en/en_newsitem.php?id=46)- pushing the prototype out of the hangar for the first time
27th February (http://www.rotor-international.com/en/en_newsitem.php?id=47)- first flight.Source: Rotorhub.com (http://www.shephard.co.uk/Rotorhub/Default.aspx?Action=745115149&ID=681f27d8-e42e-4e86-89ae-89404d67288a)

For the first "official" photo of the Bell 429 GlobalRanger's maiden flight in February, visit the French website Helimat (http://helimat.free.fr/7_Bell429_C-GBLL.htm) or click on the thumbnail below.

http://helimat.free.fr/2007/02/429/BELL429_1stFlight_small.jpg (http://helimat.free.fr/2007/02/429/BELL429_1stFlight.jpg)
Photo Source: Helimat (http://helimat.free.fr/7_Bell429_C-GBLL.htm)

I find it a bit peculiar that two independent websites in France have more information about the first prototype getting airborne on their websites than Bell Helicopters has on its official Bell website... :confused:

[Avnx EO]

I agree... the media relations are more than a bit odd on this one....

I suspect that given the recent CEO swap at Bell, that the PR organization is still trying to find its feet.

[tottigol]

"I suspect that given the recent CEO swap at Bell, that the PR organization is still trying to find its feet."

I suspect that they are trying to find much more than that.:rolleyes:

[andTompkins]

EO - When you're sitting at your desk on Friday, why not call your VP of Communications and ask him to publish a story?

:confused:

[BigKahuna]

Does anyone know why the 429 moc up was absent from HAI in Orlando?

The Bell booth was looking a bit sparse with two 407 on the big floor, definitly not a confidence builder for potential buyers.

[ppheli]

One can only assume that the "stop and think again" order on the ARH is giving the PR guys something to think about this week. But that said, the 429 first flight and 417 cancellation never appeared at Heli-Expo as releases.....

And those photos on Helimat site are NOT copyright Helimat but copyright Rotor International and/or their employee Yves-Armel Collinot - check the text at the bottom of this page (http://helimat.free.fr/7_Bell429_C-GBLL.htm) and you will see what I mean

[PANews]

The first flight of the 429 and the demise of the 417 may not have hit a conventional paper release from Bell but they were announced by company representatives at the company press conference on February 28 and effectively first appeared in paper form in the Show Dailies.

Perhaps this latest announcement is the Bell PR Dept realising that the paper trail was missing something!

[spinwing]

Mmmmm` ......

And of course we're going to believe EVERYTHING that "them good 'ol boys" at Bell tell us ............. right!!!! :hmm:

:E

[Big Bucks Bernie]

And those photos on Helimat site are NOT copyright Helimat but copyright Rotor International and/or their employee Yves-Armel Collinot - check the text at the bottom of this page (http://helimat.free.fr/7_Bell429_C-GBLL.htm) and you will see what I mean
Nowhere was it stated that they were copyright Helimat. Helimat was merely mentioned as the source of the image.

[JerryG]

Every day last week at the Avalon Airshow I've been having a quiet smoke round the back of the expo next to a very large wooden box stencilled "Bell 429, This Way UP"........It doesn't take much to amuse me these days.

I could see there was a helicopter in there but it never came out of the box! I did wonder, as the temperature hit 35 on Thursday, whether perhaps they'd brought it over for early does-it-melt-in-a-box trials.

Anybody think of a good reason why you would ship a helicopter 8,000 miles and not at least show it some Australian sunshine? Seems a bit cruel to me.

[Rushes]

JerryG

Maybe Nectar Points!!

That said, no different from MBJ's legs, they travelled 8000 miles and never saw the sun..... There is a god!

Cheers

Rushes :ok:

[BigMike]

I believe the mock-up inside was found to be damaged from shipping when opened up, so was not displayed. Dropped on the whalf?

[docstone]

Considering joining the queue, interested to hear thoughts, comparisons to existing ships or rumors (especially those who were at HAI)? Thanks

[turboshaft]

Disappointing news - it looks like the GlobalRanger has slipped by another year. Something must have cropped up over the last 4 months, since the Bell Helicopter team at HAI was gung-ho about delivering the first ship by the end of the year.


Bell Helicopter Concludes Successful Farnborough
Monday, July 21, 2008 / Bell Helicopter

Bell Helicopter, a Textron Inc. (NYSE: TXT) company, wrapped up a successful Farnborough Air Show this week by adding 24 orders across the full range of its product line as it hosted over 1,000 guests in its new chalet.

"Without exception Bell sees significant demand for our products and our recent product line rationalization continues to resonate with our customers," said Bob Fitzpatrick, Bell's senior vice president marketing and sales.

"The 412 led the way this year at Farnborough as we increased our funded backlog to new heights. Customers recognize the strengths each of our products bring to their market segments and value the Bell support that comes with those products." said Danny Maldonado, vice president of commercial business development.

During Farnborough Bell continued to receive positive product reviews of the 429 as the backlog swelled to over 300. Customer anticipation is building as the company anticipates achieving certification in early 2009.

[PANews]

Yes it is late... but ...

The certification spoken of may be EASA Certification bearing in mind that the news related to an EASA area show. That still shows a slight slip from December but fits in with statements made to the press in Prague during May.

[Brilliant Stuff]

Shame they would not let you have a closer look at the B429 on the stand unless you had a secret handshake or what not, it's not my fault I could only go on the Sunday.

[Troglodita]

Is it true that Bell are renaming the variant for the Nigerian market the Bell 419?

Just provide your bank account details and send a small deposit and we guarantee that you will be at the top of our delivery list! ;)

[chopper2004]

At Farnborough last week, had a chat with the Bell reps and found out something interesting that Peter Bond would be visiting the Bell chalet and that BAS had an interest in the 429. So there may be a possibility that BAS may go away from the traditional purchase of Eurocopter models??

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g209/longranger/DSC04082.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g209/longranger/DSC04077.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g209/longranger/DSC04095.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g209/longranger/DSC04080.jpg

And also the engineers said that the 429 easily beat the EC-135 in terms of performance especially at hot and higher altitudes

[Aser]

First time I see a conventional tail rotor with so much protection. :ok:

[Squat switch]

Those skids look a tad on the thin side!? :uhoh:

[tottigol]

"And also the engineers said that the 429 easily beat the EC-135 in terms of performance especially at hot and higher altitudes"

What engineers, Bell engineers?:rolleyes:

[SASless]

Just proves how you can tweak, stretch, morph, and digitally twist the grand ol' 206.

One of these days the Bell designers will be issued a blank piece of drafting paper....given cart blanche....and who knows what will come out of the new found freedom!

Of course they will have to retire a heap of folks to get down to the point they can hire young un's that have not become slavish Monk's busily copying the one set of drawings.

Perhaps they will one day think outside the box....Jet Box that is!

[Encyclo]

Not too many 206 part numbers on this one SASless. Pretty well clean sheet design from what I have seen.

I guess you're right; with only 330 sold so far Bell should try and do better next time :ugh:

[Shawn Coyle]

I'll go out on a limb here and defend Bell. Each manufacturer has a 'trademark' look. All cars do this. And so do most aircraft companies.
When you have a number of conflicting design requirements, and a given level of technology you're going to produce something that looks a certain way. Engineers try to be inventive about solving the problems, but everything becomes a compromise.
There's a good reason that all small cars look pretty close to the same. Can you tell a Honda from a Toyota when both are presented in profile at 100 yards? Good reason why they look close to the same. Both companies have the same design aim and the same technologies in metals and engines.
I think you'll see very little that's close to an original Bell 206 when you look very closely. A lot of time (and I mean a lot of time) went into this design.
I just wish they'd get it out and into production.

[SASless]

Well I guess it saves on wind tunnel hours if they all have the same shape.

The 412 even has 47 part number parts on it...with 204 part numbers too.

[rotorrookie]

WTF is it with this cockpit seats???
Was The Hunchback from Notre Dame in the design group or what:confused:
Has anyone here had the pleasure to stick his butt in them?

And how is the forward visbility from cockpit compaired EC-135 and MD-900?
Looks like a preatty big dash to me according to the photo

[estepo]

Any idea where I can get hold of one of the elaborate hairpieces the guy's got in the last photo?

I've checked the News of the World colour supplement, and I can't find a thing. :E

[chopper2004]

rotorrookie (http://www.pprune.org/forums/members/59681-rotorrookie)

I sat my behind in the cockpit and felt quite comfortable, a lot more room than the 902 (also 110% more than the Robinson 44 which I fly anyhow but thats another story!!:cool:). Also there is a good height clearance even for a 6ft jockey (I'm 5"7 anyhow so that doesnt really count)

Admittedly forward view isn't too bad, with the EC-135 and MD902, there is more at feet level but still was the 429...its good at knee level.

