Getting your 'Wings' 2005 style? (Recruiting homosexuals to the military)

[Bronx]

Getting your 'Wings' 2005 style?

BBC world news story -- Army joins parade for Gay Pride

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40735000/jpg/_40735484_prides203.jpg

The Army have joined a gay pride parade for the first time, as soldiers marched with lesbians and gay men at Manchester's Pride Festival. About 10 uniformed soldiers paraded and manned a recruitment stall.

Some 20 RAF colleagues manned a float featuring a plane cockpit - the RAF was the first armed service to join a gay pride festival at last year's event.

The Royal Navy said its decision not to attend was not intended as a snub, but was due to large numbers of servicemen and women being on leave and Manchester not being near a naval port.


Festival Director Claire Turner said it was great "the Army is coming." :D

[B Sousa]

Military Recruiting is not fashionable lately and its tough to find folks willing to sacrifice a choice of making a living or doing Military Service.
Its the same in the states the Military will go anywhere to find some willing to serve.

I guess we can change the slogan from "Good men are hard to find" to match the picture of "Hard men are good to find. Can you imagine the winged dude as your "Drill Instructor" or do we have to change that name also.......

Im roaring with laughter..............

[[email protected]]

So the Royal Navy are still in denial despite all the jokes about 'Rum, bum and 'baccy' and the golden rivet.. Maybe they really do believe it doesn't count after 3 days at sea and that you are only gay if you push back!

As for the military recruiting more gays, I'm off before it becomes compulsory!

[vortexstate]

One can sense a bit of a hot topic on the boil!:hmm:
From when I joined the Navy in the 80’s, times have changed drasticlly in the Australian Services. The old idea of a gay soldier/sailor/airman not being able to back up his mates (pardon the pun) and do the job, just don’t cut the mustard anymore. :yuk:
There have been gays in the forces for more years then anyone cares to remember, and they were in positions that many a troop had to rely on them. Sure, everyone knew of the goings on but it was over looked by all!
I agree that there has to be a form of screening for the correct personal, as to all applicants, but as long as a person can conduct the task properly then who has the right to hold them back?
Welcome to the 21st Century Ladies and Gentleman………:ok: :ok:

[Heliport]

Bert

I don't think that individual on the left is actually in the army ... yet. ;)

(According to today's Sunday Times, the Ministry of Defence has confirmed the recruiting policy also applies to transvestites.)

[B Sousa]

" the Ministry of Defence has confirmed the recruiting policy also applies to transvestites."
Now that could be a problem. How does one in the military select his/her/its uniform. Cross dressing Sergeants wear what to the parade??
Political Correctness is so nice and Im so glad Im retired...........

[SASless]

Oh...this could be interesting....choice of dress...choice of bunking...loo use...and could one alter those choices based upon which personality was dominant that day?

Or....would a mixture of gender attire be the standard?

Would you address the individual as Sir, Maam, or somewhere in between?

I can see a Drill Instructor getting very confused....as they like to keep things simple....and use direct methods to address issues. Sounds like the DI's need to be issued Stress Cards so they might be able to take a Time Out if it becomes too terrribly complicated for them to sort out.

[tommacklin]

I wonder what the angel/fairy in whites is saying to the QMSI.......

C'mon Q, please play with me.....

I wonder what that 10 man team did wrong to be sent on that detachment.

[B Sousa]

"wonder what that 10 man team did wrong to be sent on that detachment."

Two opinions. Either:
1. The first Ten Persons on the Sgt Majors Sh1t list.
2. At home with the Crowd.

[Letsby Avenue]

Is that 'tommacklin' a Royal Engineer?

[Whirlygig]

Monty Python's soldiers on parade drill did this some time last century!

Announcer: And now a precision display of bad temper.

Soldiers: My goodness me! I am in a bad temper today, two three! Damn damn, two three! I am vexed and ratty, two three! And hopping mad!

Announcer: And now, the men of the Second Armored Division with their famous close order swanning about.

Sergeant: Squad... Camp it up!

Soldiers: Ooh get her!
Whoops, I've got your number ducky, you couldn't afford me dear, two three. I'll scratch your eyes out!
Don't come the Brigadier bit with us dear, we all know where you've been, you military fairy.
Two, three, one, two, three, four, five, six.
Whoops! Don't look now girls, the man has just minced in with that jolly colour Sergeant, two three. OOOOH!

Cheers

Whirls

Somebody was going to do it so it might as well have been me!!

[tommacklin]

In a former life Letsby, yep, thats me. pm me.

tam

[Heliport]

You prejudiced, intolerant, homophobic lot!
(Apart from vortexstate who's in the 21st Century.)
The "Gay Pride" march is to show that homosexuals are proud to be as they are, as normal as heterosexuals, and shouldn't be thought of as 'different.'

Here are some more pics from the march.
(Copyright Manchester Online)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Heliport/Gaywings.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Heliport/Gayschoolunif.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Heliport/Gayhabit.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Heliport/Gaycheek.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Heliport/Gayboys.jpg

[Whirlygig]

Heliport - a good point, well made!

