Flying Mid size corporate jet Without Type Rating?

[foxtrot181]

Hi Everyone, I have a few questions that I'm not sure about the correct answers yet!
Can someone fly as a first officer with an FAA Commercial, a mid sized corporate jet without a type rating in the US?? (Logging SIC Hours) Lets say the a/c is around 12 tonnes or so.
And if anyone knows if the same thing can be done in Europe providing you have a JAA Commercial.
What happens if the registration of an aircraft that is flying in Europe is from the US? In that case what regulations do apply? the JAR or FAR's??


Thanks!

[westhawk]

foxtrot181:

Yes you may act as SIC for part 91 ops (not for hire) in a two-crew aircraft within US airspace provided you meet the requirements of part 61.55. This link provides the details. Note that the study and familiarization does not need to be logged training from an authorized instructor. Nor does the flight training. But the CRM training must be documented. (received from an authorized instructor) Many people take a pretty liberal view of these rules, so beware!
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http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=b02ae42e13bd37ebbbc1143ca41eea9c&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.1.2.1.1.33&idno=14

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If operations are to conducted outside the US, then it gets a little more complex. A new requirement to be "type rated" in the aircraft in order to fly outside the US is in the works. This is intended to bring US regs into line with ICAO standards. The date for implementation may be delayed for some time, however it is now in the federal register, so consider it a requirement that will have to be met sooner or later! The main difference is that the requirements of 61.55 must be documented with log entries (I assume by an authorized instructor rated in the aircraft.) and an endorsement made by the person who gave the training or a named company official if applicable. then an application (8710-1) for a SIC only type rating submitted to FAA. No testing or checkride is required! click on the link to the amendment to 61.55 the above linked document to see those those requirements.

I assume that the "company official" would apply only to companies that are required to have those named officials as per regulations such as part 135 (on demand or air taxi) or 91 subpart K (fractional) operators. To be assigned as a required fight crewmember for these operators, you must complete their approved training and qualification program. That program would qualify you for the SIC only type since it requires much more than 61.55. Just do the paperwork.

So, to summarize:

Part 91 domestic only requires meeting 61.55. Make sure to log the flying time and maneuvers along with the name of the PIC

Part 91 outside US does (or will) require that the training stipulated in 61.55 be documented by the person conducting the training and an endorsement given. Then a "SIC privileges only" type rating may be received.

Part 135 domestic requires completion of approved training program. International ops will require "SIC privileges only" type.

I should also mention that these are only the minimum requirements to comply with the regulations. Insurance companies and aviation safety consulting firms such as Wyvern, Q-star and US/ARG are gradually forcing operators to abandon in-house training in favor of part 142 simulator and ground training and testing. "Low cost" charter, medical and frieght operators of smaller and older jets are the most likely to skip the sim for new co-pilots. But the times they are a changin'.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,

Westhawk

[NZLeardriver]

It is quite common in the US for the SIC under part 91, 135 and even 121 to not have a type rating. They have an SIC rating. Part 135 and 121 still need a checkride, but it can be a designated examiner, usually a company representative. Part 91 you will just need a private with multi engine privileges.
I have seen it somewhere, possibly on the temporary certificate you get issued, that an FAA SIC rating is not valid anywhere else, and to fly international you need a full type rating.
In reality, it is no problem to fly around the Americas, (Nth and Sth) the Caribbean etc with no type rating. Trips to Europe havn't been a problem, but I don't think that you would be able to do an extended trip or be based there on your FAA SIC rating. I think flying from US to Europe with a couple of fuel stops in Europe is fine, but not a few trips locally while you are there.

[foxtrot181]

Westhawk and NZLeardriver Thanks a lot for the info!
Yes it really helped to see the regs about these operations!!

[mjbow2]

There is a new rule that will allow a CFI to sign you off for an 'SIC Type Rating' to meet the complants of some EU authorities. It sounds like a 'rubber stamping' for those that have already got time in the right seat.

My understanding is that airlines (UA AA etc) will be able to rubber stamp all their international FO's to satisfy this new requirement out of Europe.

[westhawk]

Latest update from Aviation International News (AIN Alerts 09/08/05) on the subject of "SIC type ratings" requirements for US SICs operating internationally is that the mandatory compliance date will be extended to june, 2006 in order to give time for the processing of the necessary documents.

Looks as though we'll have to wait a while longer before we may enjoy the benefits of this particular "safety enhancement".

Best,

Westhawk