Plus seats go back and forth on a rail (unlike the Robbo 44 :D)

[ChopperFAN]

XkocOA8nUuU&feature=related

Simon :ok:

[ChopperFAN]

Found this only moments after

OWsOHs2M7DI&feature=related

Simon

[206Fan]

All the Bells and Whistles - Vertical Online (http://www.verticalmag.com/control/news/templates/?a=11201&z=11)

By Sir Shawn Coyle

[David Earley]

Bell 429 Achieves Certification
FORT WORTH, TX (July 1, 2009) – Bell Helicopter, a Textron Inc. (NYSE: TXT) company, today announced the certification by Transport Canada Civil Aviation (TCCA) of its newest light twin engine helicopter, the 429. Bell has also completed the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) certification requirements. First deliveries are scheduled to begin this month.

[alpineflyers]

I have actually flown the 429 2 weeks ago in France. Best performance I have ever experienced at 14000 feet (Mont Blanc), hovering OGE with a MTOW minus 700 lbs. There are virtually no vibrations at any speed. Extremely nice handling characteristics, much better than E........... Should be a winner.

[Shawn Coyle]

Sir Shawn??? Pleease!
I did enjoy flying the machine, and trust that comes across in the article. Several things that will be very noteworthy in the long run - the use of the Maintenance Steering Group 3 (MSG 3) in developing the continuing airworthiness of the machine will mean much better maintenance - it's already at 200 hours between inspections, which must be a first in helicopters. The thought given to the cabin layout and other parts of the fuselage will mean that the ever-present modifications will be easier and cheaper to get approved.
The performance and smoothness are outstanding - and the easy upgrade to a 4 axis autopilot means that Bell was really thinking about this.
It is the first new design from Bell since 1979, and the engineers really listened to the pilots - which was very nice to see.
And I guess I should get a commission on future sales...

[alouette]

The Bell 429 "should be a winner"?!? Finally Bell dumped this damn butterknife shaped blade design. I hope it's a winner!!!:ok:

[Spunk]

:ok:Being a happy 407 driver I wish Bell all the best with the 429 programm. Are there any performance charts available yet? :ok:

[alpineflyers]

The charts have not been made public yet. I have seen them and worked out some weights - impressive. Plus they do work in reality, something rare.

[helisteve]

Has the MAUW been increased?

[Shawn Coyle]

Currently max weight internal is 7,000 lbs, and not likely to go beyond that due to certification limits (that's a much as a Part 27 machine can weigh with an internal load).
External max weight is 7,500 pounds, but the additional weight has to be jettisonable.

[Shawn Coyle]

Just a comment about parts and using parts from older machines.
It's quite common to use parts already approved on another machine as they don't need to undergo an extensive (read $$$) approval process. The company also doesn't need to put in another part number into their supply system. There's less chance of screwing up and getting the wrong part number, and so on.
I remember being slightly shocked when I started work at Bell in 1984 on the model 400 (anyone remember that?) to find out it actually had Bell 47 part numbers. But I quickly understood why.
In the 429, Bell did use a 'clean sheet of paper' approach, and only used older model part numbers where appropriate. It is a new design.

[widgeon]

I recall S58 parts in the S61 and some gazelle part in the AS350/355.
wonder as the Blackhawk was entirely funded by US goverment if Sikorsky used many existing parts

[MightyGem]

it's already at 200 hours between inspections, which must be a first in helicopters.
Afraid not. The EC 135 has been at 400 hours between inspections for a couple of years now.

[Shawn Coyle]

Mighty Gem:
Thanks.
I stand corrected.

[handbag]

How significantly do those staggered tail rotor blades reduce the noise signature?

[Shawn Coyle]

Handbag:
I don't have any definitive numbers, but listening to one of the prototypes fly overhead, it was significantly quieter than other Bell models.

[handysnaks]

Afraid not. The EC 135 has been at 400 hours between inspections for a couple of years now.

Which we all know is a bit false MG as there are a quite a few supplementary inspections that occur every 100 hours or so:cool:

[docstone]

Any folks able to report real-world experience yet?

[widgeon]

The ref to the 429 in the rega thread made me think.

The last serial number noted on TC web site is 57008 , this is now registered in USA along with 57006. I thought they had certification and a full order book.
8 aircraft in 3 years is kinda slow.Any one know what is holding up deliveries.

[21stCen]

An article in Aviaiton International News (AIN) on 01 October 2009 showed the following forecast production rates:
The 429 production schedule remains at 40 planned for delivery next year, 80 in 2011 and 96 (representing full-rate production) in 2012.

Also in that same AIN article:
At the time of certification, Bell reported letters of intent (LOIs) for 301 aircraft. It is still in the process of converting these LOIs to purchase agreements, so it is not announcing converted firm orders yet. Holders of LOIs had until mid-September to confirm their orders, but the conversion process takes longer, because after the deadline, Bell marketers go back to buyers who cancelled their late-delivery aircraft and offer them earlier delivery slots. “We need to know the true conversions and slots available,” said Marshall.

Bell typically gets a 95-percent conversion rate for letters of intent, he said, although the current state of economies around the world could harm this rate.

Has Bell announced the number of converted firm orders still held? (it's been four months since the above article was released)

[Ian Corrigible]

As of late October the converted LOI total stood at 50 aircraft. The 429's production rate has been trimmed back to 25 aircraft this year and 40-50 in 2011.

I/C

[21stCen]

Thanks I/C,
Stunning -- out of 301 LOIs only 50 orders remain!? Has there been an official announcement from Bell (couldn't find that on an internet search)?
21stC

[9Aplus]

I like to buy some, on US company conditions and on claimed 5M USD price....
Any offers please? :E

[Ian Corrigible]

21stC - not yet, but the numbers are legit.

I/C

[TwoStep]

Bell say they are working on converting another 50 LoIs on top of the 50 that Ian Corrigible mentions. It's a slow start, but if they keep the faith...:}

[GeorgeMandes]

Looking at the economy over the last 18 months, and the cancellations and deferrals of every aviation manufacturer that I have seen numbers on, I suspect the shrinking of the order book has little to do with the 429, and a lot to do with the financial issues faced by the 429's customers.

While I personally wouldn't be thrilled with owning one of the first 50 serial numbers of any new helicopter or turbojet, I have a buddy with a bunch of time in the 429 and he says it is an incredible performer -- as in 4,000 fpm climb.

[CGWRA]

Why did bell develop the 429? what was wrong with the 427? looking on wikipedia it looks like the 427 has a higher usefull load. Imho the 427 looks quite a bit better too.

[Shawn Coyle]

What was wrong with the 427 compared to the 429?
Single hydraulic system, no stabilization or autopilot, not nearly as much room as the 429, lower Vne and cruise speed.
And I'm sure there are more reasons.

[widgeon]

If I am not mistaken the first AS355 ( E ) had single hydraulics Aerospatiale chose to upgrade rather than a complete new model ( although to add 200KG payload there must have been a lot of other stuff )

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/3aa81c81935cec4b862573d000597d93/$FILE/H11EU.pdf

The light twin has to be the hardest market out there as there are probably more choices available than in the SE catagory.

AW EC and MD have many years jump on Bell , it is going to be a long hard road for them I think.

[vfr440]

Spot on Shawn. I had a peripheral input, and aside from your observations, it would have been too expensive and heavy to incorporate all the discrete requirements for Cat A systems separation, never mind overcoming all the other limitations. What it HAS done, though, is to act as a proving ground for the 429's dynamics, and to highlight areas for improvement elsewhere; fuselage,cabin, eqpt config, maintenance access, system reliability etc. Pity they do not (yet) have a wheeled version available for the corporate market - A109E may have eaten their lunch on that one:( ~ vfr

[Shawn Coyle]

The fact that Bell did the same thing the big jets do in terms of maintenance review prior to development is amazing. First time this was ever done for helicopters as far as anyone knows.

[21stCen]

The fact that Bell did the same thing the big jets do in terms of maintenance review prior to development is amazing. First time this was ever done for helicopters as far as anyone knows.

Actually the first time the full MSG-3 process for establishing scheduled maintenance requirements to a vertical lift aircraft was adopted by a manufacturer (Bell) under FAA and TC approval was for the Bell Boeing 609 Tiltrotor (now known as BA609). Still underway though...


http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii305/tiltrotors/Hovering.jpg?t=1266260554

[rotormatic]

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

Federal Aviation Administration

SAIB Number:
SW-10-15

Issue Date:
02/05/2010

Subject:
Bell Helicopter Textron, Inc. (Bell) Model 429 Helicopters with Clam Shell Doors

Introduction

This Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB) advises you, owners, operators, and modifiers of Bell Model 429 helicopters, that some models may have clam shell doors installed as access to the baggage area. These doors are approved for external baggage access ONLY and are NOT approved for occupant egress or emergency exits.