Cheers

Whirls

[Heliport]

Make a point?
Moi?

I just thought Bert might like to see the winged dude from a different aspect and included a few others to give a flavour.

Wonder how the Army and RAF recruitment drives went?

[Dave_Jackson]

Is the "plane cockpit" in the lead article a reference to the unadorned jockstrap in the accompanying photo?

[aeromys]

This one is running well in "The NAAFI Bar" section in the Army Rumour ARRSE forums - the only other Forums worth reading other than PPRUNE :E

ARRSE (http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums.html)

[Agaricus bisporus]

You prejudiced, intolerant, homophobic lot! The "Gay Pride" march is to show that homosexuals are proud to be as they are, as normal as heterosexuals, and shouldn't be thought of as 'different.'

Heliport. You may find your views are not understood by a large part of the community. Indeed you may find your views are reviled by a large proportion of the communty with conventional morals, which no doubt you will deride as not being "politically correct", if I may use such a revolting phrase. The problem with your viewpoint is THAT IT IS ITSELF POLITICALLY INCORRECT, in that it tries to tell those with a differrent viewpoint to yourself that they are wrong, and you are, for some unaccountable (and entirely self justified) reason, correct, and that they have no right to express views that are based on moralities centuries if not milennia old instead simply because you said so...But you of course are free to say what you want... Doesn't sound too democratic to me.

Homophobic? Don't make me laugh. The root of the word "phobic" is "fear". Do you seriously suggest anyone fears these people? Get real!

"As proud to be as normal as heterosexuals" Oh fer chrissakes! You must be off your trolley to suggest such nonsense! Normal!!!!??? What heterosexual dresses up in leather and walks around in public with his arse hanging out? Normal? You want to take a reality check pal. If anyone carried out a bad taste stunt like that outside a homo's rally they'd be arrested for indecent exposure and probably get a sex offender's lifelong listing too. And rightly so too.

Sadly in this mad mad world ruled by the poison of political "correctness", surely the ultimate in doublespeak; it seems that the queers can get away with behaviour that would have anyone else banged up on indecency charges, yetsome people will still try to suggest their behaviour is "normal". This is simply a distortion of reality. Human sexual activity is intended to procreate the species and involves, ipso facto, men and women. When people start to root inanimate objects, animals, children, men or cabbages then they have clearly gone off the rails. That cannot, under any misuse of the language, be described as "normal".

Thirty years ago your viewpoint was regarded as criminally obscene. I accept that nowadays that obscenity has become a widespread tacit acceptance amongst those who are willing to reject centuries of well founded morality at the behest of the cheapest tabloids, but you must recognize that there is still a substantial proportion of the community that retains the traditional morals and is utterly revolted by the in-yer-face offensiveness of such capers. Their rights not to be offended are at least as valid as yours, propbably more so as they are backed up by centuries if not milennia of convention, unless you are so arrogant as to suggest that your johnny-come-lately ideas are somehow superior to those existing for centuries or more.

I shudder for the future - the next 30 yrs, if the same "anything goes" mentality that you represent follows the logical path and starts to include perhaps children and animals in the same way...

Is that your idea of normality?

;)

[reducing_Nr]

Oh,

Someone's hit a nerve!! hahahaha

[Dave_Jackson]

Heterosexual activity is exalted because it is the precursor of sexual reproduction. Procreation and the genetic continuum is perhaps mankind's most basic drive.

However, today's gene manipulation, stem cell research and cloning are changing the means of reproduction. Eventually, the act of reproduction and act of sexual gratification will loose their strong association. Along with this loss will be the diminishment of the manmade morals that were developed to bond the two activities together.


I speak on this subject from personal experience.

For many, many years I was trisexual. I had this strong desire to 'get it on' with cute, cuddly, little sheep. Then one day they cloned Dolly. As you can imagine, my world fell apart. The psychiatrist spent years trying to make me heterosexual. He said he would even settle for bisexual. Alas the frontal lobotomies were taken too far. I became asexual.

[offshoreigor]

Agaricus bisporus

Although your words are obviously well intentioned and heart felt........Take a Chill Pill! Then go to confession and say 20 Hail Mary's!

Dave_Jackson

Your point was well taken and very eloquent.

Why not just let people do what they want to and not get in their face? For instance AB, if you want to go to the local Pub and raise hell and go home with whatever..does anyone rattle yer chain? I don't think so.

DJ, I concur. Leave those who want to be whatever to themselves, Mother Nature will eventually sort it out.

Heliport, its sad to see you take the brunt of this abuse but thats why they pay you the big bucks, right?

:eek: OffshoreIgor :eek:

[B Sousa]

OK, as much as my 80 IQ will let me enter this one.......
I Dont give two hoots if these Morons want to walk around with there Asses hanging out. Do it in front of children and be prepared to eat a Cricket Bat..........
Other than that have a nice day......
That aint Homophopic, just common sense.
Anyway few can become Helicopter Pilots, they cant keep it in trim........always want to stick the Tail Rotor in the wind...

