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martina
28th Aug 2005, 17:16
Hi all. My name is martina and i am getting flying lessons in Ireland near enough to my home town. My flight instructor is a real ass and keeps asking me stupid questions that i cant answer. I'm posting on this site to see if i can get help with one of his questions and actually answer him so he will stop bothering me. The question was " what is the distance in kilometres as the bird flies from the statue of liberty to the Spike on O'connel street in Dublin city(Ireland). It's a tough one but i know someone out there can help me.

bafanguy
28th Aug 2005, 17:50
Martina,

Here's a question for you : why are you still involving yourself with an instructor with whom you aren't comfortable ?

Learning to fly requires a bit of comfort and respect by the student for his/her instructor. The absence of this comfort will impede the learning process and, ultimately, not be in your best interest.

There must be at least TWO instructors in Ireland. Good luck to you.

hazehoe
28th Aug 2005, 17:51
Anyway, to be accurate you would have to use spherical trigonometrie , which is no longer required for the Gen Nav exam at ATPL level . What is required is to calulate departure( 2 points at the same Latitude), for example 60N 130W and 60N 10W, 1 degree is 60Nm at the eqautor and at 60N it's half .you take in this case the difference between 130 and 10 (120) x 60 x cosine of the Latitude (cosine 60=0.5) ,there is your answer.

If you ask the guys flying across the Atlantic they might tell you: look at the INS.

Don't have my ATPL notes here ,maybe some guys still know the formula by hart.

If you know the LAT/LONG of both places, just put it in one of the calculators on line ;http://www.wcrl.ars.usda.gov/cec/java/lat-long.htm
There are a lot of those around,find the LAT/LONG for both places and fill in the blanks on this site ,that will get him to Sh.. up.:ok:

hazehoe
28th Aug 2005, 18:46
look at your other post with the same question, a little bit of work and you have the answer:8

martina
28th Aug 2005, 18:56
I did look at the help you gave and i am greatful. It's just i don't understand that well. literaly for the last twenty minutes i have been trying to find out the longtitude and latitude of both places with little luck. is there a website that can help me find their precise lat/long?

enicalyth
28th Aug 2005, 19:06
martina

this is silly. at such a delicious stage in learning to fly you do not need to know right now. give him this and tell him if he is smart enough, he can work it out for himself and would he mind getting on with teaching?

tell your instructor that... cosine distance = (sin latitude 1 x sin latitude 2) + (cosine latitude 1 x cosine latitude 2 x cosine difference in longitude). tell him the answer isn't in kilometres.

even if it was, it would be approximate.

tell him from me that after 35yrs flying i have not heard such nonsense.

then ask him how far is it in old admiralty miles from blinky bill on top of sydney harbour bridge to the top of the eiffel tower.

i don't know and nor does he.

change instructors

wishing that your next instructor is as good as mine was, the inimitable one, he was even my best man.

best rgds

the E

martina
28th Aug 2005, 19:13
you know something, your right. Curiousity is getting the better of me and being Irish that ain't great. Thanks

Snoopy2
28th Aug 2005, 19:16
5126.94 km according to google earth. :ok:

enicalyth
28th Aug 2005, 19:26
I should have added that if your twonk of an instructor can use the formula i quoted it gives him the angle between the two points as measured at the centre of the earth. if he ensures that he is working in degrees and not radians and then multiplies that angle by 60 he gets something close to the distance in nautical miles.

Bin him martina and if you are ever in arklow or glenties, mention my name. that should get you thrown out of every pub. but then you would not want to be seen in any pub that would serve me!

very best of luck for nothing beats that first solo. whatever else you do or don't do, you become a different person from that very hour when you see your instructor's back walking away from you

how do you say it?

slainte?

or is that the sweaties?

the E

hazehoe
28th Aug 2005, 19:27
enicalyth , yes that's the one, your memory is better then mine.

One thing i still remember is that we used Co-lat's(90-LAT) in this formula with the North pole as starting point since there is no room in the equation to recognize if you are in the N or S hemisphere, and thus you would create a mathematical mess if you would start from lets say South Africa to New york.

