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colmac747
18th Sep 2005, 19:35
Scotland has been named the most violent country in the developed world by a United Nations report. :eek: :eek:

Apparently so (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4257966.stm)


Anymore of reading that nonsense, and i'll kick their feckin heads in:mad:

stagger
18th Sep 2005, 19:49
"The study found that, excluding murder, Scots were almost three times as likely to be assaulted as Americans."

Errr....surely murder is a pretty significant form of violence?

tony draper
18th Sep 2005, 20:10
Problem solved, once the UN is on the case yer got no worries mate, just ask the folks in Ruanda and half a dozen other points.
:cool:

Send Clowns
18th Sep 2005, 20:41
What a crap study. That is a ridiculously unprofessional way to carry out statistical research in countries with different cultures. This is an incredibly difficult study to design; I am not claiming I could do so, but that I know enough statistics to recognise gaping holes in methods when I see them.

Pilgrim101
18th Sep 2005, 20:52
Was Kofi's son involved in the study ?

Ian Corrigible
18th Sep 2005, 22:32
Was the survey taken the weekend of a Celtic-Rangers derby match...?

I/C

reynoldsno1
18th Sep 2005, 22:37
This does make the assumption that Scotland is actually part of the developed world.... what do you reckon, Hadrian...?

Onan the Clumsy
19th Sep 2005, 00:18
Was the survey taken the weekend of a Celtic-Rangers derby match...? ...or Glasgow week in Blackpool ?

As I See It
19th Sep 2005, 00:26
Ahh Glasgow fair, tis remembered with fondness (parents had a hotel on the prom). Spent many an hour watching the Jocks and Geordies discuss their differences toe to toe:E

Foss
19th Sep 2005, 00:27
Lads, you're missing the point entirely. The same survey...

'The country with the lowest level of crime in the developed world is Northern Ireland . Just 15% of people living in the province have been victims of crime, while levels of robbery and sexual assault are the lowest of 21 developed countries.'

Granted, the 15% were very busy.

Link http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-1785801,00.html

So, if you want a wee break from the maraunding drunk knife weilding gangs in Scotland just nip on the ferry and come on over.
That goes for the rest of the world. ;)

Fos - a safe and leaving my front door open at night in safety Fos


:D

acbus1
19th Sep 2005, 06:49
Presumably, having identified the problem country, the UN are now going to move in, kick butt and solve the problem.



Rebuild Hadrian's wall, I say........but make it a lot higher this time.

Oh! And stop the northerly cash flow.

And the southerly flow of television presenters with excruciating accents. :*

2R
19th Sep 2005, 13:32
Who takes a knife to a gunfight ?:E :E

tony draper
19th Sep 2005, 13:57
Crime is rife because there is no punishment, we should force criminals to watch the Liberal Democrate Party Conference, thatud larn em.
:E

Idunno
19th Sep 2005, 14:02
Foss, any connection between the low crime rate in NI and the punishment beatings/shootings meted out to offenders?
Whaddya think?

tony draper
19th Sep 2005, 14:10
Indeed, a nine mill through the back of the knee probably motivates druggies to get out of the business more than 20 hours community service does.
:E

Ozzy
19th Sep 2005, 14:15
And what feckin purpose does such studies by the UN serve? Why does the UN care? What a waste of fecking space and money. Righto, they should move the UN to feckin Aberdeen.:E:E

Ozzy

Foss
19th Sep 2005, 17:27
Idunno, Drapes

There is a certain advantage to having many keen and armed groups all so interested in the safety and welfare of their own community. It warms my heart.

Indeed, maybe magistrates in Glasgow could visit on a fact finding mission. A recent survey has also shown that having your hands nailed to a fence can really help you quit smoking cannabis.

Fos

silversurfer
19th Sep 2005, 17:38
Well that must make us in South Africa the most violent country in all developing nations. Murder, Rape, Theft, Hi-jackings - you name it, South Africa excells in it!!!:ouch:

tug3
19th Sep 2005, 18:26
Yo ACBUS1,

Read on, an apology (and cheque for the balance) would I'm sure be most welcome! This published 12 Sep 2005. Widely reported in Scotland, but funnily enough not so in England! Wonder why?

