RAF VR(T) Officers in your Mess

[mgdaviso]

Following on from the thread "Air Cadet Instructors", I am looking to gain advice from those of you in regular service.

Some critiscism is levelled at us VR(T) types when visiting your messes that we don't know how to behave properly, etc..

So, would any of you care to impart any advice?

I for one am confident that I behave myself when when I have the honour to be a guest in your messes, and always try to set a good example, but some of my colleagues who seem to lack training are asking what should/shouldn't they be doing???

I'm trying to pull together a briefing document so we can enlighten the masses.

obvious ones such as

Don't drink out of a bottle/can
Always stand your round at the bar
Don't abuse the mess staff, etc

already thought of... any more??

All advice/banter taken on the chin....

[DaveyBoy]

Get your hands on the latest Customs, Etiquette and Social Responsibility booklet from the IOT (or whatever it's now called) course at Cranwell, and read it alongside the rules for the particular mess you're visiting.

[Circuit Basher]

Not an exhaustive list, but a few observations from my 23 years of visiting messes and knowing what can really T off the natives - most are about basic courtesy!

Don't wear / carry outdoor coats, hats or briefcases in public areas (ante room, dining room, bar, etc)
Be considerate of fellow diners during meals - if at breakfast, recognise those who 'just wish to be alone' and don't try to force conversation
If in a hushed anteroom, don't sit in a large gaggle, discussing the days camp events - if you need a 'work' type meeting, public areas are not an appropriate place (unless empty of livers in)
Learn what the dress code is, when it applies and the meaning of any 'traffic light signals'
Don't expect the bar to stay open until you decide to order the last round - if it is a very quiet night, the steward may wish to shut the bar early
Don't hog the remote / channel hop in the TV Room if others are there
If someone's waiting for the snooker table and you're just having a knock about / just having a very slow game, at least offer the table to those waiting
Try to learn who the Stn Cdr / PMC are and what they look like - that way, you can recognise who they are when they appear in the bar in mufty!
During Sqn beer calls, try to identify if anyone is hosting and ask permission before joining in - offer thanks at the end
During happy hour, don't just try to buy rounds at half price and expect to get everyone else to pay when it's full price!! :D
Try to learn something about the station, its roles and key issues, so that you can understand / contribute to bar conversations
Learn humility / honesty!

As I say, most are just basic courtesies (but not all visiting staff seem to be aware of these).

[BluntM8]

Don't sit in the bar on a Saturday night with your laptop and files out and loudly plan your spaceys summer camp for that week. Respond to the hints we're dropping to stop working in the bar. :mad:

[mgdaviso]

BluntM8 - good god - the bar is for relaxing in, not working in - that makes me mad!

keep them coming, this is good stuff, thanks!

During Sqn beer calls, try to identify if anyone is hosting and ask permission before joining in - offer thanks at the end
ok - not sure on this one... care to elaborate what a beer call is and why someone would be hosting, and is it proper for "us" to ask to "join in", as we would be non-sqn personnel is this right?

Sounds a bit like crashing someones party uninvited to me?

[Toddington Ted]

Not all RAF Officers' Messes are the same. I am a member of one of the largest, if not the largest and it has about as much military ethos in it as a travelodge (that's because it looks like one). When I joined the RAF (Oh Gawd here we go!) all the Mess staff were RAF personnel and the civilian stewards were not working for some cheapo contractor. Formal functions can still be pretty good but ordinary day to day life, well I'm not impressed and neither, interestingly enough, are many of our students - and it ain't necessarily the fault of the newly graduated officers either - some of the slightly older mess members could do well to improve their OQs. When most military officers were not commissioned from the working classes (which would have therefore kept me out!) any high spirits damage to mess infrastructure was 'fessed up to and paid for. Today, some people seem to think that they can make a mess and leave it for someone else to clear up and pay for - not how to behave at all! I'll stop now as I'm beginning to sound like some of my more senior (in rank) colleagues at Sleaford Tech.

[TwoTunnels]

Remember to 'Spoon one's soup away from oneself, lest it cascade into one's lap' (Always sound advice in my mess)

[Vage Rot]

easy really,
talk to people,

integrate instead of staying in a group,

Listen not talk,

offer a drink or 2,

If at a beer call, club together and put on a barrel yourselves. Cost about £75. or put on half a barrel.

Don't be a know-it-all unless ur an ex- aircrew dude Chippy or bulldog flying don't count!

[Pontius Navigator]

As you will need a place to talk over the days activities and tomorrow's plans, ask the mess manager if you can use the Ladies room; that is what its for. It is vastly underused and is where insurance touts, shirt salesmen etc hide at lunchtime in the fond hope that mess members will find them.

If you are all in there, shut the door and no one will find you!

If you ask the mess manager nicely (PAYD excepting) they may even bring you a tray of tea in there.

[Abbeville]

>>Remember to 'Spoon one's soup away from oneself, lest it cascade into one's lap' (Always sound advice in my mess)<<

I was always told that 'you pushes yer soup and pulls yer pudding?'

Regds

A

[Onan the Clumsy]

I don't have the answers you are seeking, but I assume goosestepping is frowned upon.