[offshoreigor]

B Sousa

I always heard that if you can't Hover, your'e QUEER!

Must be true.

:eek: OffshoreIgor :eek:

[[email protected]]

Heliport - I don't think Agaricus understands your sense of humour - maybe he doesn't do irony.

[maxspeed]

Puts a whole new meaning on the old army saying "never leave your mates behind!"

[ThomasTheTankEngine]

Im with Heliport on this one, these people are not hurting anyone so let them live there lives.

[flygunz]

I would like to take issue with the photo on the first post. That blokes dress sense, outrageous head wear and his obvious display of sexual innuendo and provocative ' in yer face' suggestion, was an assault on my sensitivities. How he and the others were allowed to get away with it is beyond me.
And as for the guy on the left............

[BlenderPilot]

I really don´t have anything against gays, the only time when Gay people can get on my nerves is whey they start to show how ¨proud to be gay they are¨

Being Gay is a health problem, I´m not sure but I think it has to do with a psycological problem, something in your childhood, a chemical inbalance I really don´t know, but I know its an oddity of nature and its abnormal. The same way I wouldn´t hate someone that has cancer, I wouldn´t hate someone Gay.

But when it bothers me is when they start saying they are proud of having this problem, and then they start to publicly flaunt it and showing everyone their problem. I just don´t get it, I mean I don´t see a Gay parade and run them over or scream things I just think inside of me . . . That I never see people with say paranoia or other psycological disorders make pride parades, why should they?

Let's not forget it's not normal to be gay, why be proud of it, I have never seen a "oligophrenic pride parade" or have I ?

Now about having Gay people in the armed forces, well I see where that could bring lots of problems.

[flygunz]

Thanks Blender, it's taken me 20 mins to find out how oligophrenics translates into English and I'm still none the wiser! :{
So come on then spill those cowboy beans ? ya'll.

:ok:

[Hilife]

I would have thought that in general, sexuality is not a matter of choice but one of genetic make-up and therefore not something that we choose.

Homosexuality was always frowned upon in the Armed Forces as well as society as a whole and therefore it does not follow that a change in attitude should follow a change in legislation.

Surely this is part of a much bigger discussion, the rights and acceptance of minority groups in society.

If society is to open its arms to homosexuality then surely this must include acceptance of all minority groups and their actions alike. How about inviting Gypsies to stay on our village greens, or allowing the preaching’s of religious extremism in our schools, - I think not.

Dressing as they do, the 'gay pride' paraders set themselves apart from mainstream society and therefore leave themselves open to ridicule, and I would hazard a guess that a large proportion of the homosexual community must cringe at the site of these parades.

For this reason I would have to question why the Armed Forces should elect to take part in such events.

[bullshitproof]

Whatever next ! ! if you want to push **** up hill get a wheel barrow.

[danflybe]

I cant really believe what I have just read. I have never heard such nonsense in my life (with the exception of a few balanced comments)

The Gay/Cancer comparison has to be the most awful. You see people who are homosexual as suffering from a terminal illness? Or are you still of the opinion that it can be 'treated'? Just not with chemo like a cancer but with electric shock therapy. What age are you people living in? Are doctors searching for a cure to homosexuality - i think not - because its not an illness, it a very small part of someones personality.

I personally do not feel the need for some people to make such a spectacle of themselves on such marches and I am gay. Infact it is a bit cringeworthy. But after so many years of persecution and bigoted views from some areas of the community can you understand why people would want to say they are not ashamed of who they are?

Some of you are pilots and I imagine you must have an awful time working with us gay stewards (and infact some of your colleagues on the flight deck I should imagine) with the attitudes you show on here.

[B Sousa]

Some of you are pilots and I imagine you must have an awful time working with us gay stewards

Funny you mentioned that Danflybe. Not being a Heavy Driver but a Lowly Helo Pilot. I have never had the luxury of a Coffee Moffee working in my little put-put. I have, however, flown on many airlines for many miles and as a passenger never given it a second thought. It just goes with the territory that all male stewards are considered gay. I wonder why that is?? What is the attraction for the Gay Male to this line of work...Its not easy work either, be one Male/Female/Confused. I can guarantee if I had to put up with some of the passengers I have seen, I would certainly Bitch Slap more than one.

Back to the topic. I think most would agree that again most dont care what these folks do. Its their lives, they have to live it. I dont. In fact I have been accused of being a Lesbian......My wife may even agree.
Its the ridiculous "we have to prove something attitude" What do they have to prove. Their :mad: queer?. Why do I need to know that . I also noted in the area of the parade there appeared to be some family types going by. I still think its inappropriate behavior in front of kids. Two dads...I don theeenk so senor.
So whats next a monument as to what the gay community has given to the world........Lets see.. No more fun sex, unless you want to die...... Ummm, maybe not chasing the girls in Bangkok(ironic name), Paris or any of a hundred spots......
Here in Africa its so bad they are literally running out of Burial space. TV tonight said that 40% of the Swazi adults live with HIV.
Thats FORTY :mad: Per Cent.
So go to the parades, have fun, but dont give me that pride Bullsh1t as there aint much to be proud of

Ouch, The Edit Police got me. I forgot we cant put letters by our censored words.... Sorry about that.