"SNP ANGER OVER SECRET PAPERS

Scottish Nationalists have demanded an apology from the UK Government after uncovering secret Whitehall papers detailing how North Sea oil would enable an independent Scotland to prosper.

Expert economic advice prepared for Tory ministers in 1974 and provided to the then Labour Government the following year said an independent Scotland, "transformed" by oil revenues, could become one of Europe's leading powers.

The key paper, The Economics of Nationalism Revisited, by Dr Gavin McCrone, said the significance of North Sea oil finds remained "in large measure disguised from the Scottish public" as the Government's stated estimate for annual oil revenues by 1980 was just £100 million.

In fact, even the SNP's claim that this figure should be £800 million by 1980 was "far too low", despite being widely regarded as "pretty wild" among the public, Dr McCrone said in his paper, written just before the General Election of February 1974.

He added that the economy of an independent Scotland, properly managed, would "tend to be in chronic surplus to a quite embarrassing degree" and that its currency would become the strongest or possibly second strongest in Europe.

The economist - now Professor McCrone - said oil revenues would also bring "tremendously increased political power" within the European Economic Community, which would later become the European Union.

"As the major producer of oil in Western Europe, however, Scotland would be in a key position and other countries would be extremely foolish if they did not seek to do all they could to accommodate Scottish interests," he added.

Today SNP shadow justice minister Kenny MacAskill accused Labour and Tory ministers of "conspiring to deny" Scots their "rightful" wealth.

Mr MacAskill said that in the 30 years since the report, Scotland had suffered low economic growth and manufacturing decline while at the same time oil wealth had "transformed" Canadian provinces and Arabian sheikdoms.

"Some have chosen when they've discovered oil to make the desert bloom and the tragedy was that in 30 years in some areas of Scotland, the British Government has created an industrial desert. I would first of all like to have an apology from the British Government for lying to us."

© Copyright Press Association Ltd 2005, All Rights Reserved."

Rgds
T3

tug3
20th Sep 2005, 10:29
A case of 'too little, too late' perhaps?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4259670.stm

Rgds
T3

tony draper
20th Sep 2005, 10:58
We had to bail the Jocks out after their disasterous Darien enterprise, the oil thing is just payback.
:E

Howard Hughes
20th Sep 2005, 11:19
What about the Northern Territory?

Where the murder rate is 6 times the national average for the rest of Australia!!:ouch:

:ok:

Paterbrat
20th Sep 2005, 11:58
I have taken the title of the thread violent countries apply it to a recent date and equated it with numbers. Ruanda then springs to mind, ex Hungary, Cambodia, Nazi Germany, one then drifts to recent violent places like Afganistan and Iraq. The question then which forms is why?

Inherently violence is present in all of us and exhibited daily, one only has to see a riot or a group of football supporters in full cry to realise that, however there are places and indeed races where it seems that if a long history of violent behaviour has remained un-ameliorated by any form of civilizing influence it seems to persist far closer to the surface.

This is of course extremely thin ice to be skating over so perhaps I will quit my skates and browse some other thread. :uhoh:

tug3
20th Sep 2005, 13:15
Drapes - A little knowledge is a dangerous thing! Allow me to enlighten:

"In 1695 King William, partly to divert attention from the horrific events at Glencoe, gave his support to a scheme to establish an overseas trading company in Scotland. This scheme fulfilled the Scottish desire for a colony, and for the expansion of trade; but it also received support from London merchants anxious to break the monopoly of the East India Company. The money was readily subscribed, but the merchants of the East India Company, who had great influence in the English Parliament, took alarm. There were threats of impeachment; most of the English directors withdrew and Scotland put up £ 400,000 herself, about half of the whole national capital available.

