Naturalized Brazilian

[orisworldtimer]

After a long wait it seems that I will finally receive my permanent residence in Brazil. According to the law I can apply for naturalization after one year (due to having a Brazilian child).
Does anyone have any experience with the naturalization process? Thanks for sharing your thoughts. OWT

[Alexander H.]

Sorry, don't have an answer for you but very interesting in the same subject. Do you know anything about marriage in this matter?

[malagajohn]

I seem to remember that a Mr R Biggs became a naturalized Brazilian citizen fairly quickly after fathering a child and escaping from London's finest:O :O

[orisworldtimer]

Marriage of course helps to obtain permanent resident status. You must have a permanent address in Brazil, the Federal Police will make a visit to make sure that you are there and it's for real (we waited about a year for them to show up...)
Once you are a permanent resident you can apply for naturalization after:
- four years, or
- two years if you are married to a Brazilian, or
- one year if you have a Brazilian child

Now I would like to know how long the naturalization process takes. The problem for us pilots is of course that you need income to become naturalized and naturalization to earn an income :( But as we like to say: sempre tem um jeitinho! - just need to find it...any tips (applicable today and not in the 60's, malagajohn :ok: ) are appreciated. OWT

[Alexander H.]

Thanks! :)

They accept we are away doing studies in another country this 1-2 years?

[alemaobaiano]

They accept we are away doing studies in another country this 1-2 years?

Generally no, they don't. Once you are Brazilian you can study where you want.

If you are applying for residence or naturalization they expect you to live and work in Brazil. Bear in mind that Brazil has quite a lot of unemployed pilots already, so finding a job will be difficult. No income or substantial savings equals no residence, and therefore no naturalization.

They will check with your employer, and almost certainly check your residence and marital status. If things are not as per your application, out you go.

Unfortunately, não sempre tem um jeitinho. The Federal Police are one of the few institutions here that are largely free from corruption and this area is one of the most closely watched, largely as a result of the huge number of Chinese and Korean applicants, the vast majority of whom are trying "um jeitinho".

Your best hope would be trying to get an employer to sponsor you, which makes things quicker and easier, however you will have to convince them that you are worth it.

The actual process of naturalization normally takes between 18 months and 3 years, on top of the waiting periods detailed by OWT, and on top of the delay in getting your residence which can be up to a year (although normally less). A friend of mine has just completed the whole process in a few months under 7 years. If you have a Brazilian child you might be able to complete the whole process in 3 years, but you would be VERY lucky to do that.

Hope that helps a little

Tony

[orisworldtimer]

Obrigado alemãobaiano. The previous best estimate I've had was 6-10 years, so 3-7 is a lot better all ready. The jeitinho I was referring to concerns the chicken-and-egg problem of needing a job to naturalize while being barred from excercising my profession... Perhaps being employed by a Brazilian company but posted abroad in the meantime is a solution. I understand that the permanência definitiva allows for an absence of up to 2 years without loosing its validity. Tchau - OWT

[alemaobaiano]

Perhaps being employed by a Brazilian company but posted abroad in the meantime is a solution. I understand that the permanência definitiva allows for an absence of up to 2 years without loosing its validity

Sort of yes and no :confused:

My take on this is...

Employed by a local company and being posted abroard doesn't affect your residence status as long as you pay tax and have a residential address in Brazil. Remember that your CPF would expire after 2 years anyway if you don't pay tax to Brasilia.

The 2 year limit applies to any absence from Brazil, except as above.

So, you're right, best chance is being employed here and posted abroard. That still leaves the problem of getting a job in the first place and then getting posted out of Brazil. Not easy, but worth the effort.

Good luck

[Alexander H.]

Let me get this straight...

Will start my education in USA 31 January 2006. I expect to be in USA 2 years if I work as instructor.

Let's say I marry some weeks before 31 January 2006. So then two years of marriage is already done when I finish my education in USA. After finishing the education all pilots looks for jobs ofcourse, which is also impossible for me in brasil at that time.

1.
Well I go to brasil to get my permanent residence with my wife, but is it really necessary for me to be there one whole year? Isn't it enough that she lives there this periode while I try to get some income from Europe? (I'll stay some months in the beginning ofcourse!) Perhaps possible to combine this during my last year in USA?

2.
I understand naturalization process can take up to three years. However, are you saying I can be in Europe two of three years? Possible to work in a company owned by my wifes parents/family too? :)

[alemaobaiano]

Well I go to brasil to get my permanent residence with my wife, but is it really necessary for me to be there one whole year? Isn't it enough that she lives there this periode while I try to get some income from Europe? (I'll stay some months in the beginning ofcourse!) Perhaps possible to combine this during my last year in USA?

No, you must be present during the whole process, and you must have means of support, ie a job or SIGNIFICANT savings. It is not enought that your wife stay in Brazil. Remember that one year is if everything goes well, it can be a lot longer.


I understand naturalization process can take up to three years. However, are you saying I can be in Europe two of three years? Possible to work in a company owned by my wifes parents/family too?

Naturalization can take up to (and beyond) three years, in addition to the waiting period after residence is granted. Basically, with a Brazilian wife you are looking at :

9-12 months for residence.

2 years waiting until you can apply for naturalization.

up to 3 years until naturalization is granted.

So you are looking at a MINIMUM of 3-4 years from the day you arrive here. Realistically, unless you have some overwhelming reason why the process should be accelerated, you are more likely to be waiting 6-7 years, and that is around the time that recent cases have taken.

With your RNE (residence permit) you can be out of Brazil for up to two years, if you are employed by a local company and sent overseas. However, there aren't many companies here that do that and they are generally major industries. I doubt that they would accept employment by your own family business as valid.

For naturalization there really isn't much option but to wait. The problem is finding work while you are waiting, and obviously you can't be a pilot here until naturalized.

That raises the question of why do you really want to be a pilot in Brazil? There is no shortage of well qualified pilots looking for jobs now, and Varig are cutting back, so there will be even less vacancies. Nobody is employing crew without type rating and lots of experience, which I presume you don't have.

I'm not trying to put you off, Brazil is a wonderful country, but foreign pilots are in a very difficult position.

Good luck :ok:

BTW, this info is pretty general, feel free to PM me if you need something more specific.

[inboundduck]

There is at least two Argentine pilots working for TAM airlines in BRAZIL (www.tam.com.br). Why don´t send TAM an e-mail and ask about the process ?



cheers


inboundduck

[alemaobaiano]

Are they employed by TAM Brasil or TAM Mercosul?

AFAIK TAM Mercosul can employ pilots and crew from any Mercosul country but they won't necessarily be based in Brasil. TAM Brasil follows the laws of Brasil, so their pilots must be nationals.

Of course, this being Brasil, anything is possible

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Alexander H.]

Need to be naturalized to work as a flight attendent too? Any laws against this?

[alemaobaiano]

Alexander, you only need to have a residence permit to be a flight attendant, but you will need to be 100% fluent in Portuguese.

Again it's a similar market to pilots. With VASP recently gone and VARIG probably going, there are a lot of experienced professionals chasing fewer places. This also means that salaries are low, it's an employer's market at the moment.

Try writing to some of the airlines here and see what you get back. The worst they can do is say no.

Boa sorte

[Alexander H.]

Okay thanks.

Just want to make something clear. If I'm married with a brazilian and live with her, then I already have a permanent residence. Correct? Which means I can skip the 1 year wait for permanent residence and go for the naturalization process instead?

[AeroBoero]

You will still have to wait for naturalisation. The residence permit is almost a no-brain (have a uncle doing that now).

Good Luck

[alemaobaiano]

Alexander

No, you still need to go through the residence procedure, being married doesn't give you the right of residence. It's not a difficult process, it just takes a while and involves several visits to the Policia Federal. You still need to prove that you have employment or other means of support.

Good luck