Background

The Bell Model 429 helicopter was approved and type certificated by the Transport Canada Civil Aviation Authority (TCCA) on June 20, 2009 followed by FAA type certificate issued on June 30, 2009. The type design includes clam shell doors on the rear of the helicopter fuselage. These clam shell doors provide access to the baggage area from the outside only. These clam shell doors are not approved as emergency exits nor are they approved for occupant egress. The baggage area is approved as baggage area only and not as an occupied area.

Recommendations

We have received Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) applications for modification of the Bell 429 passenger configuration to an Emergency Medical Service (EMS) configuration that incorporates the baggage area and usage of the clam shell doors for loading and unloading occupants. In order to obtain approval for this modification, the STC applicant will be responsible for providing the appropriate data addressing the baggage area as an occupied area and appropriate data supporting usage of the clam shell doors for occupant egress. We recommend that STC applicants discuss this modification with their Aircraft Certification Office representative prior to formal submittal of the STC application in order to know the appropriate certification requirements and data needed for substantiation of an area for it to be approved as an occupied area, and the clam shell baggage door to be approved as an occupant egress door.

For Further Information Contact

Sharon Miles, Aerospace Engineer, 2601 Meacham Blvd., Fort Worth, Texas 76137; phone: (817) 222-5122; fax: (817) 222-5962.

[widgeon]

Hmm.
On the BK117 there was a mod so the doors could be opened by the attendant in the rear , will they now make a similar bulletin on Bk117 and EC145 or is this because it is aproved to a different FAR ?.
I recall a mod on the BO105 for bleed air heat that required the bleed air hoses that went from the engine comparment to the fwd cockpit to be double walled as they went through an occupied area .

Launch Customer Backs Away From Bell 429 : AINonline (http://www.ainonline.com/airshow-convention-news/hai-convention-news/single-publication-story/article/launch-customer-backs-away-from-bell-429/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews%5Bstory_pointer%5D=1)

Wonder if this is related.

[Aser]

http://www.verticalmag.com/control/news/articlefiles/13213-1.jpg
Priority 1 Air Rescue Completes Bell 429 Hoist Search and Rescue Configuration Milestone - Vertical Online (http://www.verticalmag.com/control/news/templates/?a=13213)
:D

Regards
Aser

[Avnx EO]

Mercy One's 429, N911ED, entered service last week in Des Moines. :ok: It was the helicopter on display at Heli-Expo in Houston, and it definitely had the clamshell doors in the back for loading and unloading patients. I'm assuming the FAA concerns were addressed.

[Revolutionary]

Alright so that's one 429 in service. Where are the other ones? Air Methods has already bailed on the remainder of their order. Has anyone else actually bought one, let alone put one in the field? Or has the entire order book evaporated? I'm not being flippant; I'm serious: the type has been certified (and presumably in production) for almost a year now. Going back to Ian Corrigible's post of late January, there should be about a dozen in service. Where are they? Can we have a headcount?

[9Aplus]

Good question :ok:

We would like to know :confused: where are they?!

[widgeon]

http://wwwapps2.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/ccarcs/aspscripts/en/current.asp
serial # 10 put on Canadian register 03/26 this year.s/n 1 and and 2 still reg to Bell Canada.
serial # 8 on faa reg since jan this year to mitsui
serial 3,5 7 9 reg to Bell USA.
serial # 6 is Air methods.

Serial # 4 is unknown status on either Cdn or US reg.

[Hugo2528]

Bell said at Heli-Expo it had converted 50 of the 300 letters of intent to orders and planned to produce 25 this year (check any of the trade magazines). One 429 is in service in Des Moines as Mercy One. One is in Japan doing customer demonstrations. Another is returning from the FIDAE show in Chile, where it did the same. Another was reported to have been delivered to Mitsui; it's probably undergoing completions. One's at Bell's Training Academy in Fort Worth for flight instruction. At least one other is probably being used for development and certification of kits, like the rescue hoist and floats.

[Hugo2528]

Has anyone ever seen a pre-emptive SAIB like this? When it was issued Feb. 5, Bell had said it had delivered two 429s. Each was undergoing completions overseen by FAA inspectors who presumably are familiar with rotorcraft airworthiness regs and know how to approve STCs. One hopes they would address occupant egress through aft clamshell doors. Whole thing seems strange. FAA keeps saying its got an overworked staff and too small a budget. Why spend precious time and money issuing a public notice about something already being surveilled by FAA inspectors? If FAA had an egress concern, couldn't the head of rotorcraft or overall aircraft certification direct his/her staff to monitor it in issuing STCs? What was the purpose or payoff in issuing a public bulletin? Does an FAA inspector really need an SAIB in his back pocket to give him the juice to do his job in the field?
As for "addressing the baggage area as an occupied area," the 429s I've seen have a continuous space from the pedals to the aft wall of the cabin structure. Why wouldn't that entire space be cleared as occupied space? After all, the aircraft was designed from the start as an EMS bird.

[Phoinix]

A technical question. I've noticed the 429 has a tail rotor at an angle looking from above, tilted backward. Why is that? I understand some helicopters (Sikorsky mostly) have a vertical tail rotor angle displacement, but longitudinal?

[Ian Corrigible]

6.1 degree offset at static condition, said to be worth 4 kt or so at cruise.

I/C

[Basher577]

Anyone know what’s happened to the wheeled version of the 429, Bell seem to have dropped all reference to them.

[Ian Corrigible]

The original goal was availability from ship #26, but the wheel gear has now been removed from the options list.

I/C

[eivissa]

One of the Bell test pilots told me today that they are still planning to build a wheeled version of the 429. I think he said it is planned for around autumn...

He showed me around the machine and I have to say...
-its quite ugly!
-even though it is Cat A all up to MTOM, it has quite a small payload.
-cabin space might compete with the 135, but from outside dimensions it looks more like a 145 and the 145 has much more cabin space.
-all the gadgets are great, but its all stuff Ive seen in Eurocopters and Agustas for years.
-Bell might have finally got it right and come up with something modern, but in my opinion they are now just as good as the Agustas and ECs around...not better, which should have been their aim.

...oh I liked the trend indications. Thats one great tool Ive been waiting for a long time.

[Brilliant Stuff]

trend indications?

Please explain to this foreigner.:O

[ATPMBA]

Anyone have any experience with the 429? Bell is totting it as the most adavanced light twin-engine heli in the world.

Bell is charging $29,000 (VFR) and $43,000 (IFR) USD for ground and flight training. That seems very steep!

[Doors Off]

Bell is totting it as the most adavanced light twin-engine heli in the world.


It is for them:}

The Bell 429 FatRanger. I am sure it is/will be great. But does sound pretty stiff $ wise, be interested to see what is in the course content. Might Google it.

Doors Off

[Thrust Nut]

I note that a Bell 429 has been doing demo flights at Gloucestershire (UK) this week with a major EMS operator.
Has anybody heard how Mercy One are getting on with theirs?

[helihub]

Program director at Mercy one seems happy (recent AIN report (http://www.ainonline.com/news/single-news-page/article/ems-bell-429-operator-reports-rock-solid-performance-24945/)) but remember that its operator Air Methods decided not to take any more of its planned buy of ten units after this one (AIN report at HeliExpo (http://www.ainonline.com/news/single-news-page/article/launch-customer-backs-away-from-bell-429-23873/))

[Corax]

All you need to know from Mercy One is that after they flew their new FatRanger they promptly cancelled their remaining orders for any more of those beasts. Nuff said.

[tottigol]

It's OK, they'll find a way to sell it to some "undisclosed" Central American nation for paramilitary use....or perhaps Irak
In the best tradition of Bell's products.:E

[Helico_ru]

And umm... what stump puller of a twin aircraft did Air Methods buy to replace the 429? Oh yeah I forgot,they bought single engined aircraft instead because they're cheaper to operate!

I love how people speak ill of an aircraft they have never seen or flown before.

[tottigol]

Seen it, but not flown it.
Actually not many pilots have flown it apart from the production test types, right?
Perhaps one of Bell's best guarded secrets.:E

[usmc helo]

Did you even bother to read the AIN article? Those are not Bell pilots and it appears they think very highly of the 429. It even seems that they prefer it to the 135 for speed, range and payload.

I have flown the 429, as well as the 135 and 145, and find that what the Mercy one pilots say about the aircraft is true. It's too bad that there is all sorts of negative press out there based on opinion and not fact!

