Renter's insurance for heli instruction here in the US ?

[shall555]

Hello all,

I've been pursuing an add-on helicopter rating and am getting pretty close to solo.

I'm looking for renter's insurance for the time I begin to fly these things alone.

The problem is, there's apparently no 'non-owner' insurance available for rotary-wing operations. Ooops.

Sorry, but I'm not able to self-insure for $ 150,000 + liability if something happens and I bend one of these things.

Has anyone here (that's not getting paid to fly these things) researched this stuff ?
Has everyone here thought about what their liability is if they're renting ?

Respectfully,

Stephen H

[RW-1]

You might want to check out what AOPA has available, or through the association. I know they have a program with an insurer, and did not know whether it covers rotorcraft or not, but knowing AOPA sponsored insurance I would think it does.

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Marc

[hoverfan]

shall555,
I added a helicopter rating to my US private certificate in Sept. 00. I bought a non-owners policy for rotorcraft from Avemco before solo. I had fixed-wing coverage with them for years, and added the rotor. Because the cost is more (of course, it's a heli) it covers the fixed wing, too. It ain't cheap. For $900/yr. I get $10,000 coverage. That covers the a/c owner's deductible. I talked to owner's insurance agent, and he said the insurance company wouldn't come after me for any damage beyond $10,000, as long as I didn't cause it by really stupid/incompetent flying (too low, running out of fuel, flying in poor WX, etc.) I was told that Avemco has stopped offering these non-owner policies, though, but I don't know if that's the case. I haven't talked to them. My policy is good until expiration. Don't know if they'll let me renew. I understand that there simply isn't enough profit in n-o policies, again, that's not directly from insurance company. If the policies become unavailable, I'll have to figure a way to be a part-owner, because I've spent too damn much on this rating, and I want to use it. Rotor flying is too much fun to give up. Good luck.
hoverfan

[muffin]

Please excuse my ignorance, but I have seen this topic discussed before on rec.aviation.rotorcraft and have never actually asked. Do I take it that when you hire a helicopter in the US, that there is normally an insurance excess(sorry, deductible in US terminology) that you as the hirer are liable for in the event of an accident? (I am in the UK by the way). Certainly my understanding in this country is that all helicopters available for hire have fully comprehensive insurance with no excess. I know this is not mandatory but I presume it is the norm? Certainly I have never heard of renters insurance here for either fixed or rotary wing hire, and assumed that was because it was not needed.

[shall555]

Avemco is no longer writing non-owner rotorcraft policies (as of this writing).

It depends on the FBO from whom you're renting, but a $ 10,000 deductible-only insurance policy may not even come close to what you'd need if you tear up a rental helicopter.

The *insurance company* that insures the FBO may come after you for the *entire value of the helicopter*. In addition, the FBO may sue you for the loss of rental income until the machine is replaced.

Let's say you were to solo an R22BII with less than 100 hours on it, get hit by a stray gust or something from which you were too slow to react and the tail boom swung around and hit something , causing a survivable accident, but one that totalled the machine. A new R22 Beta II costs upward of $ 150,000.

If you have verbal assurance from the flight school that they'll only demand the deductible, that's terrific. Of course, such an assurance is not binding. And their insurance company *will* come after you in court for the balance.

This is pretty serious -- not at all like being liable for a $ 20,000 Cessna 150 at a fixed-wing flight school.

I think I may have to just go for a solo endorsement in my logbook and go back to fixed-wing flying until this stuff is resolved. :-( There's a fixed-wing club next door to the place I've taken my heli instruction. Their policy includes a 'waiver of subrogation' which means that the pilot is protected by the insurance policy. Price ? $ 94 / year

If anyone has a solution, I'd love to hear it.

[hoverfan]

Muffin - I've been renting aircraft in the US for 20 years, and in all cases the owner's insurance has covered only the owner for their liability as the owner. The renter is not covered by the owner's policy, therefore, it's prudent to buy renter's insurance. I frequent a UK-based R22 site, and from the rates I've seen mentioned, perhaps the insurance is just added with all the other expenses into the hourly rate. I figure that my $900 per year policy adds about $20 per hour to my effective rental rate.

shall555 - your points are well taken. I'm bothered to know that Avemco isn't offering the renter's insurance any longer. In my particular case, I carry only $10,000, because that is the deductible on the owner's policy, and I would be responsible for that. I talked to the owner's insurance company representative, and he said they would not come after me for losses exceeding the $10,000, unless I ruined the ship due to stupidity, negligence, or something illegal. For instance, running out of fuel or showing off is stupid. Getting caught by a gust, in your example, is treated as a true accident. He made the point that if the insurance company always came back on the renter to recoup their losses, it would kill the rental business in general. Few would be able to buy enough insurance to cover the full hull value of the aircraft they rent. Their is a local school with a new 172, and to replace it would cost even a bit more that your R22 example. My instructor and I are considering starting a flying club with an R22 mfor this reason. Since owners insurance is available, at least the ship would be insurable this way. A non-owner pilot would have to become an owner in some capacity just to be able to continue to fly helis. It seems that I will be at that bridge when my current policy expires next Sept..............Chris