Don't know where to find Lat/Long for specific places that you asked for in your other post . Just take your GPS there and look at the read out.

Cheers

hazehoe
28th Aug 2005, 19:56
Martina one more thing and i leave this alone, if you want to have some fun ask Einstein what distance he is talking about, air or ground distance ?
And if he in front of you wants to calculate the PET/PNR,the wind over the Atlantic is lets say 300/80 , temp -56C and IAS 300kts.

Have fun with your new instructor:p

Oh yes and the endurance of the bird is 8 hours,fast bird right!

enicalyth
28th Aug 2005, 22:31
Colatitude! Heh Dude! Use the sine rule!

I remember that one. I used to like it because as you say you address from a fixed point and once you cross Neptune's Line... well maths takes care of the sign. So I deleted that from my memory bank.

Anyway in Auntie Podea we are the right way up and that is all that matters. [Podeans drink warm beer and wouldn't know a meat pie from a flat frilled lizard].

But point one.

Poor martina. Let's not fizz her out, this is her post, so all of us remember that delicious moment when we went first solo. Forget wings, forget squadron, forget first RPT. Never forget first solo.

Give the lass much encouragement. The nav manuals can sit on the shelf for the mo'

"E"

None of the above
29th Aug 2005, 07:15
Statue of Liberty: 49.69000N 74.04545W

O'Connell Street/Henry Street: 53.34981 6.26031W

This site http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~cvm/latlongdist.html

computes the distance as 4533.9099km

Error! See correction two posts on.

N o t a

swh
29th Aug 2005, 09:23
johnyirish-ga/martina,

From the Spire of Dublin (53°20'59"N 06°15'37"W) to the Statue of Liberty (40°41'21"N 74°02'40"W) is 5133 km.

BTW saw the question you posted on Google answers also, the answer you got by palitoy-ga on Google was incorrect due to the incorrect DMS to DD conversion.

None of the above,

That position "Statue of Liberty: 49.69000N 74.04545W" is in remote north east Canada, hence the error in your distance.

:ok:

None of the above
29th Aug 2005, 09:46

Finger trouble, so Statue of Liberty should read 40.69000N (remainder as stated) which comes out as 5124.6865km.

An object lesson in the cumulative effect of a century or two of insomnia!

N o t a

Crashed&Burned
29th Aug 2005, 17:13
...who cares....

con-pilot
29th Aug 2005, 18:46
Crashed&Burned wins!:ok:

Grandpa
29th Aug 2005, 19:20
"Is the bird flying ortho or loxo?"

acbus1
29th Aug 2005, 19:33
Of course, this thread could be a big practical joke, but sadly, the original question sounds like the sort of rubbish certain types of instructor would actually come up with! In the UK, CAAFU, the RAF and their like all have prime examples of such morons in their ranks.

I'll give the original question the respect it deserves........by ignoring it.

Loose rivets
30th Aug 2005, 00:22
Five hours at 50 mph, or 12 hours at 30 mph, then splash.

Onan the Clumsy
30th Aug 2005, 03:02
There are an infinite number of answers depending on the altitude...or at least the distance from the centre of the Earth :8

piperboy84
30th Aug 2005, 03:36
Tell him:

who gives a shit, the furthest I,m ever gonna fly this little 152 is till it runs low an gas, which pretty much covers the entire Island

av8boy
30th Aug 2005, 06:25
I'm glad this was moved to Jet Blast. I was a little shocked to find it in the ATC section... While not exactly akin to Heisenberg, I DO have some issues: as an ATCer I've got a pretty good idea where an airframe is at a given point in time and how fast it's going, but by the time I figure the sort of distance from where it is to where it's going, it's no longer there and I've got to start all over again.

:confused:

Erwin Schroedinger
30th Aug 2005, 19:24
To ansver ziss quveztion, yoo haff too sink otszide zee box.

Und I cannot doo zat. :(

Mac the Knife
30th Aug 2005, 19:34
Surely there are TWO distances?

The short way round and the long way round.....

:E