[tottigol]

Sorry, I look at facts and sales.
When I first saw the mock-up @ CAMTS 2005, Bell's CSR gave us a candid 400/600 lbs payload figure in the EMS configuration.
That number seems to stick judging by the sales numbers and actual number crunching, sometimes you have to read past the glossy brochures and fancy .pdf.
I have flown enough Bell hours (on pretty much all of their LTE capable designs) to know where the truth is subtly merged with hype and myth.

Besides that, the 429 is not even aimed at competing with the 135, but rather the 145 and the 109 Grand New.

[Helico_ru]

As far as sales go, the recession hit every manufacturer pretty hard. Bell lost alot of the 429 sales mostly because of that. I would say it's not a very solid fact.

It is a heavy machine, but the guys at Bell are working to reduce the weight. It is NOT competing against the 145. It is certified under part 27 and not part 29. Because of that, the weight is limited to 7000lbs max gross weight.

I don't know why I argue because I feel it's pointless. People seem to have their minds made up before the aircraft actually has a chance to prove itself. It ticks me off because I know poeple who have worked on this project and they really put alot of effort to make this a good aircraft that they are proud of.

[aclark79]

I asked if we were going to be getting any for offshore, as an alternate to the 135. I was told a resounding no, due to the fact that after our required equipment was installed (floats, etc), average pilot (real company average as opposed to a new fresh from the military or from being a cfi) and fuel to reach the places it would need to go, that there would be roughly 200-250 pounds of payload left.

That may have been an exaggeration, but it was made clear that we aren't buying any and I was disappointed.

The first time I saw it I was told by the Bell rep that I should think of it as a twin engine 407, speed and payload wise. I wish it was, I liked sitting in it, but its gotta perform!

[Rotor George]

I have to agree with Helico ru and the fact that everyone is very quick to jump on the negative bandwagon before even flying or even seeing it in person.

.....it's all just options at this point.

Regards,
RG

[tottigol]

So I took the time and read the AIN report, did you?
It smells smack of another of Bell's publicity stunts, aimed squarely at those aeromedical programs run by...medical types and bean counters.

"The 135 was a good workhorse, but with the 429 we can still make 130 knots over the ground into a 30-knot headwind. It's a Corvette. This thing is fast."
That's 160 KTAS, right? Too bad the VNE is really 155 Kts.

"........, Mercy One program director, said power from the 429's twin P&WC PW207D1s (1,100 shp each) makes it natural for difficult scene work."

Too bad the 207 D1 really puts out 758 shp in 30 sec OEI mode.

What other crap can come out of the ONLY commercial operator of the Bell 429 in the USA?

[turboshaft]

Obviously a mix-up there with the xmsn rating. It is a strangely written article - the claim that Mercy One's aircraft can lift a 900lb payload with full fuel doesn't make any sense unless they are using a green, unconfigured aircraft, which sounds unlikely. Using the basic empty weight, full fuel (1453lb) plus a 200lb pilot would leave only 860lb useful load.

[tottigol]

Well, in all honesty Mr. Keough says that he "can SIT on the pad with 900 pounds [payload] and full fuel all day".

And that is likely what he does.

[usmc helo]

So because you don't like the 429 (and apparently Bell) you feel the need to disparage the Mercy One pilots and crew? I've actually met Dan Keough and the pilots at Mercy One and they are very professional group. And they are, to a pilot, very excited about the 429 and it's performance. While they noted that the EC135 technically has 100 lbs more usefull load they also noted that it doesn't inspire confidence on a hot day at MTOW while the 429 did. They also said that they were averaging 110kias in the 135 and 145kias in the 429. But what do they know, they just fly both aircraft daily and I'm sure that their knowledge is nowhere near that of yours, even though you don't.

[tottigol]

Look usmc, you first accused me of being biased because I was expressing a FACTS based opinion (scarce payload), while you ever so proudly (of course;)) were basing your hype on somebody else opinion of a new shiny toy and a (obviously sponsored) report on a magazine.
So I went and read the glowing report, then being a pilot and not just an enthusiast I compared their statements against FACTORY SPECS (as also someone else did) and those statements fell short of the truth.
Are you telling me I am biased?:=

Bell has known for over FIVE years of the 429s weight issues, and I think that AMC has sent the right message up the line.

[usmc helo]

totti, I will reiterate for you..."I have flown the 429, as well as the 135 and 145 , and find that what the Mercy one pilots say about the aircraft is true. " FYI when I was flying the 135 and 145 I was in the employ of AEC. I have compared all three aircrafts actual performance against that of the RFM, have you? Therefore my observations are based on more than "hype and someone elses opinon", unlike yours. You assume that the AIN article was 'obviously sponsored' (do you have evidence of that 'FACT' or is this also just opinion?). I pointed out that in a completely seperate and non related conversation on a visit to Mercy they expressed the same opinion, have you heard differently from them?
Yes Bell missed the mark on payload. I think there is a bit of confusion in the AIN article. If you look at what was said: "It is not a concern for us because our missions are typically less than 125 miles each way. I can sit on the pad with 900 pounds [payload] and full fuel all day." Given the usual mission range and the stated fuel burn it is safe to assume that they are off loading fuel. Given that Mr. Keough is not a pilot I think it is safe to assume that what he refers to as 'full fuel' is actually their standard mission fuel, not what you or I would refer to as full fuel. More of an honest mistake from a non pilot wouldn't you say?
Your other 'fact' wrt:
"The 135 was a good workhorse, but with the 429 we can still make 130 knots over the ground into a 30-knot headwind. It's a Corvette. This thing is fast." That's 160 KTAS, right? Too bad the VNE is really 155 Kts.
Did you bother to convert to TAS? KDSM sits at 958'msl. They probably fly at 2000'msl or higher. At 2000'MSL the 429s TAS is 157 ktas(153 kias vne). At 4000' msl TAS is 160 ktas(151 kias vne). At 6000'msl the 429s TAS is 162 (149 kias vne). And yes it will fly that fast. It's this speed factor that would, presumably, allow them to takeoff with less than a full fuel (as you and I would call it) and still safely accomplish their mission with a reserve.

[ylhelico]

That was very well put USMC HELO, looks like you left Tottigol speachless. Well done! :ok:

[Rotor George]

^ +1 :ok:

[eivissa]

trend indications?

Please explain to this foreigner.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/embarass.gif

Its an indication on the display that lets you know when a certain value is changing like "oil pressure rising". This way you might be able to focus on a problem that is still developing and not being warned when things have already gone wrong...

Probably mostly useful on longer flights when alertness is low and regular instrument cross checks are forgotten.

[tottigol]

No he didn't Yhelico, I am on vacation in the Caribbeans and I only occasionally check the web for what I am interested on.
I'd say call me back when:
1) Bell solves the weight problem.
2) Bell gets more than 15 429s registered in the USA working on EMS contracts.

I may be retired by then.

Facts, not words.

Bye for now, I am enjoying the vacation.

[DennisK]

Ref the B429 and if Shawn Coyle or any other 'in the know' bod is on thread just now .... tomorrow I'm doing an air test and write-up for our UK 'BLADES' journal and would like to add a note on the the 'wheels' position.

??? Are these on the factory list for production ... ever or never.
Secondly - is the PATS T/R totally dead & buried.
And if anyone has the info, and apart from Air Methods - are there any further machines now actually in service. HEMS or whatever.

Thanks in advance and I hope I enjoy the ride as much as Shawn.

Dennis Kenyon

[PANews]

Georgina HJ and I were in the aircraft Monday and as I guess the Bell pilot will confirm...

Wheels in the fullness of time, seems there are a number of 'future' scenarios where wheels will be unavoidable.

PATS Tail rotor unlikely in the short term as the current one has extremely good 'bite' and [my reading on this] why get something that might not have such grip on the environment [in the short or long term].... There are no systems out there that serve demonstrate that a PATS type anti-torque system is an outright customer winner.

I have no comment on the other question, that will need an American input.

[Shawn Coyle]

Dennis:
My spies tell me little is being done on the wheels option.
Enjoy the flight! (I'm in the UK at the moment)

[ppheli]

I believe nine are delivered ex factory all for EMS operators but only one is in service. The others are presumably in some stage of the completion process

Dennis, check out the fuel consumption towards max speed as I hear it is poor. Just the typical speeds EMS operators would use

[widgeon]

s/n 15 and 16 are on the Canadian register ( presume in final production flight test ) also another 6 on Canadian register registered to Bell. S/n 6 and 8 on US register to Air methods and Mitsui Busan , Other 7 in US all registered to Bell. Anyone know the s.n of the demonstrator ( or N number ).
Are the EMS mods being done by Edwards ?

