View Full Version : White flags at Cathay!

20th Oct 2001, 11:08
From this morning's South China Morning Post.

Cathay Pacific pilots will suspend their industrial action campaign from noon tomorrow and have formally dropped a demand that sacked pilots be reinstated as part of any deal.
The measures fulfil every requirement Cathay listed in an October 12 letter as "steps in the right direction" that would show the sincerity needed for negotiations.

The ceasefire was set out in a letter hand-delivered by Aircrew Officers' Association president Nigel Demery to Cathay director of flight operations Ken Barley on Thursday.

Cathay welcomed the union announcement and has proposed a meeting with it early next week.

The pilots' union has warned it will review the decision to suspend industrial action - which started in July - if Cathay did not respond clearly and positively to its decision.

Union members were informed yesterday in a newsletter obtained by the Post. In it, Mr Demery said the union had "updated" its view on the best course of action after the September 11 terror attacks.

"After two days' extensive discussion in your General Committee, we have decided that we will, as a membership, demonstrate the sincerity and good faith management is seeking. Someone has to be prepared to take the first step towards reconciliation," he said.

The move came after Cathay dismissed the union's previous offer of an unconditional return to negotiations as insincere, given the insistence on the reinstatement of the sacked pilots.

In the letter to Mr Barley, Mr Demery said there were no pre-conditions for negotiations.

Union general secretary John Findlay said the initiative showed great strength of character: "I don't think there's any sign of admitting defeat here."

Cathay's director of corporate development, Tony Tyler, warned the union would need to have realistic expectations in the current environment.

So what will happen now?

20th Oct 2001, 13:07
What did the union achieve? Nothing.

fast cruiser
20th Oct 2001, 13:15
What about the recruitment ban
Does this mean that it has been suspended pending further talks!!!

20th Oct 2001, 22:22
Union diehards hang on to the end....and achieve nothing...wonder when these malcontents will learn?

20th Oct 2001, 22:46
So is the union rolling over and forgetting about the 52 brothers that got sacked??

United we stand? :confused:

The Reaper
21st Oct 2001, 02:27
"Never, in the field of Industrial Relations, were so many shafted, by so few, with so little!"

With acknowledgements to Sir Winston Churchill.

Life is sweet indeed!

[ 20 October 2001: Message edited by: The Reaper ]

21st Oct 2001, 03:56

I hav had to read some of your responses over the last few months and have kept my powder dry, but your latest has made me realise what everyone else has said for some time....What a 'kin great tool you are.

You probably think you are a latter day wit but sadly, a lack of cosmopolitan appreciation for the world away from your own squalid pit marks you out. Cathay Unions (and others ) have striven for a mutual respect with management and sadly for true industrial democracy have found their cause hindered by events beyond ther control. To have these efforts belittled by peurile comments uch as yours beggars belief. I initially thought that you were being ironic but then I saw your address and swiftlty realised that in common with my 3 year old, you are fitted for, but not with, irony.

21st Oct 2001, 06:03
Actually STAN, the CX guys have been destined to crash and burn from the beginning and never had a chance. The airline business was on a downturn long before 9-11, and I wonder how the 49+ feel now that the AOA has sold them down the river. If the "action" had not started, they would most likely still have jobs....and all for nothing.
If "action" is desired, you have to have a plan, and muscle to back it up, and these guys simply did not.

Nasty Nasty
22nd Oct 2001, 05:54
Well the Boys in Yellow have hoisted the White Flag and the Wives are now in black....

What will they wear next? Green for envy?

Colourful lot the CX Drivers! :D :D

22nd Oct 2001, 12:30
Better white flag than no flag boys!!!
You do not want to be like some of our friends in Ansett.
Count your blessings.

Classic Dick
22nd Oct 2001, 13:05
Very true. I flew with many of the Ansett lads in SQ that went through the 1989 agony and I can tell you it wasn't fun - for them.

There is a place for unions in the industry but the members must ensure the executive remains focused on the issues and not become emotional and divert from the original grievance.

I believe things went off the rails a little when the 52 pilots were sacked. There seemed,in my opinion,that more effort was being channeled into getting these chaps re-instated than the original agenda. A ploy well executed by Cathay management and as with the Australian dispute,the pilots played right into the hands of Tyler and his cohorts.

Liam Gallagher
22nd Oct 2001, 14:20
Classic Dick,

Care to flesh out the claims made in the last paragraph of your post. Just what actions did the AOA committee take post-9th July that departed from the original agenda? How were the committee distracted?

22nd Oct 2001, 14:50

22nd Oct 2001, 16:42
Sorry to disapoint you all but the industrial action is suspended. It will resume if talks don't achieve something quickly.
This action was taken to call the companies bluff and it worked; they are trying to delay the talks because they are not ready.
The 49ers are not forgotten, they are still being financially aided by the union and their reinstatement is going to happen if the company wants a solution.
You wallies who "don't believe" in unions ought to try working in a place without labour laws, you'd be laughing on the other side of your face. It's a dim witted attitude.
P.S. Talking of dim wits, 411A...1350+ posts?! Get a life.

22nd Oct 2001, 17:28
Lerxt- Surely only 'wallies' and 'dim-wits' would work in a place without Labour Laws?

Chimbu chuckles
22nd Oct 2001, 18:45
Like Africa Guvnor?


Stagnation Point
22nd Oct 2001, 18:59
Your confusing Guvnor with "The Guvnor", I don't think Broadmoor is in Africa isn't it a prison.

Good luck Cathay Pilots. If the 49ers were saacked illegally then they'll get their day in court.

Pete Otube
22nd Oct 2001, 23:53
Stag Point - Yes, they'll get their day in court - probably just prior to sentencing!

[ 22 October 2001: Message edited by: Pete Otube ]

Classic Dick
23rd Oct 2001, 13:08
I did not say the HKAOA was distracted nor that they departed from the original agenda Mr Gallagher.

My belief was, and still is, that Cathay management sacked these 52 pilots knowing full well that the AOA would react and divert attention from the real issues of the dispute. The recruitment ban by IFALPA was a direct result of these sackings and had nothing whatsoever to do with the original grievance. The harsh rhetoric of "no deals" until these pilots were re-instated, again had nothing to do with the original agenda.

The "yellow ribbon" parade, whilst it may have been construed as symbolicaly appropriate, did nothing to convince the media or shareholders that this was relevant to rostering issues and work patterns.

Liam Gallagher
23rd Oct 2001, 14:24
Classic Dick,

We differ on our beliefs as to the aim of sacking the 49/52. The primary aim was clearly to itimidate the remaining 1300 AOA members. I believe it had the secondary aim of trying to make the AOA "over-react" and call a strike. You will recall that in early July the company had aircraft on charter and Cabin Staff on unpaid leave. The company was desparate to avoid a prolonged and expensive low level fight; which is what it got as the AOA stuck to program.

You refer to "harsh rhetoric of no deals" until the 49ers were reinstated. This was never the case. The only pre-condition to talks was the provision of data from the company and this pre-condition was lifted in late July. The company said no talks until the limited industrial action ceases.

However, you will appreciate that should the AOA fail to get a satifactory resolution for each/most of the 49ers, then the AOA as a union is finished. Which leads back to the primary aim of the sackings; intimidation.

This was why folks wore the yellow ribbons. It wasn't for the benefit of you or the press; it was a visible (in your face) symbol around CX City that the wearer objected to this style of management and it reassured the other AOA members that unity was holding and intimidation was failing. To a large degree the campaign was successful for the company eventually had to ban them earlier this month. However, I look forward to the missive banning yellow pens/ID holders and the like!