logbook entries

[windy1]

LASORS says a successful flight test can go as P1s. But for SEP, who is logged as captain?

Example 1:Pilot Jones does IMC renewal with Examiner Smith. Goes OK, so "Captain " = Smith, "Holders Operating Capacity" = P1s and flight time goes in the "In Command" column.

Example 2: Goes badly, so Captain=Smith, Holders Op Cap =Put and flight time goes in "Dual" column

Correct?

Presumably the Examiner who was in command logs the same flight in his own personal log book as "self" and "P1". So that single flight generated 2 lots of P1 time even though it was a single crew aircraft. - Just an observation.

Pilot Jones cannot ever get a log book entry reading "self" and P1s ?

[idle stop]

Quite correct, for JAA rules.

For info, in the UK military, two qualified instructors flying together or two qualified test pilots flying together each log P1 for the duration of the flight; one of the two will log as P i/c in addition.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I can't speak regarding the instructor issues, but JSP318 (the military flying rules) restricted that to "two qualified test pilots flying together for the purposes of assessing an aircraft". As a practice it's tended to be carried over to the civil world and accepted by the CAA as such, although I'm not aware of any civil regulations either supporting or disputing that approach.

G

[hugh flung_dung]

Ah, the p1/s debate. This pops-up regularly on the web and in club bars around the country.
The rules are clear ...
... but dumb and widely ignored.

If anyone from CAA, JAR or EASA land is reading this, please can you consider a change to the use of P1/S.

Currently for civil SPA the only time that P1/S can be used is after a successful test. IMHO common sense suggests that it ought to be used for successful check flights, type checkouts where no retraining is required or any other situation where bloggs was satisfactorily acting as P1 while being supervised.

HFD

[Whopity]

The legal requirements for Log Book entries are given in The ANO 2005 Article 35:

-------------------------------------------
Personal flying log book
35. —(1) Every member of the flight crew of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom and every person who engages in flying for the purpose of qualifying for the grant or renewal of a licence under this Order shall keep a personal flying log book in which the following particulars shall be recorded—

(a) the name and address of the holder of the log book;

(b) particulars of the holder's licence (if any) to act as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft; and

(c) the name and address of his employer (if any).

(2) Particulars of each flight during which the holder of the log book acted either as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft or for the purpose of qualifying for the grant or renewal of a licence under this Order, as the case may be, shall be recorded in the log book at the end of each flight or as soon thereafter as is reasonably practicable, including—

(a) the date, the places at which the holder embarked on and disembarked from the aircraft and the time spent during the course of a flight when he was acting in either capacity;

(b) the type and registration marks of the aircraft;

(c) the capacity in which the holder acted in flight;

(d) particulars of any special conditions under which the flight was conducted, including night flying and instrument flying; and

(e) particulars of any test or examination undertaken whilst in flight.

(3) For the purposes of this article, a helicopter shall be deemed to be in flight from the moment the helicopter first moves under its own power for the purpose of taking off until the rotors are next stopped.

(4) Particulars of any test or examination undertaken whilst in a flight simulator shall be recorded in the log book, including—

(a) the date of the test or examination;

(b) the type of simulator;

(c) the capacity in which the holder acted; and

(d) the nature of the test or examination.

-------------------------------------------
As you will see the is no mention of "Captain" in these requirements!

JAR-FCL 1.080 c), (iv) states that the holder of an examiners authorisation may log as pilot in command all flight time during which he occupies a pilot's seat and acts as an examiner in aeroplanes.

As it is a personal log book anything else you add is up to the holder.

HFD,

I agree and have always done it that way. CAP53 uesd to say for any test or check.

The Authorities are really not interested unless you blatantly claim hours that are not PIC.

They expect pilots to comply with the ANO and use some home grown common sense.