The king, now saying that he had been ill-served in Scotland, offered every impediment he could, prevented the borrowing of money in Hamburg, the buying of ships in Holland, and the giving of aid by the English colonists. His hostility was due in part to his knowledge that Darien was claimed by Spain, about whose possessions he was trying to arrange the Partition Treaties.

None the less three Scottish ships and two tenders sailed from Leith in July 1698 and, in October, founded the township of New Edinburgh; but fever, dissension, and English opposition ruined the venture, and the colony was abandoned after great loss of life. Fort St. Andrew capitulated in March 1700 and Scotland lost 2,000 men and upwards of £ 200,000.

The anger of the nation was intense, and it was not allayed by a letter sent by William to the ninth session of the Scots Parliament, which explained that to have accepted the Company's right to Darien would have disturbed the peace to Christendom; he promised to support every measure which would promote Scottish trade, and especially repair the losses of the Company. The Darien Disaster did much to help towards the Union of Parliaments in 1707".

Credit where it's due! Sounds to me like a bit of skullduggery then, resulting in having to "bail the Jocks out", was a bit of a bargain in the long run! Oil = just another case of history repeating!

Rgds
T3

(Edited for sepling)

Foss
20th Sep 2005, 14:16
Knew King Billy had to come into this somewhere. From TG3 is surprising.

Christ on a bike.
:zzz:

ORAC
20th Sep 2005, 14:23
As I recall at the time, the Shetlanders pointed out most of it was their oil, and if Jockistan voted for independence, what was good for the goose was good for the gander, and they´d either stick with England or go back to Norway. Whatever happened they weren´t sticking with that lot down in Edinburgh....... :E

airship
20th Sep 2005, 14:25
There are no violent countries, just violent individuals. Don't vote for 'em!

Flypuppy
20th Sep 2005, 14:40
ORAC,

I fear your memory is playing up somewhat.

A small political party call Movement for Independent Shetland, which ceased to exist in the late 1980s, had never stood for complete independence – just for a bigger autonomy within the UK. True, at times the islanders still called Shetland “a country” and said “I am going to Scotland next week”, but there were no independence undertones in those statements, coined purely by the islands’ geographic remoteness. At the same time, there is definitely such a thing as a “Shetland identity” which – like any other cultural character – is fairly hard to define. Had Scotland gained independance based on oil wealth, Shetland would have been even better off than it is now, joing Norway or England would not have given the Shetlanders any benefit.

Apart from place names, ruins and Up Helly Aa Fire Festival, there was not much Scandinavian culture left in Shetland, which stopped being a province of Norway in 1472, when it was given to Scotland as the dowry for a Norwegian princess. In the run-up to the last World Football Cup England – Denmark game, a Scottish tabloid sent a pack of hacks to Lerwick in the hope of finding thousands of Denmark supporters. Not a single one could be identified: everybody in Shetland supported England. They should have tried Glasgow instead…

tug3
20th Sep 2005, 15:30
Foss, dear boy, dunno what you mean...

Fly - Had a similar experience in the Orkney Isles, where locals referring to the "Mainland" meant the Orkney Mainland. "Scotland" was used to avoid confusion in referring to two mainlands. Guess those in the Shetland Isles use the same logic.

Orac - taking Shetland aside, (agree with Fly's points above so no point repeating), I assume you've never driven out of Aberdeen at night, looked out to sea from the headlands as you head south and wondered what all those orange lights belonged to on the horizon? Plenty of 'black stuff' in that bit of the N.Sea for a country with only 5 million population!

(Okay, left that one wide open, so a pint goes to the first smart ar$e response!!!)

Rgds
T3

diginagain
20th Sep 2005, 15:46
Ooooh, Cromarty.

Nice.

Been once or twice. Great bar in InverG, the Cally. No violence there, never.

BTW, must be an old photo, aren't all the semis at sea, finding the last of the UK's oil?

tug3
20th Sep 2005, 15:47
Didn't know you could go 'cockling' in Morecambe Bay using these things - just wait 'til the Chinese find out!!!

Rgds
T3

(Edit - what hap'nd to the pic? Anyone else w/same prob?)