Pay & Benefits

[tbc]

I am doing some thinking about pay rates for pilots in the rotary world, in an effort to convince myself that it is worth staying with it. This includes the type of operations and the employer that pays and treats me as well as I need to be.

What I would appreciate is any facts about current pay and benefits from anyone and everyone - mainly the UK industry but I would appreciate worldwide too to give a fairer comparison and maybe give me a push into seeking fairer climes.

[212man]

I know what 'pay' means, but what's a 'benefit'? Answers on a postcard to....

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Another day in paradise

[PurplePitot]

Charter Pilot – 26-32K no benefits/no pension

Gas (Transco) pilot - 28K no benefits/no pension

Police Pilot (Macs/Pas/Bond) - 31K+ excellent benefits/4% pension contributions.

Police Pilot (Direct employ) - 36K+ few benefits/Local Government pension with 6% contribution.

North Sea Captain – 38K+ Good benefits/Good pension (8% contribution I think)

North Sea FO/SFO – low to 40K ish

The North Sea bit has probably changed a bit since I was very nearly there.



[This message has been edited by PurplePitot (edited 14 January 2001).]

[HOGE]

North Sea Captain...good benefits????
Let me think, rubber suit, cap, occasional coffee in a styroform cup. Possible respect from my peers....ho hum.

[tbc]

The idea of a free rubber suit sound interesting!!!

Many thanks for the replies - anyone else shed even more light on the subject i.e. what do people get for being line training captains, TREs, IRs etc.?

[HOGE]

It's my understanding that "extra responsibility" pay such as TRE, Line Trainer etc, does not compare favourably with the fixed wing payments. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this!

[212man]

I'd agree with the last, but I'm not going to post figures. Just to add to that, FW TREs generally do all the OPC/LPCs in a simulator so aren't exposed to some of the situations of their rotary bretheren.

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Another day in paradise

[A109]

tbc why not do what everyone else seems to do. Go fixed wing, join an airline, get stacks of dosh then come back and freelance on helicopters in your spare time and keep the salaries in the rotary wing side of the industry down at their present derisory rate.
If you have the choice it is crazy to stay in helicopters from a money point of view.
regards
A109

[tbc]

Going fixed wing is not an option. And even if it was I'm not sure I would want to, but thanks for the comments.

From what I have gleemed it seems the salary for on shore pilots appears to be anywhere between 30-36k ish with BAS paying 34k, MAS 31k and PAS 30k.

I'm sure for those that have a pension from the Queen it probably doesn't feel that bad.

[Skycop]

No matter then that we have to rely on a private income to be able to support the wife and kids?

Doesn't feel that bad? Of course not. It's a privilege to work for such caring, sharing companies.

[Thomas coupling]

TBC: can I partially hijack your thread for 2 minutes?

Skycop: How does one improve the situation? The helo world (UK)is notorious for lack of unionisation, or co-ordinated efforts to attain a fraction of that enjoyed by our FW brothers. Perhaps it is because there are too few of us. My first suggestion would be to prevent anyone with a FW rating from filling a helo vacancy. After all, why have a FW qual if you are not going to use it in anger at some stage. This means he/she will move on when it suits them, leaving the employer with the usual headache: where do they get the next one from and are they going to suffer the same again. A transient workforce doesn't engender loyalty and decent T and C, does it?


TBC: your main priority is to work for a decent employer, first. The rest will follow i.d.c.


http://www.gograph.com/Images-7298/AnimatedGif/redstar.gif

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Thermal runaway.

[Skycop]

I agree about the lack of support from unions, but then many heli pilots aren't members of one. Not sure if it's chicken or egg though. Certainly BALPA do not have a good track record for helping out. (The senior BALPA rep who recently went on to the payroll of one of the major companies did BALPA's reputation no end of harm).

I can't understand your point about trying to deny a heli job to a pilot with a fixed-wing rating. How would you enforce it? Would you sack the dual-rated pilots already in post? It would surely contravene basic human rights to deny someone a job because he was also qualified to do another. Any employer trying that one would find himself in court quicker than he could say knife! What about the guys legitimately working towards a plank ticket? Sack them for being.... what? Disloyal? If this rule were to be introduced, do you actually think pilots would admit to being dual qualified? You cannot be serious about this.