[PANews]

The demonstrator currently doing the rounds in the UK is the 'European' demonstrator which has graced Prague, Germany, Farnborough in recent weeks C-FTNB which a quick search tells me is 57002.

[Jordan23]

When Bell only had the original red and blue 429's flying from Mirabel, the blue one passed about 2-3 nm from me when I was in an R44 just South of MTL.

[Savoia]

Dennis K was meant to conduct his review of the 429 today. Hope it went well!

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/4/4/5/1748544.jpg (http://www.pprune.org/photo/Bell-Helicopter/Bell-429-GlobalRanger/1748544/L/&sid=603fafc0d62aaf89fee68956a22fae66)

C-FTNB Bell 429 GlobalRanger in flight over the Alps
23 June 2010

[Encyclo]

Ok, Let's see,

One demo in Europe, one demo in Japan, one in Texas at the Bell school, one in DesMoines doing EMS and a bunch being customized all over the place.

Should have a pretty good population by year end :ok:

[Ned-Air2Air]

Just got confirmation from friend high up in Bell that Mercy one is the only 429 in operation at the moment but more being delivered to customers later this year, both in the USA and overseas.

Ned

[Rotor George]

Here's a photo montage of a few.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z150/blanchettephotography/Misc/429montage.jpg

[carsickpuppy]

Two 429's going to Delhi, one in late 2010 and one in early 2011..

[widgeon]

Is it a trick of the light or are there significant soot deposits on 57003 and 54802, funny the other 2 light coloured ones look clean . I must say though it is a nice looking helicopter , not sure what it is about the shape of the Bell.

[Bravo73]

Here's a photo montage of a few.


The skid design seems to have changed from the original 3 machines to the newer aircraft. Does anybody know why this might be?

[matt82]

I heard something that the skidgear design violates some Euroc***
patents.
The changed skidgear design looks not very smart on the 429.

[Hell Man]

Gotta agree with Matt82, the skid gear with 'toes' sticking out totally sucks!

But, when we first saw the connected 'loop' design on the Colibiri this wasn't a Eurocopter innovation ... Hughes originally came up with this configuration for the Explorer in a 'double loop' (paperclip) style. Quite why they didn't put it into production I don't know!

[Rotor George]

Montage update (http://www.pprune.org/5836031-post175.html). Added N429NA in it's gorgeous new paint scheme.:ok:

[Basher577]

Flew one today at Blackbushe, awesome aircraft and beats the opposition hands down imo!

[Thrust Nut]

Tell us more, please, Basher.
Why does it beat the opposition and in what role(s)?

[belly tank]

I had a fly of N10984 today here in NSW, Australia for about 20 mins.

Very nice ship.....and alot bigger in real life!!:ok:

[ChopperFAN]

Any idea if the 429 will be venturing down as low as Adelaide? would love some pics of it

I like it, I was always a fan of the 427, and this seems to be very well built

Simon :ok:

[BigMike]

Gold Coast - Australia, today.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/Micksphotos/429-1.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/Micksphotos/429-5.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/Micksphotos/429-2.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/Micksphotos/4293.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/Micksphotos/429-4.jpg

Nice helicopter. OEI performance is pretty good. Very roomy, nice ride in the back, fast, well thought out. Rep said they are addressing the weight issues. Very pilot friendly.

[helisdw]

In the fourth image, the 429's IAS on the PFD shows 46/47kt yet the 'steam gauge' shows closer to 55kt. Is there a simple explanation for such a discrepancy? I realise there are dual pitot-static tubes on the nose - do they feed the instruments separately and thus account for the difference?

Just wondering for curiosity's sake and my own education!

[ECB4]

If you are correct about the pitot's (one on each side) there could be a discrepancy with the ball out to the left. Could be paralex (spell) error?

[helisdw]

I'd noticed the slip ball being off centre but wasn't sure how much that might effect the pitot airflow/readings - the discrepancy is around 15% at this flight configuration. I also realise that the pitot/IAS isn't overly accurate at low speeds but had always thought this was sub-30kt.

Having recently read (and re-read) Shawn Coyle's "Torque Talk" article on the Vertical website about the slip ball, I am as confused as ever about its true function! NB This is not a comment on the author's writing ability but merely my level of comprehension!

If it is parallax error, I assume that would therefore mean that the glass has a common input from one pitot and the 'steam gauge' the other?

[Shawn Coyle]

helidsw:
The other reader has been found!!!

[Rotor George]

Excellent read BTW. :ok:

[helisdw]

Shawn - I am proud and more than a little humbled to be your other reader!

At the risk of drifting (or should that be slipping?) from the thread... When flying a machine with a slip string in addition to a slip ball, which would you recommend is used? Is it trial and error, as in the case of the Swiss Alouette, or is there a more 'scientific' method?

Simon

[Shawn Coyle]

helidsw:
Let's start a new thread on that...

[jeffg]

Bell Helicopter certifies industry leading Wide Area Augmentation System capability (http://www.bellhelicopter.com/en/company/pressReleases/PR_10_0907_augmentationSystem.cfm)

FORT WORTH, Texas (September 7, 2010) - Bell Helicopter, a Textron Inc. company is pleased to announce the introduction of a best in class certification of precision Wide Area Augmentation System (WAAS) enabled glide path capability on the Bell 429.

The Bell 429 is the only helicopter available in the market with this technology certified for 9 degree localizer precision with vertical guidance (LPV) approaches at a minimum velocity for instrument procedures (Vmini) of 45 knots. Such a low minimum velocity allows for the Bell 429 to fly LPV procedures in steep approach conditions.

Using a modernized cockpit layout and navigation solutions the Bell WAAS capability, as demonstrated on the Bell 429, increases helicopter safety, mission efficiency and environmental sensitivity, while reducing precision approach limitations and associated operational costs. Many flights are grounded annually due to poor weather conditions, the WAAS capability allows for point-in-space approaches as low as 250 foot visibility, increasing operational mission time for Bell 429 customers.

Presenting a best in class navigational capability, Bell's 429 WAAS implementation changes the helicopter operating environment, allowing for the creation of a safer rotorcraft IFR system, providing a platform to put those capabilities to use and allowing for precision approaches in low altitude, urban areas.

Designed, developed, implemented and tested by a government industry partnership led by Bell Helicopter, the continuing airspace infrastructure project will facilitate the creation of public use rotorcraft solutions and provide a solid framework for additional next generation national airspace developments.

The Bell Helicopter led team includes the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS) Program Office, the FAA Flight Standards Organization, Hickok and Associates, Air Methods Corporation, and the Mercy Medical Team.

"It is because of this collaboration we are able to provide the helicopter industry and our customers with innovative solutions that exceed their mission requirements," said Nick Lappos, Bell Helicopter chief technology officer. "It is only fitting that this capability be available exclusively on the world's most advanced light twin helicopter, the 429."

Bell's WAAS technologies include glide path angles certified to 9 degrees at speeds of 45 knots, allowing 429 customers to operate their aircraft at a safer altitude, avoid obstacles and descend precisely to their landing site.

"Bell's 429 will now be equipped with cutting edge, state-of-the-art navigational technology and LPV capability," said Larry D. Roberts, senior vice president, commercial business. "The 429 is the only helicopter in its class capable of performing fully coupled four axis auto-pilot LPV approaches, this is a significant development and capability."

This technology is available immediately on all new Bell 429s delivered out of the Bell Helicopter Mirabel, Canada facility. Bell Helicopter is exploring the use of this technology on additional Bell aircraft.

"WAAS technologies, when combined with the 429, provide all operators engaged in IFR operations a vehicle to complete missions that were unthinkable in the past. This total aircraft solution will increase the number of missions that are flown and ultimately save more lives," said Roberts.

[Rotor George]

Bell Helicopter Scores First Order for Bell 429 in China
Wednesday, September 15, 2010 - Bell Helicopter

ZHUHAI, CHINA (September 15, 2010) – Bell Helicopter, a Textron Inc. (NYSE: TXT) company, has received its first 429 customer order in the People’s Republic of China. The order was confirmed during the Bell 429 demonstration tour in Zhuhai, China on September 15, 2010.

Sold to Mr. Ren Jianjun, a prominent industrialist from Hebei province, this is the first Bell 429 scheduled for delivery in China. Mr. Ren, an aviation enthusiast and pilot, also owns and operates a Bell 206B-3 JetRanger.

Helping facilitate the purchase of the aircraft was Heliflite China. Headquartered with maintenance facilities in Xi’an, Shaanxi province, Heliflite China provides customers with purchasing support and operational assistance.