[MrBernoulli]

Do NOT use your mobile phone in the bar, anteroom etc. Deal with your calls and texts outside of public rooms. It never ceased to amaze me how many people thought that their childish ringtones or loud telephone conversations were somehow everyones cup of tea. Army officers in RAF messes were particularly guilty.

[idle stop]

What an interesting set of observations. It is good to see that some old traditions (sorry are we (ex-)Crabs allowed traditions?) do not die. And a shame that some of these common courtesies don't spill out into other walks of life more often.
Vage Rot: just a small point, but, unless the rules have changed without my noticing, RAFVR(T) pilots doing Air Experience have always had to have been QSP at some time: they don't get a pilots brevet just because they are AEF pilots.
I have a lot of time for those who give up theirs for the ATC and CCF. Apart from several years during my own RAF service when I flew 'part-time' with a couple of AEFs and did some ATC/CCF Summer Camp flying, I had been a VR(T) officer for a couple of years between UAS and joining the RAF full-time; then the ATC was quite well resourced by the MoD and a fertile recruitment ground for both officer and other-rank entry to the forces. I suspect that the resourcing has fallen, but hope that the spirit lives on. Some VR(T) officers are ex-regulars, possibly there are still a few left who did National Service, but the others get a rudimentary few days of IOT: so please encourage and mentor these chaps.

PS: Since originally posting this I have seen the 'Air Cadet Instructor' thread. Good to see this discussion.

[pr00ne]

Don't wear / carry outdoor coats, hats or briefcases in public areas (ante room, dining room, bar, etc).



“……….And a shame that some of these common courtesies don't spill out into other walks of life more often.”


Why yes, that would make life so much more civilised, and SO sensible???????

To think I thought Mess life outdated in the sixties!

[Captain Kirk]

mgd,

I applaud your endeavour to learn how to fit in - equally though, beware being over zealous with this new found knowledge.

It has been quite some time since I lived-in but I still remember the irritation of having visitors (often, but not by any means exclusively, VR(T) officers) complaining about 'un-officer like behaviour' - usually after witnessing a boisterous happy-hour.

Perhaps most importantly, remember that you are a visitor and that others live and work (usually very hard) in that environment. You may witness some young men and women letting off steam like you have never seen before - this is sometimes (though admittedly, not always) the result of some extremely stressful experiences and is very important.

That you have the courtesy to ask leads me to believe that you will have no problem. Hopefully, your colleagues will also benefit.

[Mmmmnice]

Don't buy one Christmas Draw ticket, and win the top prize - or at least don't get seen when you pick it up! Wouldn't get overly exited about the whole behaviour thing HGD; given the MO of a few young Os these days - harrumph (of course I don't remember being young - surely I was born crusty?)

[cazatou]

You are in the Officers Mess because you are priviliged, as are the permanent members of the Mess, to have been granted Her Majesty's Commission.

Yes; the Mess is the home of those who, for whatever reason, "Live In"; but it is also your home whilst you are on temporary duty at that Station.

Absorb what has been said in the posts above this (disregarding the malign and insulting) and remember that you are priviliged to be a member of "the Finest Club in the World".

Enjoy yourselves, and pass on your enthusiasm to the young men and women who have volunteered to be members of your Units.

[Rev I. Tin]

"the Finest Club in the World".

Who let you in the Sgts'Mess?
Granted the female company is of the more mature and fuller figure variety, but the beer is cheaper and we generally behave ourselves (if we can stay awake).

God bless

[Blacksheep]

We never had hi-jinx in our mess when I was in either Rev. I once found the SWO face down, fast asleep across the snooker table with a cue in his hand. Some wag had carefully propped another cue against the seat of his pants to hold him in place.
Now that's what you call gentlemanly conduct. ;)

[Crashed&Burned]

Tips for VR(T) Officers in RAF Messes:

Flip flops are compulsory in the mess bar after 7.00pm in the Summer (but only in Lincolnshire).

Soup should be eaten using a staw (McDonalds straws are preferred for soups containing significant vegetable matter).

It is an RAF traditional that the during happy hour the Station Commander is addressed as 'Me Old Cock'.

Headgear is not permitted in public rooms ulnless the officer is on horseback.

I am sure my fomer colleagues will advise further little known mess rules.

C&B

[BEagle]

1. Entertaining one of the 'race formerly known as WRAFs' on a billiard table is not permitted before the loyal toast.

2. Should OC Admin Wing enter the bar, all drinking should stop until the most junior aircrew officer present has called the Loyal Challenge: "We hail thee, King Penguin, ruler of the wingless ones. Now buy thy round, thou ba$tard!".

3. Anyone wearing Clockwork Squaddie 95 or other pongo garb does so to indicate that he wishes to be considered invisible. It is therefore not done to engage such a person in conversation. However, to show respect for his request, it is permissible to tread on his feet and/or spill beer upon him without any need for an apology.

4. Any comment made to an officer 2 or more ranks senior to oneself in the Mess bar will be accepted as a sign of spirit. Thus "Oi, me old cock, when is that utter ar$e of an AOC finally going to f*ck off and die" expressed by a Sqn Ldr to Gp Capt will not be held against the Sqn Ldr; rather it will receive benign acceptance. Particularly if the AOC in question is indeed an utter ar$e.

5. Any person wearing a blue uniform shall give way at the bar whenever a member of the 2-winged master race attired in No 14 dress requires another drink. Failure to do so will be taken as an offer to buy another drink for all aircrew present.

[Onan the Clumsy]

...if staying overnight, it is considered polite to air one's matress outside the window first thing in the morning.

Champagne bottles are always opened with a sabre

The alcohol is free and all prices are there for comparison to the outside world.

[teeteringhead]

Entertaining one of the 'race formerly known as WRAFs' on a billiard table is not permitted before the loyal toast.

... but surely BEags , the rule was no talking about the silver or touching the women ........

.... but mayhap I misremember my Stradling .......

[SirToppamHat]

Beags

Get with the programme old chap! We don't have OC Admin(s) any more ... they are now OC Support Wg(s). At least that's the case on my Unit, and on some of the others I've visited recently.

As a direct result of the change, everything is much much better!!

Regards

STH

[2k5]

don't go into a mess for your 1 week a year, and complain to the mess manager and /or PMC that the newly introduced casual dress policy (which was introduced to make the lives of the livers in better) is a disgrace and that the standards of the RAF are slipping and Jackets and ties should be reintroduced without delay.

not the cleverist thing i've seen a VR do :*

[SpotterFC]

A couple of other things not to do (especially if you are Wing Staff fraudulently claiming entitled rates for non-existent Wing meetings/training days/sports fixtures!!! (and thus frequenting the Mess every other bl**dy weekend to play golf on the nearby course))

1. Do not steal the papers after breakfast/abuse the Mess Staff/attempt to lord it over the livers in because you hold plastic acting Sqn Ldr/ Wg Cdr rank.

2. If offered the opportunity to join in a late night take out pizza order in the bar, do not complain loudly that the order hasn't yet been made when the orderee is still checking with other livers in for their requests (money thrown back at you may cause offence).

3. Do not organise a Wing Dining In Night, using the Main Bar then complain about the staff occasionally serving the livers in using the Scruff Bar (being pinned to the wall by a high pressure jet of water from the fire hose built into the wall just outside the bar may cause offence (what idiot designer thought that would be a good idea in an Officers' Mess!))

4. Do not, under any circumstances, ring the OC of a training unit to complain about one of your ex-cadets being chopped, on the grounds that the OC's staff plainly have little concept what an outstanding officer the boy is and obviously no idea about selection and training of personnel - then invite said ex-cadet to his old mess for the above Dining In Night (also partial cause of punishment dished out at 3 above)

5. If you are the Cadet Duty Officer, don't be there in the bar, be with the cadets - Orderley Officers don't generally like being woken at 0200 by RAFP and CIVPOL telling you that there has been a Class A drug party in the cadets accommodation.

6. Oh yeah - if you do don't be surprised at SIB calling on you to explain about the fraudulent claims as soon as the livers-in find out.

I could go on but as an ex-cadet it depressed me at the time and still does...

I know this is all negative, and these people were a disgraceful minority (mostly led by an appalling Fg Off (acting Wg Cdr)) but best to avoid these sorts of schoolboy errors don't you think?

[dinoorin]

Spotter FC
Sounds like you have a great time with some of your local ATC wing staff.
As regards the 'plastic' comment for the ranks. Some of the VR(T) guys are nil mil experience apart from the cadet service, however others have moved to VR(T) from the regs on retirement. I hope you dont use the same comments to certain individuals that I know who now wear sqn ldr tapes when they used to wear AVM etc.

To all other fellow VR(T) out there. Keep up the good work.:ok:

[Funkletrumpet]

At deadlos, many moons ago, a young APO funkletrumpet was asked why he hadn't called a VR(T) Flt Lt Sir. That went down rather well with all the other Fg Off/Lt/Sub Lt at the time too...

[1000hrsdesk]

When I was at Shawbury we were sat in the bar late one night midweek celebrating a test pass of some kind. As gent in civvies approached a qhi at another table and suggested loud enough for all to hear that since it "appeared to be past 7" us STUDENTS still in flying suits should leave the bar. That the QHI was in uniform didn't seem to bother our guest.

The qhi sent him on his way and a pretty heavy session soon developed. After about an hour of twitching in his seat and glowering over ar us, the guy came back over demanding that we kept the noise down as he was having trouble READING HIS BOOK! When we suggested he went into the anteroom for some peace and quiet he read the riot act and demanded our names and that of our boss so we could recieve the rightfully deserved hats on the next morning. When he went on to introduce himself as flt lt blah from the air cadet summer camp he was heckled out of the bar.

The next morning he called work and one my mates answered the phone and transfered him through to the boss. As ops was next door to the boss's office we eavesdropped and the conversation ran something like this...

"i see, they did what?......and what were their names?.......right......uniform after 7?..........noisy?.......yes i'll deal with this.....sorry who are you again?.........Oh F@&K OFF!

[Lost Again..]

SpotterFC long time! Check your PM's.