Until terms and conditions improve, helicopter pilots will remain a transient population. It's called market forces. At the moment heli pilots are not sufficiently remunerated for their qualifications and experience. If rotary employers do not wake up to this fact then soon there will be a shortage of pilots meeting the minimum experience for some jobs; especially our speciality. They can be absolutely NO complaints about pilots moving on as their qualifications allow them to do so.

[eden]

Excuse the hijacking of this thread - but I have to comment on the last 2 posts. Firstly, I have enormous sympathy with the plight of the heli pilot with regard to salary, but to suggest that any body dual qualified on FW + RW should be eliminated from flying rotary needs to apply a great deal more thought and consideration as to why RW pilots get paid such relatively lower salaries compared to FW p's.

Skycop's pragmatic and measured response has a sound sense of proportion and your words are to be commended. I would be delighted to enter into a balanced discussion, might I suggest that Thomas C start a thread and think a little before he posts, what amounts to a selfish and ill thought out hit at fellow pilots. In order to let this thread take it's true course we should move else where - go TC see you on your town topic.

[John Nussbaum]

Here is the pay scale in the U.S. as far as I can tell. It varies fairly widely but this should be ball park.
* Flight Instructor - $28k annually (time builder)
* Tour Pilot - $30k annually (time building position)I hear the unreported income from tips is good particularly from Japanese tourists in Hawii.
* Off Shore Oil field support - Starts about $38k and goes up with experience. Some benefits.
*EMS-$40k and up good benefits.
*Corprate-big ship Captain $50k and very good benefits.

There seems to be a pilot shortage at the moment. I wonder why.

[Jackstall]

Market forces do indeed apply here. I'm afraid the biggest culprits are those with Military Pensions. To get the job, they are willing to accept low salaries because they know that the pension will supplement their income... and they're happy because they are flying. The whole industry suffers as a consequence.

[helimutt]

As a newly qualified AFI (H) I still haven't managed to find the elusive first position in the UK yet. My present job is as marine engineer with oil major and £37.5K not having to pay tax,NI,etc. and that's for 6 months work a year/6 months at home. What would I rather be doing. I don't think you need me to tell you that. The money isn't important if you enjoy what you are doing. If it wasn't for paying off loans for flying then I'd rather be a poorly paid helicopter pilot. I live in hope.

[tbc]

Again thanks to all for the feedback - even to those that have hijacked the original theme including Jackstall who appears to blame ex-military pilots with a pension for being the root cause of the low wages.

[Letsby Avenue]

Jackstall.. Do you really expect, just because I am ex Military, that I am going to stand by and refuse every rotary job that comes my way (my record is 5 in about 36 hours by the way) just because I am in receipt of a military pension? Would you prefer that I worked in a supermarket instead?

[This message has been edited by Letsby Avenue (edited 18 January 2001).]

[john du'pruyting]

The subject of our pay crops up yet again.
1. It is naive to expect a military pilot coming out of the forces with a pension, not to accept a job because of the relatively low salary. ( and I speak/write as somebody without a military pension). If they can get a job flying, that they enjoy and which supplements their pension, then it stands to reason that they will take it, it is a dog eat dog world.
2. There is a lot of nonsense talked about BALPA
It has not been unusual for BALPA reps to move into management, It does not always mean that they screwed their comrades beforehand.
BALPA remains the only sensible union or organisation for ALL pilots on the UK but, you only get out what you put in. The reason that we in the helicopter world perceive BALPA as being mainly for FW in general and BA in particular is because those organisations provide more people who are willing to put the extra work in and represent their comrades (I can't spell colleagues!).
To be honest our/my conditions are not bad, (heresy) however, I wouldn't mind a bit more salary, but the only way onshore pilots as a group will push salaries up is if we all have a single voice. At the moment, the only group that can provide that voice is BALPA, so rather than dripping about pay, conditions, ex-mil pilots depressing the pay levels, fw pilots freelancing, roads, the aqueduct and public health.
Consider joining...

[Aerospit]

And what about all those ex-military pilots who do not have a pension? They have a right to go for jobs as the rest of the civil community, after all they are now civilian pilots! They are just changing from one company to another.