“The Bell 429 was designed with a global mission scope, and is particularly well suited for the multi-mission roles in the Asia Pacific region, and in particular, China,” said Larry D. Roberts, senior vice president Commercial Business. “The 429 is truly a new force in the marketplace and will appeal to the discerning customer who is interested in reliability, performance and maintenance-cost containment. We are honored to partner with Mr. Ren and bring the first 429 to the People’s Republic of China.”

Customer response to the 429 has been very positive and interest continues to build among potential buyers for its use in private operations, corporate transport and utility missions, emergency medical services and for civil government agencies.

With its superior Category A capability, speed and versatility, spacious cabin, excellent maintainability, and hot and high performance, the 429 sets the standard for 21st century aircraft. The Bell 429 meets the latest requirements of Part 27 airworthiness rules, set in 2007, which are more stringent than the requirements, set a decade or more ago, under which competing light twins were certified.

Designed using the Maintenance Steering Group 3 (MSG-3) process, the 429 is the only helicopter flying whose maintenance program is approved by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) and Transport Canada.

In August, the Bell 429 continued its world tour in the Asia Pacific region with customer demonstrations in Australia, Hong Kong and China. More than 1,500 customers have experienced the 429's speed, performance and spacious cabin firsthand during the world tour, which is scheduled to continue later this year in Africa and the Middle East.

Bell Helicopter, a wholly owned subsidiary of Textron Inc., is an industry-leading producer of commercial and military, manned and unmanned vertical-lift aircraft and the pioneer of the revolutionary tiltrotor aircraft. Globally recognized for world-class customer service, innovation and superior quality, Bell's global workforce serves customers flying Bell aircraft in more than 120 countries.

Textron Inc. is a multi-industry company that leverages its global network of aircraft, defense, industrial and finance businesses to provide customers with innovative solutions and services. Textron is known around the world for its powerful brands such as Bell Helicopter, Cessna Aircraft Company, Jacobsen, Kautex, Lycoming, E-Z-GO, Greenlee, and Textron Systems. More information is available at Textron Home (http://www.textron.com) <http://www.textron.com/> .


http://www.bellhelicopter.com <http://www.bellhelicopter.com>

Bell Helicopter Textron Inc. Post Office Box 482, Fort Worth, TX 76101-0482

Press Contact:
Bridget Hall
817-280-7963 (office) or 817-964-0334 (mobile)
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>

[jayteeto]

I have not flown it yet, but have had the cockpit tour with the demonstrator pilot. It is well thought out and I would love to fly it as my works machine. Downside, the range figures quoted are all calculated at well below cruise speeds that we would use. Fuel burn is a little suprising :ooh: once you crank up the speed. Pity, I would like one.....

[widgeon]

First Bell 429 in Canada Delivered - Vertical Helicopter Industry News (http://www.verticalmag.com/control/news/templates/?a=14765)

Some better news .

[norwyreq]

Please tell me that you can order one with strip instruments instead of archaic round ALT/ASI. I understand that many out there have a serious RC factor but please give those who have embraced the future the choice.

[Thrust Nut]

I am also exposed to both tapes and dials, as I'm sure you are norwyreq, and I personally prefer dials. I find them easier to read quickly during the scan because I feel that I get a better quality of information from them......... just my personal preference.

[Rotor George]

And another one soon in the TO area.:ok:

"A second 429 for the Canadian market is expected to be delivered to another private operator in the Toronto area by the end of September."

[GeorgeMandes]

From AIN today:

Bell Ramps Up 429 Output, Looks at 206 Replacement
Bell Helicopter is ramping up production of its 429 light twin and aims to have 33 off the line by year-end and more than 80 completed by the end of next year. Bell senior vice president Larry Roberts said the company is continuing to wring weight out of the helicopter, via changes in manufacturing and by pursuing regulatory solutions, and is progressing with development of a version with wheel landing gear. Bell recently announced new 429 sales in China and Japan, as well as its intention to compete for an Australian Defense Forces contract for 14 to 30 training helicopters. Roberts said the 429 is the beginning of what Bell predicts will be its resurgence in the civil sector, a strategy that will include revisions to legacy products to be announced next year. He also revealed that Bell is evaluating a replacement for the 206B-3 single, which is slated for discontinuation this year. “We think that an entry-level helicopter for a large OEM is something that needs to be considered,” he said.

[widgeon]

s/n 22 is on Canadian register this month so I would imagine 4 more per month is not too much of a stretch. Good news for the industry.

[ZoedR]

You're little behind the times my friend, the "Bell with twin pack" as you call it could be deemed to have been the 427, if you've flown it you'll know its far from just a twin engine Bell.
From what I hear from my colleagues in the US this aircraft will outsurpass the EC155 by a long way with its avionics and vertical lift capacity.
My only "criticism" of the Bell 427 is the lack of width in the pax cabin but, to fly, it goes like .......!

[widgeon]

s/n 24 now on US register N429VA , Bell registered owner.

[nasa]

I'm currently evaluating the 429 for a client. Can anyone tell me with absolute certainty and back up with hard figures, exactly what will the machine do. Fuel burn, LRC TAS, real MT Weight, and how far with 5 pax & 2 drivers.

[Shell Management]

Nasaboy - how will you write that up?
"Some guy on PPRuNe says..."

[nasa]

Thanks for the intelligent input SM :=. My question was aimed at those that have firsthand knowledge of the aircraft as opposed to Book Figures. I’m looking for pointers from those who can tell me about the “Real World”. I don’t know about you, but I tend to use peripheral vision as opposed to tunnel vision. FW!!!!!!!!! :ugh:

[vfr440]

Good on you nasa, tell him like it is:ok:

You could pm Denissimo? He flew the machine whilst in UK recently, unless I am wrong. Was pretty positive about it, and could give you an objective view on the 'real thing' as opposed to the book figures. (I've got a feeling there may be his flight test refereced on Prune somewhere......
VFR

[DennisK]

For NASA ... See UK's BLADES magazine (LOOP.aero (http://www.loop.aero)) for more info on the B429. (issue August 2010.) Also Georgina Hunter has completed an air test in'Helicopter Life' magazine.

Best wishes. Dennis Kenyon.

[nasa]

Appreciate the input guys........Actually had some info last nite from a guy who has just finished the 429 school. His experiences are very informative.

[carsickpuppy]

November 22, 2010

Bell Helicopter, a Textron Inc. company, today announced the sale of two (2) 429 helicopters to Chevron, one of the largest integrated energy companies in the world. The aircraft will be servicing Chevron's oil & gas platforms in the Gulf of Mexico with deliveries planned in early 2011.

"All of us at Bell Helicopter are delighted that Chevron, a long time customer, is the first company in the oil and gas market to see the value and the impact the 429 can have on their operation," said Larry Roberts, Senior Vice President, Commercial Business for Bell Helicopter. "Bell Helicopter is committed to the development and support of the energy and utility market. The 429 which is outfitted with a modern avionics suite capable of integrating Automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast (ADS-B) has the ability to operate 7 days a week in harsh, remote and unforgiving environments with superior reliability and productivity, "said Roberts.

Chevron, headquartered in San Ramon, California, is one of the world's largest integrated energy companies. They are engaged worldwide in every aspect of the crude oil and natural gas industry, including exploration and production, manufacturing, marketing and transportation, chemicals manufacturing and sales, geothermal energy, and power generation.

Ken Kersker, Gulf of Mexico Manager at Chevron said, "Upgrading our fleet with the Bell 429 will yield us performance and cost improvement immediately. The fact that it is already compliant to the standards of the Oil and Gas Producers (OGP) made it an easier decision - Bell understands our business and its challenges."

The 429 was certified in mid-2009 as a single-pilot instrument flight rules (SPIFR), Category A helicopter under the latest requirements of Part 27 airworthiness rules by Canadian, US and European authorities. It is designed and built to more stringent airworthiness standards than any other light, twin-engine helicopter.

The Bell 429 has the largest cabin in its class - providing unsurpassed headroom and ample legroom, with the front row of passenger cabin seats easily reconfigurable or effortlessly removed to convert from passenger to cargo service or any combination of the two. Its compliance to the standards of the Oil and Gas Producers (OGP) and its performance specifications make it especially suitable to offshore oil & gas support.

The 429's maintenance program is the only one in the helicopter industry that's based on Maintenance Steering Group 3 (MSG-3) practices that are the foundation of airlines' unprecedented reliability. The 429 is the first rotorcraft to have its maintenance program approved by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) to these high standards.

Source: Bell Helicopter

[widgeon]

Good to see they made their target s/n 33 on cdn register on dec 23.