[Bronx]

So long as there aint kids involved what folk get up to in private is their business. They can get their kicks from sex acts with other guys, animals, a pot of peanut butter and jello or any other perversion they want and it's no business of mine. Same goes if guys want to dress up as fairies and nuns.
What I got no time for is the in ya face sort who just gotta make a big thing about it when they're not in private and then expect to be treated as if buggering other guys and such like is normal. Yeah its gone on since the beginning of time. So's bestiality but that dont make it normal behavior. We're all expected to respect their feelings but they don't show any respect for regular folks feelings.
And if you say having sex with other guys or animals is wrong or abnormal you're a bigot. :rolleyes:

Its all fine and dandy in theory to recruit them into the military so long as they keep what they get up to in private lives to themselves. If they don't and flaunt it in folks faces then they aint got anyone to blame except themselves if they get told what most folk think about that sort of behavior. If you dont want a reaction dont provoke one.

[Letsby Avenue]

Unfortunately the rules won't let me just post a vomit icon - so now I've padded it out a bit, here we go...


:yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[Cyclic Hotline]

Call me old fashioned, but how the hell did this end up in Rotorheads? :uhoh:

[Heliport]

I guess because the recruiting programme covers all branches of the Army and the Army Air Corps operates helicopters.

[hemac]

To try and bring a slightly balanced view to the forum.

Firstly it would appear that the thread is about a Carnival, albeit the focus is on being proud about being gay.
How many 'straight' carnivals do you see where the attendees are dressed in business suits? not many I bet, usually people wear outlandish costumes and prance around generally enjoying themselves. Which appears to be the case here, the only difference is instead of sexy latin women with virtually no clothes on there's fat northern blokes.
Why can't children go to this party?
I didn't see in the pics anyone buggering anyone else, male or female. I'm sure there was music and laughter and colourful costumes the like of which I'm sure my young daughters would have loved and I certainly wouldn't have kept them away because some of the people there had their bottoms showing. Shock horror. The music, theatre, film and television world is full of gay people but in todays media crazed society I'm sure most of the people condemning this festival would love their child to be a famous actor, singer, etc.

That's all I have to say on the matter. Take a good look at yourself and make sure you're not a hypacrite.

H.

[Milt]

We should be thankfull that very few of the gays breed.

[SASless]

I begin to wonder about Barristers.....wigs and all that....but sans the pink ribbon trimmings...maybe Flying Lawyer can explain what University degree in law is signified by the pink trimmings? (Guess it had to be Pink....Blue just would not be gender correct now would it?)

Somehow....I am not shocked by all this....way deep down inside my heart I know I should be for some reason. Grandma would swallow her Snuff if she could see those photographs. She would not have gotten past the bad manners part of the bare assed chaps (the apparel and the person) thus the rest of the issues would have gone unremarked about.

Somehow I question the "rightness" of the travelling public being ambushed by such behaviour....one minute you are having a nice walk with the youngun's then poof....you are having to explain men in women's clothing....bare asses in public....and Lord knows what else.

They can call it "Pride".....I merely call it being rude and obnoxious. Hire the Legion Hall and do whatever you wish behind closed doors...but not in public. The Pride Nazi's might as well be Born Again for all their zeal in trying to convert others to their way....they waste their time on me....The Born Agains do as well. I ain't lost Jesus and I sure have not lost anything but my sense of humour with the other bunch.

I don't reckon calling them simple Wankurs would be acceptable?:E

[emergov]

You know, oral sex was considered indecent, and was actually illegal in several US states until quite recently. I can't recall there being a series of 'blowjob pride' marches in the streets of those states when the laws were repealed. The big difference is that very few men were denied membership to clubs, shunned by their church or simply beaten up at the bus stop because they copped the odd blowjob. I just can not understand the interest, let alone the outrage displayed by the bigots - that's means intolerant and close-minded, for all you rednecks out there - on this forum.

You know, all decent and morally upstanding people wipe their bum from the back; but there are a bunch of degenerates in the world who wipe their bum from the front !!! They're out there, leering at you from street corners!!! Be afraid, B Sousa! Run for your life Bronx! If they touch you, you might be tempted to wipe from the front too!!!!

I had a thought about why there's a recruiting stand at a gay pride march. Where else are you going to find thousands of men of recruiting age in the same place? But I think the recruiters would only achieve limited success. After all, why would any self-respecting gay man join an organisation where everyone flaunts their heterosexuality with pictures of wives and girlfriends on desks, and blokey banter about the chick they squared away on the weekend?

[B Sousa]

This Puppy is on the fast track for another forum..............

[vortexstate]

As I mentioned early in this post, welcome to the 21st century, but I also see that many a person here are lingering in denial and have no tolerance for their neighbour. The way most of you are talking, one would think that the defence is recruiting men to load armourments into the 6” gun while wearing a toto. Wake up………

Not too sure if people are more tolerant here in Australia, but during the last decade since we made the changes and accepted gays into the forces, I have heard of no dramatic problems at all. I defy any of you to stand by and be able to point out ALL the gay sailors walking down the gangway or maybe point out ALL the gay soldiers

. So long as there aint kids involved what folk get up to in private is their business.

For a seemingly intelligent person to suggest this, is suggesting that all perverts are gay! WRONG AGAIN!
Fact – most pedophiles are STRAIGHT men, generally a step father that preys on his step kids and/or their friends.
Many men that are into cross dressing are happily married men, but love the feeling of sheer women’s undies

Some gay men maybe a little out there for the likings of many (myself included) but they are generally transparent in their way of life, unlike the predator who lurks behind a seemingly steady marriage!

Milt, the gays do breed………
Most of the breeders are married men who when they require company, disappear down for a loaf of bread and some milk, only to end up in the local park for that five minute relief! Think about that one!

Now I’m not condoning everything I see and hear, but at least I have an open mind to the changing world.

Must go, as I have to complain about a disgusting advert I just saw on tele……..it showed boobies!


Brace! Brace! Brace!

[SASless]

Hey Bert.....I will freely accept the title of REDNECK....how about you? At least it is my neck that is red....

Reckon we could get away with some name calling of our own? But as usual in what ultimately winds up being a political argument....those on the left or liberal side engage in name calling and then take exception when it is returned. Shame the heterophobes out there cannot just learn to get along with the rest of the population.

[Flying Lawyer]

emergov"bigots - that's means intolerant and close-minded, for all you rednecks out there - on this forum. A bigot is someone who's prejudiced in their views and intolerant of the opinions of others. eg You're so convinced your view is right that you're intolerant of people expressing a different view, and even resort to calling them rednecks.
Is it bigoted to express disapproval of behaviour of any sort? Are we required to keep an open mind about everything if we are to avoid being accused of bigotry?

vortexstate
I've tried to see how what Bronx said can reasonably be (mis)interprereted as suggesting that all perverts are gay. He said nothing of the sort.

I'm interested in your 21st Century point. Are you suggesting that new is necessarily better? Should people change their views because they're told their existing views are no longer politically correct? Are all long-established standards of behaviour necessarily wrong?
What does "lingering in denial" mean? People whose opinions aren't in line with what they are now told they should think?

"no tolerance for their neighbour"
Are you perhaps confusing tolerance with approval? I can tolerate people doing all sorts of things even though I don't approve of what they do.

[ShyTorque]

As a heterosexual male, I wouldn't want to be be put in a situation where I might be obliged to share a communal bathroom with a bloke who might get some homosexual gratification from such a situation.

Why should I (or the silent majority like me, as I am no longer part of the military) be put in such a situation, which in my opinion goes totally against good order and discipline?

Or will heterosexual men be allowed to use the ladies bathroom if they prefer, in order not to show any prejudice? ;)

[Thomas coupling]

:E
I challenge anyone out there to successfully bring this thread back onto the rotorhead forum route???????

Where are we going with this:mad:

[Rot8tor]

I am gay; I know other gay pilots. I do not fit the stereotypical handbagging 'Are you being served' gay that many on this forum seem only to recognise. I was in the forces, still drink beer in vast quantities, played rugby, and generally act like a 'normal' bloke - such that those not knowing me are sometimes left literally speechless to find me in a homosexual relationship.

The military panicked about the influence gays might have on good order and discipline (good God that married heterosexual might find out he also fancies blokes!), or Alexander the Great may abuse his position to abuse the cutest batman ..... As if there are no affairs or favours in the heterosexual military world. And someone in the forum thinks that I might get excited should I share a room with him! How presumptious. Richard Cranium. He probably thinks we are incapable of flying, managing or even making a decision. How insulting.

I have never seen a gay get into a fight because of excess alcohol, unlike the disgusting scenes of many drunken heterosexuals. In the military many heterosexuals watched the inevitable porno movies ... many seemed excited by anal sex - which seem to form the vast majority of scenes. How hypocritical to claim how unnatural this act might be. And to infer that we gays like animals or children is just pathetic; unless of course you subscribe to the Germain Greer philosophy of the male species desiring only to empty its ball bag into the nearest available receptacle.

The penalty of any democracy is 'I am right and you are wrong' - I do not wish to thrust gay pride on you; but please therefore give us no reason to want to shout out against all the prejudice and hatred. You could of course hang us - they do that in other reputable societies - Iran has just hung two teenagers for homosexuality, and there are more awaiting execution:

And as for exposure of flesh - the photographs shown are no different to many of the rugby tours I did - drunken hairy men wearing wigs, underpants, exposing what they hadn't got etc etc

We've been around for centuries and will continue to be here until the asexual female appears, but I will desist otherwise I'd go on for hours .... I simply ask for tolerance, you know show the other cheek ....

(If you know me ... then you'll know I couldn't resist but reply!)

[diethelm]

Mr. Coupling:

In response to your request,

I have flown helicopters whose rotors go both ways and I think they are all just fine.

[ShyTorque]

Richard Cranium?

Rot8tor

"And someone in the forum thinks that I might get excited should I share a room with him! How presumptious. Richard Cranium. He probably thinks we are incapable of flying, managing or even making a decision. How insulting."

I am very possibly the someone you refer to, as my post mentioned a BATHroom, not just any room. I merely expect to be able to go to the bathroom without the concern of a possible sexual advance, in exactly the same way that a female would be concerned if a heterosexual male used the same bathroom as she.

You took one quote in isolation, then add further quotes from your own agenda and claim I have insulted you by "probably thinking" them. You insult yourself as well as myself. Your claims have absolutely no justification.

I never accused you of fighting and have never disgusted anyone by drunken fighting myself. I have never accused you or any homosexual of liking animals or little boys. I have no hatred of homosexual men and have never said you should be hanged for being homosexual (lucky you aren't an Iraqi, eh?).

You insult me and make false accusations, but then call ME a Dick Head? How do you expect to be credible and accepted?

[gyro gearloose]

ShyTorque,

You served in the Military and you don't think that you have already showered with gay males........

Bet you have and not known it!

Not all us gays are trying to convert you straights......

[ShyTorque]

I knew at least two for certain, one was my crewman, not that I showered with him though. I believe we held a mutual respect for each other's view and our professional ability.

Although at the time he could never have admitted it, I suspected he might be homosexual by his attitude to women. I was later proved correct.

There is no chance of me being converted, btw. I'm a lost cause. ;)

[Rot8tor]

One minute you say you suspected the crewman but he could never admit it ... and the next that you respected each others point of view .... how do you do that without talking? Or are you worried you may be accused of aidsing and abetting?

Yours happened to be the last post when I replied ... but my frustration had welled up reading the three pages before that - don't take all the points upon your own head. I certainly do not wish to 'convert' you ... that's left to RC priests!

My only agenda is to try and educate people that we are not untouchables, we live amongst you ... Instead of gay prides I would prefer to be accepted, as a minority, but WITHIN our society.

The thinking is that 5-8% of the population has homosexual leanings, yet even amongst, say, our professional footballers no-one dare admit to being gay due to the vile ribbing they would no doubt receive .... the statistics suggest they are there though (I have no doubt!).

I'm not gay, but my boyfriend is.

That reflects the lie I lived for many years due to the institutional thinking that still dogs many sectors of our supposedly civilised community. I will leave ppruners to judge my comments and convictions. Enough I retire, hurt .... awaiting the Ashes victory!

[SASless]

Quite agreed DietHelm....and my favorite ride was entered from the rear too. Big ol' hole it was....slippery too...especially when wet. Talking Chinooks here folks....get yer mind out of the gutter!:E

[Chairmanofthebored]

Time for a new moderator.
Why is this **** even in this forum. We come here to chat about work not this crap. Nothing in this thread is remotely about aviation and many other better threads have been canned in the past for such transgressions.

[The Rotordog]

It's ironic, straight guys say they hate it when gay guys throw their gayness up in everyone's faces. But straight guys do just that all the time. They're always strutting around, bragging about their latest sexual conquest, or making raunchy comments about a particular girl's attributes. Not to mention the fact that every straight guy seems to want to have sex with just about EVERY girl he sees and never fails to mention this. Why is that? Why do straight guys have to announce and reaffirm their straightness all the time?

Among other straight males, this is considered quite "normal" and accepted behavior. But no, you don't want me to throw *my* sexuality up in your face. How about returning the favor? Oh, but that's different.

The other strange thing is that some consider being gay a choice. We only need to turn that around and ask the straight people among us, did you choose to be straight? Could you really choose to be otherwise? If not, why do you assume a gay male makes that choice.

Yes, I am gay and I am a pilot. You would never know it if I did not tell you, and I do not tell you if it is none of your business. I have to put up with endless insulting fag-jokes. Pilots are a homophobic group.

I have been in situations where I showered and shared bathrooms with other, unsuspecting(!) males. Through some gargantuan effort of self-control on my part, I have managed to not molest any of them. No propositions or come-ons either. But it is curious that so many supposedly "straight" men feel so paranoid and threatened. Is the word "no" in your vocabulary? Do you know how to use it? Or...is it that you perhaps think that you might be powerless to resist? I have been propositioned by many women already, sometimes quite vigorously! I just smile and say "no thanks." I do not take insult or threaten them with bodily harm or arrest. You see I'm comfortable in my sexuality.

I have no idea why people are straight or gay. I only know what I am, and I know that I did not have a choice in the matter. And I also know that our prejudices, biases and beliefs are mainly handed down to us by our parents. Some we question, others we don't. It's easy to claim that homosexuality is a crime against nature, but there is little strong evidence to support that claim. Aside from purely personal feelings, objections to homosexuality come, primarily, from the Bible and our Christian-based society. But what if I do not subscribe to your Bible? Or any Bible for that matter? That might sentence me to hell after I die, but how should that affect how I'm treated in this life?

If I was a straight guy, I'd wish every other male on the planet was gay. More women for me!

P.S. to Chairmanofthebored: The thread title clearly indicates it is about recruiting gays in the military. You did not have to click on it, nor did you have to read every post. ...Or did you?

[ground effect]

Find yourself another helicopter forum where abusive posts are appreciated.


Heliport

[ShyTorque]

Rot8tor,

"One minute you say you suspected the crewman but he could never admit it ... and the next that you respected each others point of view .... how do you do that without talking? Or are you worried you may be accused of aidsing and abetting?"

Not sure what you mean by that, especially "aidsing and abetting" An unfortunate Freudian slip....?

Seriously, at that time, because of the circumstances prevailing within the services it was NOT a subject to be discussed. If I were to have asked a serviceman under my command, if he was of "another persuasion", or announced that I thought he was so, even in private, it would have been seen as a very great insult, especially so if he was in fact heterosexual. Even if I was correct, it would have been very unlikely that he would admit it as if it may have even resulted in him being dismissed from the services! Whatever the truth, it would quite possibly have resulted in a formal complaint against myself.

I therefore kept my suspicions to myself and never passed comment on the subject to anyone. He and I had actually a very good working relationship and because of his professional ability, I chose to work with him on a number of occasions, including single aircraft / single crew detachments. I stood up for him on at least two occasions when he was being criticised by others (once I thought unfairly, once because he made a professional mistake). On detachment I often preferred his company because he was very polite and had a great sense of humour. What more could I have done?

Some time after I left the services, a certain senior pilot "came out" under the public gaze and this other individual decided to take this opportunity to do the same while it was in the media highlight. My suspicion was therefore correct.

I wouldn't have wanted to share a bathroom with him, that's all.

[Heliport]

To those calling for censorship:

Regulars will know we very rarely delete posts/threads on this forum. When we do, it’s almost always because of personal attacks, bad language, libel or advertising.
This thread has a link to helicopters because the services employ helicopter pilots. The link is tenuous, but it’s there.
With some unfortunate exceptions, discussion of this sensitive topic about which many people have strong views in opposite directions has been conducted in a mature fashion without childish name-calling.

The subject of the thread couldn’t be clearer from the title. Those not interested in reading what others have said or not wishing to make a contribution to the debate can simply move on to topics which interest them or start a new one.
When topics don’t generate interest, they die through inactivity. This subject has generated 50+ posts and 2500+ views in four days so is far from inactive. When it runs out of steam, it will fall away naturally.

We prefer that method to censorship.

Heliport

[SASless]

I applaud Heliport for having the courage to allow such a thread on Rotorheads. The topic under discussion is timely, of value, and serves a good purpose. Any rational discussion of controversial issues proves interesting and as long as opposite viewpoints can be considered for their merits and those arguing their views can remain polite and respect the other person's right to their opinion, there is no reason we should not have similar threads in the future.

As Heliport knows, I hold different views than he on some other sensitive issues that are forbidden topics here at pprune, but I still respect him greatly despite our having opposed views. I would suggest anyone that thinks Heliport is remiss in his responsibilities as a Moderator here....surely misses the point of why the thread exists.

No one is obliged to engage in discourse here....if you do not like the topic....move on to one that does interest you.

Heliport has done an admirable job of moderating Rotorheads and serves as an example to other Mods here at pprune. I just wish some others could learn from him as it would make other forums much more enjoyable.

We do not have to agree folks....if we did it would be a very dull world to live in. We do have to allow others to offer their opinions even if we do not agree with them. Take issue with the concepts and thoughts offered...but show the courtesy of allowing them to speak without resorting to impolite behaviour in your response.

Keep after it Heliport....you got my vote and support.

(I prefer Theakstons if you please!):E

[Thomas coupling]

:yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[drag-queen joey]

I dont know whats wrong with gay folks. Most of the people hate them because of their direction but they are obviously good enough to get drafted to partake in the field of battle and serve as cannon fodder or elsewhere to put their lives on the line. But Hell they are a threat to society... All I am saying is screw you all. Cause I dont give a rats something as long as their lifestyle does not interfere with mine. Whats wrong of being different? This endless debate of poofty flightcrews, and blah, blah, Get real you plonkers and concentrate on the real issues:mad:

[emergov]

Flying Lawyer was quite right, and he makes a valid point about my use of the word bigot. I apologise.

However, I would like to say that context is everything in this issue, and the standard response of 'the majority' in calling 'a minority' bigoted (am not - are too) sidesteps the issue of discrimination entirely. For a start, minorities have no choice about tolerance...tolerate racism, or get lynched... tolerate sexual discrimination or lose your job...

I just want to repeat that it is amazing how much emotional energy is expended worrying about other people's sexuality when it is completely irrelevant 95% of the time.

The protections of freedom of speech and equity legislation do not extend to protect those who would use these rights to actively discriminate or promote hate. Tolerance is the issue, acceptance is a matter for people to discuss in their own homes.

[B Sousa]

Funny how the politics of Rotorheads is hanging on to this thread. Seems to be beating a dead horse. I notice the thread regarding the shooting at Helicopters in New Orleans has hit the :mad: Bin..
Must be or have something to do with the reality of who is doing the crime........... Since all of the culprits I have seen on the news are from one ethnic group it must be considered racism..

What do you think heliport.........

[Thomas coupling]

Careful B Sousa - pedal stop is a coming...........................

[Steve76]

Righton Bert and TC, I have already sent a letter of complaint about this. Considering the amount of half sensible and focused posts that get erased on this forum, it is nothing but a miracle this has persisted.
Complete BS.



"Considering the amount of half sensible and focused posts that get erased on this forum"
:confused:
Complete nonsense.
We very rarely even edit posts in this forum, and almost never erase them.

Heliport

[SASless]

Bert Buddy....

At your advanced age..."beating a dead horse"...is that a Freudian slip per chance?
:E

[B Sousa]

Sasless

ORWAC 70-28. You were before me............Lets not get into advanced age.
Great party tonight in Africa tomorrow Paris, Manchester and Newark........ then on to Vegas.
Looks like work in the gulf for a while as there appears to be some storm damage...

What was this thread about anyway..........

[SASless]

ORWAC....ORWAC!

That explains it....and confirms it simultaneously!

We of the WORWAC School always knew you ORWAC guys wuz Wayne Kerrs in uniform.

[EMS R22]

now now guys, leave the poor gays alone. I myself am as manly as they come but my last boyfreind was gay and he was a good pilot!

[SASless]

EMS....me and ol' Bert was off thread in that exchange....it had nothing to do with the topic of discussion thus nothing should be made of that exchange.

An explanation is probably in order....ORWAC....generally translates to Officer Rotary Wing Aviator Course (Commissioned Officers only.....), WORWAC translates to Warrant Officer Rotary Wing Aviator Course (Enlisted guys training to be Warrant Officer Helicopter Pilots- no officers).

The rub was complex....we mere WOC's got a temporary pay grade of E-5, lowest rank of SGT....per diem at an outrageous rate of about One US Dollar per day, lived in barracks, suffered under the old style Prussian training routine....ran everywhere we went....saluted everything that moved...painted everything that didn't....and after almost a year of training...became Warrant Officers One....the lowest rank of officers. The senior Warrant Officer...CW4 in those days still ranked lower than the newest 2nd Lieutenant. (Rank mind you...not prestige or horsepower).

The officer class on the other hand, had every night off, every weekend off, drove fancy sports cars paid for by their Twenty One dollar a day Per Diem, Flight pay commensurate to rank, sepearate quarters, rations, and other special pay.

The US Army in their infinite wisdom....required Warrant Officer Candidates to score higher on the Standard Army Qualification Test than they did commissioned officers thus one had to actually be smarter to be a Warrant Officer than a Commissoned Officer which immediately set up a disaster of the subordinates being commanded by the dimmer witted of the service.

Right Bert?

[BlenderPilot]

I've got a couple of Latina friends who could make any gay reconsider his sexual inclination after a few sessions !

Send the gay pilots over here for a week and then we'll all be on the same side!

(now seriously, I don't mean any disrespect for gay's, I all said is being gay is not normal, (nature wise) I really don't understand why they show it off?)

[Trislander]

Blender

Only those who choose to show it off, show it off. This I would reckon is a minority of our 'minority'. 'Normal' people I know and have met to date don't have a problem with it. Narrow-minded 'normal' people like you are the ones who have a problem, and these days YOU'RE a minority thank god. I'll bet there are classes YOU can attend to help you fit better into modern society.

:rolleyes:

[Ned-Air2Air]

Trislander - Get off your high horse, or high whore, whichever fits. Blender made a tounge in cheek comment, something you should be used to.

Before you start slagging off Blender find out a bit more about the person. He is one of the better indivudals here and well respected.

No matter how you look at it, homos, faggots, poofs, whatever you want to call yourselves, have only become the "in" thing with the new liberalised do gooder groups that have sprung up. Me, I cant stand your type, and I have absolutely no problem saying it. Am I narrow minded, not at all. Do I think rump riding is normal, hell no, and never will. I think you will find that the majority of people worldwide have this same "narrow minded" attitude.

Have a great day.

Blender - Dont waste your time with Turd Burglars. Come and chat with us "narrow minded" folk

:ok:

[SASless]

Blender,

I beg to differ with our good friend and colleague....you are not the one with a problem.

The one who shows intolerance is the one with a problem. If you don't like the reaction you get when you expose yourself....don't expose yourself....just go about your life without drawing attention to yourself and avoid the perceived insult.

Seems a popensity for some who walk on the other side of the street to engage in name calling and insults when someone suggests they prefer the fairer of the species vice their own kind. All the while suggesting Pride in their choice of lifestyles and the promoting of that lifestyle should be above criticism. Seems a contradiction to me.

To each their own.....and Blender...old buddy and friend...I do accept referrals...errrr...introductions.:ok: