Flying firemen

[Antoninus]

I posted this a couple of days ago on another forum but it looks no one gave a hoot...

This summer several pilots lost their lives fighting forest fires in France and other southern areas of Europe.
I haven't seen them mentioned here and I open this topic to render them justice.

When I lived in Nice I had the occasion to see these extremely skilled pilots working from up close --almost from under sometimes-- and they indeed do a very dangerous job, which consists basically in flying nap of the earth over steep hills, across very violent turbulences generated by the fires.
And I won't mention scooping up water..
My deepest thanks to the Canadair and Tracker and other types --and chopper-- pilots who helped put out those fires, and my heartfelt sympathy to the families of those who lost their lives. They helped save many.
They do a hell of a job.

[liftman]

...a really dear friend of mine died in May on in a canadair accident in Italy.....He like'd to fly and was really in love with his job.....

Don't forget ALL firefighting pilots!!!

Thanks to all

Liftman

[ComJam]

Staged through Adravida in Greece a few ago and had the pleasure of chatting to the HAF Water-bomber pilots. Tales of eye-balling a 50 foot pass over a fire, turbulence rolling the aircraft to in excess of 90 degrees at times and the loss of several guys. Bonkers but necessary job.

[Unwell_Raptor]

How do the Canadairs cope with the trim changes from picking up all that water in such a short time? I watched them working in Spain, and tried to imagine the effect of the drag from the scoop and the sudden increase in weight.

[Semaphore Sam]

Strictly on the face of it, this type flying seems to fly in the face of reality; for the absurdly small amount of water one can put on a fire's face, the assets endangered, both material and human, seem totally excessive. I've seen wings break off, pilots killed, aircraft stressed beyond limits, for not much more than the equivilence of spitting on a volcano. All admiration to the flying skills and courage, but...

Even if these efforts were to be successful, many of the fires put out might be seen as natural burns to control undergrowth; putting them out leads to much greater and disasterous fires later on. This whole effort, while courageous and highly skillful, seems....of dubious value.

[currawong]

And those doing it could not imagine being anywhere else, I suspect.

Heres to them.

[Kopeloi]

Semaphore Sam,
I think you are wrong in your opinions about how effective these water bombers are. I seen in person that even a small "bucket" under the helicopter can be extremely effective in bush fires. Canadair is hugely effective in same.

[Antoninus]

Semaphore Sam,
You obviously never lived on the French Riviera. "Natural fires to control overgrowth" threaten whole villages. They're very nice villages and we really don't wan't them to burn.
Besides, a lot of these "natural" fires aren't. It has to do with turning formerly protected areas into construction zones. The French Riviera is a very expensive piece of real estate.
A friend of mine had a villa in Grasse, on the hills overlooking Cannes. One summer the fire was stopped about twenty yards from his house, thanks to a Canadair. He didn't have a garden any longer, but he still had a roof over his head.
I'm a journalist and I covered some of these fires with the firemen on the ground, and it's a war. It's dealt with as such. The water-bombers are not used at random. They have a tactical use, exactly like a war. There are fronts, flanking movements, points of pressure, encirclements and so on. They are the equivalent of ground support aircraft working with the ground troops.
To copy from another popular saying: You may think losing a Canadair is costly, try losing a village, or a whole camping ground full of belgian tourists.."
These guys work is more than just a useful add-on, it's essential.
Without them, the beautiful forests of the French Riviera would be gone a long time ago.

[AT502]

Where are you Fiebombing pilots???? Is this the best firefighting aircraft or what???



AT502:cool: AT802F (http://www.airtractor.com/models/802F/)

[rotornut]

No, it's this one:

http://www.martinmars.com/

[North Shore]

How do the Canadairs cope with the trim changes from picking up all that water in such a short time? I watched them working in Spain, and tried to imagine the effect of the drag from the scoop and the sudden increase in weight.

Unwell, on the 215, we set the trim to ~ 2 or 3 degrees nose up prior to the scoop. When we touch down, there's a small pitch down that is easily controlled by a small check back. Ideally, if the trim is set perfectly, you can take your hands off the yoke once the tanks are full and the probes are up, and she'll skim along the water (assuming not too much wave action) all day. The tanks are located at the midpoint of the CG range, so there's no trim change needed on the scoop itself. On the drop, there's a pitch up, but again, a small check forward controls it. Does that help?

[Antoninus]

http://pompiers-vizille.org/photos/pelicans/ (http://)

A french site with great pictures of "Pelicans" (Canadair's nickname).

Looking at the pictures, the scooping procedures includes trying to avoid the F:mad:ing wind surfers..

[maxspeed]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v738/maxspeed01/18.jpg
http://www.desastres.org/waterbomber/about.htm
Gotta love the Russkies:}

[Unwell_Raptor]

Thanks North Shore. Nothing beats asking the guys who heve been there and done it!