[PANews]

In the mailbox today was a surprise message to state that Neil Marshall the Program Manager on the 429 has moved on. As he puts it.... 'After 6 wonderful years back at Bell working on the model 429 development & certification I have moved on ....'

He is now the Program Manager for the model 47 helicopter at Scott's - Bell 47 Inc., based in Le Sueur, Minnesota, USA. Scott's acquired the model 47 Type Certificate from Bell Helicopter last year.

It seems a strange way to go after having lived with the newest Bell technology for so long! Welcome to Scott's-Bell 47 (http://www.scottsbell47.com)

[OBX Lifeguard]

I really want to like this helicopter...but what I've read so far leaves me flat. Heading to Heli-Expo in a coupla weeks and hope Bell can make a by the numbers case for the 429 in the Air Ambulance role over the EC135 or 145.

I flew the 145 and liked it....but am unhappy with the support we're receiving lately from Eurocopter on our BK-117...:*

[OBX Lifeguard]

Just heard from one of my Flight Paramedics that at the recent Air Medical Transport Conference he attended, Bell was "unofficially" touting a forthcoming 500 lb. gross weight increase....

[malabo]

Yeah, its kind of like the 139, with a couple of overpowered engines lending it to easy gross weight increases. Shawn Coyle did a pretty close study on it and posted and published. I'd like to hear some "working" reports too - the factory guys are always optimistic.

Was in one a few weeks ago and quite liked it. Only helicopter I know of that is certified for flight from either right or left seat, maybe means nothing to you European guys but means we can long-line from the left seat here without taking a black felt pen to the RFM limitations.

On the IFR side it is approved for 9 degree LPV (using GPS to fly an ILS like approach, except better), again means nothing to Europe were you aren't allow to turn on a GPS, but a big deal on this side of the Atlantic for EMS.

On the comparison side, it is a six pass seat helicopter, like the 135. Gross on the 135 is 6500, 7000 on the 429, I think about 8000 for the eight pass seat 145. The 145 is a stone-age relic compared to the EFIS, FADEC, automated 429.

Good to see some competition in the light-twin market.

[victor papa]

Malabo, does your reference to the EC145 include the EC145T2? Just wanna know as I think the 145T2 is not in your described catogery and must at least ne specified as it is type certified now and available for order?

[OBX Lifeguard]

The real deal for me is useful load. My Med crew don't like it when their fat pilot tells them they gotta loose 15 lbs or get off the helicopter...:O

[victor papa]

Can't agree more OBX! one thing I have learned-nevermind the individuals weight, nobody can load a helicopter like a paramedic! If there is space it will be filled!

[OBX Lifeguard]

And they can break a bowling ball with a feather! Pilot's helmets in for repairs... 1 per decade...Paramedic's helmets in for repairs...2 per month. Can't wait to see what they do with NVGs....:bored:

[HeloDrvr]

Our corporate flight dept. is looking for a 429:hmm:. We are already negotiating with Bell, but knowing the history of the aircraft, I thought there may be someone out there with a delivery position that they aren't interested in.

If anyone has one (or a lead), please PM me.

Thanks.

[krypton_john]

http://nzcivair.********.com/2011/02/bell-429-zk-ixw-first-of-type.html

Nice - anyone had time on one yet?

[spinwing]

Mmmm ...

Not flown in one yet ... BUT ... I got to climb all over one in Riyadh last year as it was flown through the M/E on a Demo tour ...

Looks Ok .... apparently quite a good performer according to the demo pilot ...
but then they always tend to be OTT with their evaluations ... so I guess time and operational experience will tell ....


:hmm:

[baitair]

we are going to buy a new bell 429, the bell sales broker recommend spares and tools vaule above usd1.1M, we are green hand for it, is there any big guy can help me to figure out, mail :[email protected]; I wii give detailed spares and tools list.

[chopper2004]

Yesterday, Raytheon Australia has contract to provide 3 x Bell 429 from 2012 as interim trainer to the RAN, replacing the AW109E Power in 823 Squadron.

First for the 429 in terms of training and first for military based role

[jesusnutt]

It is quite surprising that the 429 was selected, and given its immaturity, rather risky; as a training machine it may have some value, in the same way as the good old 47 was useful as a training machine, but as a mission machine it is competing against much more capable machines.

Our organisation carried out an in-depth and comprehensive evaluation of the 429 over a lengthy period, and came to the conclusion that the 429 is still very much a ‘work in progress’, more influenced by accountants than impassioned engineers, and this was very disappointing, considering Bell’s hype.

Performance wise it is surprisingly slow with very heavy fuel consumption; at around 7000lbs down to about 6400lbs, it is achieving only 125kts at max continuous AEO power on FLI, at an average fuel burn of 600lbs/hour over a period of 90 minutes. This was at altitudes between 2500’ and 4000’ and ambient temperatures 25C to 20C.

The noise in the passenger cabin is reminiscent of the S61! A deafening gearbox howl and annoying airstream white noise. Above about 90kts the right hand door/window begins banging from the advancing blade pressure wave, and at 125 kts it’s pretty much like sitting next to a pneumatic road drill. Right hand cabin window percussion amplitudes being measured in centimeters! Quite frightening for pilots, never mind passengers.

On a positive note, the cabin and baggage area is roomy for a light twin, but is undoubtedly why the 429 is so slow and thirsty. The build quality is quite poor when compared with other types and the cabin seats are not easy to remove and refit.

Generally, apart from the cacophony going on in the passenger cabin above 90kts, the rotor vibration levels are quite good in the hover, through translation and at cruise speeds. It also handles quite well AP in and AP out, indeed AP out it is more stable than its older sister.

The EFIS system is rather dated, and not at all intuitive, the coupled functions are basic, and there are no warnings if, for example, the aircraft deviates from a selected altitude. Of concern is the use of Rogerson Kratos displays, which have established a fairly solid reputation for unreliability, and have been rejected by other helicopter OEM’s. None of the latest situational awareness avionics are available on the 429, only basic equipment, and again this is disappointing.

On the ground, 4 sets of wheels are necessary to ground handle the 429, and fitting these and manoeuvring the heli is both time consuming, potentially dangerous to feet, and challenging. The requirement to put webbing straps around the front and rear of the skids to prevent them splaying out is something you might expect of a home built, and rather ignominious for a manufacturer that once had a proud reputation as a helicopter builder. Carrying around scaffolding is bad enough but when it is not strong enough for ground handling, why not just fit wheels?

The tail rotor pitch linkage is almost Victorian in its mechanical design, and the length of the pitch links looks vulnerable and lacking in durability.

Note too that the main rotor flies in 2 distinct planes similar to the 412 and people will be familiar with the idiosyncrasies of tracking and balancing the 412.

Bell support is no longer like it was in the old days, now it is slow, indecisive and disinterested. Which is unfortunate, because the unreliability of their machines demands better support. Failures of the DAU and Rogerson Kratos displays are particularly common and Bell’s severe lack of distributed spares holding is particularly troublesome.

It is understandable that buyers are steering clear of the Bell 429 in favour of far superior machines from their competition.

Bell, at the small helicopter end of its portfolio, now appears to be directed not by engineers, technocrats or experienced aviators with design authority, in touch with the needs of the market place, but by accountants, whether internally or from Textron, and you will not find the passion for flying, design excellence, advancement, or engineering know-how that exists within their more capable competition.

[SASless]

Our corporate flight dept. is looking for a 429. We are already negotiating with Bell, but knowing the history of the aircraft, I thought there may be someone out there with a delivery position that they aren't interested in.



knowing the "history" of the aircraft....why would you want one of the darn things?

Surely....for the money...there are far better choices out there!

[Helico_ru]

Our organisation carried out an in-depth and comprehensive evaluation of the 429 over a lengthy period, and came to the conclusion that the 429 is still very much a ‘work in progress’, more influenced by accountants than impassioned engineers, and this was very disappointing, considering Bell’s hype.


Care to specify which organization it is you are working for?

[FoxtrotAlpha18]

Just to clarify....

The RAN DIDN'T select the 429 for RMI.

Raytheon had the previous RMI contract with the A109E and got a three year extension. The spec basically calls for a helo in that class, but it was Raytheon's decision to bring the 429 in rather than extend the 109s, or go with something else such as the Ec135 or even the GrandNew.

The fact that Raytheon has teamed with Bell and Hawker Pacific to pitch the 429 for HATS may or may not be purely coincidental - maybe they'll work some of the bugs out of the "work in progress" in time for the HATS RFT.

[Matari]

For a bit more balanced perspective:Rotor & Wing Magazine :: The Bell 429: A New Hope (http://www.aviationtoday.com/rw/personalcorporate/exectransport/34827.html)

Up front, Bell rejected analog instruments and installed a single-pilot IFR-certified glass cockpit in a low panel that doesn’t obstruct the pilot’s field of view. Digital information includes IGO, OGE and Cat-A profiles, weight and balance calculations, exceedance monitoring and a primary limit indicator; a specific spot on the primary multi-function display that shows whichever engine or rotor parameter is closest to being exceeded at any given time

En route back to Paris, I pushed C-FTNB into a 130-KIAS sprint across the French countryside in search of any unwanted cabin noise from ill-fitting doors or windows. None was detected. Meanwhile, the aircraft continued to handle smoothly with no unpleasant sensations.

Track-mounted seats allows cabin seating to be reconfigured or removed in minutes for maximum utility

All-in-all, the Bell 429 is a good aircraft. It flies well — not great, not remarkable — but well. It is, however, comfortable, has plenty of power and it even looks fairly nice.

No mention of "frightening" noises, "Victorian" and "vulnerable" pitch change links, "home built" design or other such nonsense.

[tottigol]

Yes, Rotor & Wing magazine...:hmm:

[Rotor George]

Quote:
Our organisation carried out an in-depth and comprehensive evaluation of the 429 over a lengthy period, and came to the conclusion that the 429 is still very much a ‘work in progress’, more influenced by accountants than impassioned engineers, and this was very disappointing, considering Bell’s hype.


Care to specify which organization it is you are working for?

Eurocopter :oh:

[SASless]

If one wishes to be invited back to the factory in the future....well...one should not pee in your own Cornflakes!:uhoh:

That and I suppose the risk of losing advertising revenue would never enter into an editorial decision in a trade magazine.:rolleyes:

[tottigol]

How many EMS programs are replacing Eurocopter products with 429?
How many are replacing Bell products with other better performing brands?

Therein lies the answer.

[SansAnhedral]

I guess I am wasting my time reading any publication, then, since nobody shows such pure virtues of altruism to publish editorials on their own dime not supported by advertising revenue.

Doubtful Bell got their money's worth with statements like "not great, not remarkable"...perhaps they have to save up to shill other articles?

Bell's 429 Turns the Corner (http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/business_aviation/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3A2f16318d-d960-4e49-bc9f-86f1805f2c7fPost%3A1fb81ead-9fd6-4d9c-8483-bd95ee34af5f)

[Shawn Coyle]

Bell has evidently just issued a press release indicating they have received approval from Transport Canada for an increased maximum gross weight of 7,500 pounds.
That should help sales!

[PANews]

There is a hint in the press release that suggests that even they may not be expecting a smooth ride over this latest weight growth.

They are in receipt of Transport Canada approval for a 500 lbs. weight increase to 7,500 lbs [3,400kg] in order to meet calls from customers and potential customers to overcome the high empty weight of the model and this is an answer to those requests.

The release points out that the additional gross weight now permits operators to equip the Bell 429 with additional options including Helicopter Terrain Awareness Warning System (HTAWS), a radar altimeter, cockpit voice/flight data recorder and strobe lights........ although it does [or can] translate to greater range and loiter times.

"With Transport Canada’s approval now in hand, Bell Helicopter will formally petition the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) for concurrence with Transport Canada on a 500 lbs. exemption to Part 27 with respect to the 7,000 lbs. maximum gross weight limit."

The new weight limit blows a major hole in the ceiling of the provisions of JAR27 and at 3400kg places the airframe in JAR29 territory. The Bell 429 then is more an alternative to the EC145 rather than the 3000kg AW109/MD902 and EC135 market sector it was launched into.

Will EASA be kind?

[Shawn Coyle]

Transport Canada is the original provider of the type certification. There are bilateral agreements with EASA and the FAA that should (and I stress should) mean that they accept this new certification.

[RVDT]

At least it's an admission that the thing was too heavy in the first place!

When seeing the machine for the first time and being told it was a Part 27 aircraft I couldn't help wondering
if Bell had reinvented basic physics or the thing was built from unobtainium.

Makes you wonder if it was always designed with the max weight increase as a given.

It also raises the question of why it would not be able to comply with Part 29 anyway.

As far as I am aware the only method of getting an "exemption" from the TC requirements is an STC unless you change the TC requirements or get gravity adjusted.

The "spin" in the release is priceless on its own. Even SC nearly has the "Bell" goggles on! :sad:

[HueyDog]

It is odd that we have people flying in a 429 every day and nobody has reported any 'cacophony' above 90 knots. The owner has been happy with the noise level in the rear. Jesusnutt, are you sure your evaluation team actually flew one?

The extra 500 lbs will be a welcome addition as soon as the FAA accepts it. I never felt that it had a weight problem before, but extra weight allowance is always welcome.

[PANews]

Hueydog,

It is pretty clear that the aircraft has a weight problem and Bell do not deny it.

That a so called JAR 27 airframe comes into the arena weighing so over the JAR 27 specs that we here are asking questions as to whether it is not actually a JAR 29 - that sort of underlines the problem Bell face.

One potential UK customer for multiple units has stood on the touchline waiting .... and waiting .... for the 429 to meet its JAR27 specification weights since they placed orders for it years ago.

Now that customer has given up and bought an airframe that does what it says on the label.

[HueyDog]

PNNews, hello, when you say, "That a so called JAR 27 airframe comes into the arena weighing so over the JAR 27 specs that we here are asking..." has very little to do with the point of my post. I was questioning a statement about noise issues that I and others have not found to be the case.

When I said "I never felt that it had a weight problem before, but extra weight allowance is always welcome", it is my personal opinion. You may have a different opinion about whether it has a weight problem or whether the additional 500 pounds is a welcome, that is certainly your prerogative and you are welcome to it. I find the extra 500 pounds a positive step whether Bell had that in mind when they first designed the aircraft or not.

[tecpilot]

The 429 is to heavy with an useful operation weight for an a/c certified under part 27, shame on the Bell development branch. Poor development control. The payload ratio between Crew weight, special equipment and fuel is to bad. On the other side the ship in actual state isn't ready to fulfill the part 29 requirements. A great problem. If the FAA/EASA will not follow the "petition" the 429 don't have a good outlook. Very few operators are ready to invest in a helicopter right from the start limited by the 3175kg and without much perspective to further improvements and additional equipment in the coming years. In the last year some HEMS operators skipped the 429 out of such reasons and opted for other products. Now Bell is becoming really nervous.

They have made a great helicopter, but trapped in the certification.

[Shawn Coyle]

tecpilot:
What part of Part 29 requirements does the 429 not meet? It's got Category A performance, all of which comes from Part 29, and which drives the redundancy aspects of a lot of systems.
Is there something else that's important in part 29 that was missed?

Remember Part 27 used to be limited to 6,000 pounds, and is now up to 7,000 pounds. The weight aspect is an arbitrary limit - the important one in my mind is the number of seats - this drives the difference between 'normal' and 'transport' in terms of safety for the flying public.

And if you want to see the comparison in the FW world - 'normal' category there goes to 12,500 pounds, except for commuter class airplanes that can be up to 19,000 pounds.
And if the difference between Part 27 and Part 29 is so important for the FAA, why do they not require type ratings for Part 29 helicopters below 12,500 pounds?

[chopper2004]

Well just decided to check the web and lo and behold, the 429 2nd parapublic customer in Europe (first being Alfa Helicopter CZ) to choose this for an order of 15 x airframes with options for another 5.

[JohnDixson]

Shawn, not my area of expertise, but I looked up the FAA site and it said the 429 is a Pt 27 machine.

Thanks,
John Dixson

[tottigol]

I wonder if the Category A performance of the 429 is attainable at 7500lbs.
The MGW increase is a signal from Bell that normal operations of some types (EMS and offshore typical) shall take place at above 7000lbs to start, just to achieve a reasonable payload.

[snotcicles]

I got to test fly one last spring. At 1000' ASL we could hover OGE at a near gross weight with OEI. The other hamster was in the 2.5 minute limit range but it could do it. When we rolled an engine off while at about 50 kts we could still climb at 1400'/minute. I thought it performed pretty well regardless of the paper.

[tecpilot]

Shawn, if there is no problem to certify the 429 in part 29 i don't understand why Bell certified the ship in part 27? Certified in part 29 and the ship is open for all future developments and weights.

As you know there are some requirements in Part 29 different from part 27. In part 29 you have to demonstrate a bird proof windshield as one small example different to 27.

[Encyclo]

Tecpilot you're right,

Bird proofness :8 (not just windshield) is one of the hurdles on Part 29. Some improvements are easy to acheive through minor redesigns, others are show stoppers. Exemptions are good :ok: