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View Full Version : heard a rumour regarding ASIC's!


Ultralights
26th Aug 2005, 01:48
already council airfield owners are refusing aircraft from landing at their fields without valid ASIC cards, then offering to issue a card to the pilot wishing to land there for the tiny sum of $240! (esperence council)

Ace on Base
26th Aug 2005, 03:33
Like pilots, are aircraft required to display their asic card at all times?:confused:

How do aircraft achieve this?
Is there an EO that allows this to be done?
where do they have them displayed so that airfield owners can see them prior to them landing?

:uhoh:

Ace

J430
26th Aug 2005, 03:55
How can they refuse you to land, most would be CTAF's or MBZ's and they would not know untill you landed and got out of your plane, then what can they do. Nothing!! You can get back in and fly away again. It is not LAW until 1/1/06.

Why does this stupidity not make it onto ACA instead of other boring meaningless crap on our TV news. Hang on maybe Rove Live would be more appropriate!

J:p

Sunfish
26th Aug 2005, 04:31
I am not aware that anyone can refuse a landing anytime anywhere. All I can see is that there is going to be a monumental F%^& Up at the end of this year unless there is a single Australia wide ASIC.

I had fun at YMIA three months ago with this security rubbish and god help me if I arrive at YBHI on a Sunday morning when this stuff is in force! I simply cannot understand why the new photo ID is not simply taken as evidence of your bona fides.

As for the security locks, outside of YMMB and closer city airports its a joke.

Whats next? ASICS for hang gliders parachutists and trike drivers?

shortandsmelly
26th Aug 2005, 04:53
ASICS for hang gliders parachutists and trike drivers
Trikes are powered. So that means that they're subject to the security checking and photo IDs and stuff... at least that's according to a letter I got from the (then) minister Anderson earlier this year... makes no sense to me...

J430
26th Aug 2005, 05:09
It only took 8 minutes to get this reply...... I am mighty Impressed

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED

Dear Mr J430

As a pilot you can apply for an Australia-wide ASIC (valid for all
Security Controlled Airports) from a Security Controlled airport which
issues ASICs. A complete list of issuing airports is available at
http://www.dotars.gov.au/transsec/aviation/prescribed_airport_operators.aspx

Each issuing body sets the cost for processing an ASIC application.
These costs will not vary greatly between airports. Please contact a Security Controlled Airport listed above for cost details.

Our website (http://www.dotars.gov.au/transsec/atsa/index.aspx) has
further information regarding ASICs which may be of interest to you (particularly the Resources link), however should you require anything further please do not hesitate to contact us.

Regards

XXXXX YYYYYYY
Operations Centre, Office of Transport Security Department of Transport
and Regional Services Australian Government
______________________________________________

Phone: 1300 307 288
Phone: 61 2 6274 8187 (Int'l)
Fax: 61 2 6274 6089
Email: [email protected]


So there you go
Cheers J:ok:

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED

J430,

If for some reason the airports you contact do not wish to issue you
with an AUS-Wide ASIC, there is an alternative source of issue you can
pursue.

DOTARS recently approved an Aviation Industry Participant as an
authorised Issuing Body.

Details are:

Ian Baker
Aviation ID Australia Pty Ltd
Merimbula NSW
Tel: (02) 6495 4211
Fax: (02) 6495 2034
Email: [email protected]

If you need any further clarification in regard to the issue of ASICs,
please do not hesitate to contact me for information.


Regards

XXXX YYYY
Aviation Security Identity
Office of Transport Security
Department of Transport & Regional Services
111 Alinga Street
Canberra ACT 2600

Tel: (02) 6274.6122
Fax: (02) 6274.7097


What great responses. Even if the whole card idea is dumb!

J:ok:

OZBUSDRIVER
26th Aug 2005, 07:30
ASIC is still geared towards airside WORKERS! DoTaRS has no understanding of anything other than an employee at an airport.
Also read an article in the August issue of RAA. They are reporting that DoTaRS are saying that in the future CASA would be an ASIC issuing body.(?????) Wish someone in the halls of doom will finally join the dots and honour one check one card to do both jobs for pilots. Photo ID , wearable issue to act as a suitable ID. AVID=ASIC renewed every 4 years on date of medical. Esperence. gouging pilots eh! Looks like they do not want my business then.

colonel cameron
26th Aug 2005, 10:06
They, the (Councils etc), can only charge the "Prescribed fee";

Prescribed Fees are set out CF Reg 5 ; CF Reg Sch 1 Corp Law.

[calculating the fee] $70 * number of minutes taken divided by 60.

If any Council, or issueing body charges more than $1.16 per minute to process the ASIC is in breech of the Law. If one can go to the Motor Registry with all paperwork intact and be issued with a photo licence in less than 5 minutes, ($5.80), the you are being ripped off and you should wait for Creampuff or someone possibly smarter to apply for a "public Interest and Test Case Scheme" grant to fight it. You have nothing on Mate, go for it.

Watch what happens with the "wharfies" ASIC's. It appears 20+% will get the sack because they have criminal records.

Most likely indeed.

Also take note that your Pilot licence is "Perpetual" and is "triggered" by a medical and now, a security check.

You cannot have your licence removed while some dimwit puts your file to the bottom of the list. You have a licence for life.

Anyone who applies for a photo ID licence MUST have it processed by CASA befor 31st DEcember 2005 so long as your security check is OK.

Security checks are being processed within the week and CASA are only processing Licences on a priority basis of an upgrade and more recently "student". (Typically Months).

Where you fit into this is anyones business, it would seem except yours.

Alien Sex God
26th Aug 2005, 12:47
I reckon an exploding fuel tanker would do more damage than a light aircraft crashing into something but those drivers don't get screened.

compressor stall
26th Aug 2005, 22:05
Was told recently that in Scandinavia, pilots have one card - it's both your licence and ASIC. Smart card type with all the data on the chip.

Maybe that credit card licence wasn't such a bad idea.

colonel cameron
27th Aug 2005, 06:34
I don't want CASA to have "all my data", the ATO have most of that and ADSB will probably bug us wherever we fly.

Credit cards have got more people into more trouble than anything else in this Country, why should we embrace such a concept when it only helps the Bureaucrats keep tabs on us?

Macquarie Bank have done a great job with Sydney Kingsford Smith Airport and the Banks should perhaps have this data to make all our lives complete.

CC.

Animalclub
28th Aug 2005, 07:47
CC

You inferring that they don't keep tabs on us? Dream on.

xinhua2
28th Aug 2005, 08:09
I believe he was making a statement not an inferrence.

Are you happy with more Big brother interferrence in your life?

From what I have gleaned, the ASIC and Photo ID licence security checks are identical, yet one (the ASIC), is valid for 2 years and the licence check valid for 5. If as the Colonel mentioned the licence is perpetual, which I understand it is, why would both security checks be for different periods of validity unless CASA believe pilots are going to become terrorists in the ensueing 3 year period, or they have some idea of corrupting the perpetuity of our licence?

I would like to know more about the "prescribed fee" mentioned. It would seem we are being taken for a ride here with local Government and other "issueing authorities" if they charge more than this prescribed fee.

My security clearance was done in less than a week, still don't have a licence and because I made waves, I believe it is now on the bottom of the CASA pile.

Incompetence, corruption or obstruction are the only words that come to mind.

Shin.

Lasiorhinus
28th Aug 2005, 12:08
Some good news at last - the company mentioned above recently sent this reply to my email enquiry. The way I read it, $193 for the first issue then $143 every two years after that, unless we choose to surrender the card for whatever reason.
They seem pretty much unconcerned where in Australia we live, and whether or not we'll ever be in Merimbula.

----------
Dear [Lasiorhinus]

Our company at Merimbula Airport is an issuing body. All that is required is your contact details and I can sent you an application for you. The cost of an ASIC is $143.00 and we also require a $50.00 bond per card. If the card is not lost or defaced and returned to us if no longer required we refund the $50.00. The card is valid for 2years and then you need to reapply for a new card, security checks are carried out again and the cost of a reissue is only $143.00 provided we get the original card back.

Our new e mail address is [email protected] just let us know if you require a card, you will need a card for visits to airports that have a regular public transport services.

Kind regards,

Ian Baker. Aviation ID Australia Pty.Ltd.

J430
29th Aug 2005, 00:13
More interesting news

Dear J430


Re the advice below, I have just noticed that the web string for
'Security Controlled Airports', was incomplete, it should read:

http://www.dotars.gov.au/transsec/aviation/prescribed_airport_operators.aspx


Also, I understand that as of last Friday, CASA has become an authorised
Issuing Body for ASICs. All pilots should receive formal advice of how
to obtain an ASIC from this agency in the very near future.



Regards

XXXXX YYYYYYY
Aviation Security Identity
Office of Transport Security
Department of Transport & Regional Services
111 Alinga Street
Canberra ACT 2600

Cheers

J:ok:

Angle of Attack
29th Aug 2005, 09:18
Yes it is a complete shambles, anyone who honestly thinks this protects us from terrorism is obviously a bureaucrat or beancounter because these are the only people making money out of this excercise. Unfortunately we are under the power of a conservative fear controlling government, supported by media which have links to the government of course, which WE have continually returned to power. I heard ACA mentioned before, jeez last time I saw that was when I had food poisoning to assist myself to spew out the contamination in my gut. ASIC cards what a joke. no more comment apart from, maybe bend down a bit more to take it from the government beancounters a bit deeper. Until we have a change of government this will continue down the same path it has been following. Well, I better get of my pedestal and buy an ASIC, umm although you can get em in ******* for $5 and I'm sure nobody would know any difference particularly in regional areas! hehe..

Ultralights
29th Aug 2005, 09:44
with so many organisations, authorities etc soon to be handing out ASICS, i will wait till mine turns up in a wheat bix packet!

radman
29th Aug 2005, 11:23
hows this for big brother

pass port was out of date (middle name did not appear on old passport)

applied for ASIC card with birth cert which does have middle name

got new pass port and all of a sudden middle name is now on pass port.:rolleyes:

Lasiorhinus
1st Sep 2005, 03:59
Or perhaps...
when you applied for your new passport (you have to apply, they dont just send you a new one), in the space where it said "given nameS:", did you by any chance happen to write your 'given nameS'??

McGowan
6th Sep 2005, 02:00
Have just driven down from Newcastle to Sydney Airport to lodge my application for an ASIC with SACL(sydney airport corporation limited).
Newcastle Airport refused to issue one as I'm not operating from that airport, nor do they want me to it seems......
Went through the process not unlike the RTA, take a number and wait. Must admitt, didn't take long, 20 minutes.
get everything done and then made the mistake of asking if my photo pilots licence carries any weight with the police back ground checks.
They turned around and told me that CASA will be issuing all pilots ASIC. Should get something in the mail from them soon as to where when and how.
I can't blame any of the people I have delt with when trying to get one of these cards, as everybody is saying, over kill, and basicly useless.
I do wonder what is going to happen come 2006 when they want everybody to have one, I can't see me getting one in the near future, not if it requires any more mucking about and travelling all over the place to get things done.
Anyway, just in bleet.

J430
6th Sep 2005, 03:01
I can see it now, towards the end of the year CASA will be flooded with ASIC applications and will not be able to cope with them all, and the barrage of abuse for not delivering when the cranky pilot is on the phone.

Now this of course is NOT the fault of CASA, so all the CASA bashers out there take note. Itís DOTARS that started this BS in the first place and did not think it through.

If I can make a suggestion (and any CASA staff take this to senior management) and that is, if you have recently been issued with a photo license, you should automatically be sent an ASIC Card. Just spit them out into the post. It would save all the problems and cost far less money to process. After all there is no need to do the checks twice is there.

Anybody not yet upgraded to a photo license still needs to fill in the forms etc but when they are issued the license they get an ASIC as well. The only dumb thing is when it will expire, probably every two years not 5 like the photo license.

Is this common sense or not....?:p

J:ok:

kookabat
6th Sep 2005, 03:31
Someone somewhere suggested a possible partial solution... given that the checks are the same, surely a CASA photo licence could be made the equivalent of a 'grey' ASIC allowing access to the non-RPT areas of the terminal, which is all we as PPLs really need, surely?

Or does that make too much sense?

currawong
8th Sep 2005, 12:03
Don't hold your breath.

Current ASIC holder, applied for new license in May, put on bottom of pile as already security checked.

Worked to top of pile. Need another security check.

Why?

"this ASIC, ahhh, ummmm, doesn't look right"

But it's red and says "AUS" and current and and...

"Sorry"

Next it will be the "our dog ate it" routine, or worse, "who?"

applehead
8th Sep 2005, 22:44
sorry J430 but that won't work. CASA in thier infinite wisdom did not include all the checks that are required for ASICs (such as immigration) in thier photo licence scheme. Therefore, the checks are not transferrable and have to be done again. I think the only concession is that if you had your photo id issued in the last 2 years, the checks required for that (like police check) can be transferred to the ASIC, meaning a lower fee (presumably). ASICS only last for 2 years. DOTARS and CASA seem to work from different planets. The public servants at both organisations are not smart enough to work it out, but the (former) minister has a lot to answer for. Incompetence!

J430
9th Sep 2005, 00:29
Go figure!!!!!

A mate of mine was told he will not be able to fly come 1/1/06 without one!! (DOTARS)

So we both reckon these ASIC's will have magical powers that once hung around your neck they will restore by some telepathic means your flying skills to your brain, so be warned, DO NOT take your dog tag off in flight and give it to the kids in the back seat to play with!!! You will crash with the PIC in the back seat and no controls to rescue you with.
:}


The Lucky Country.... Lucky we get all this entertainment for our tax paying dollar!!

J:ok:

Ultralights
9th Sep 2005, 04:32
just a quick question, will aircrew be forced to take leave, or rostered off, or refuse duty on and after 1/1/06 if their ASIC or new Photo licence hasnt been issued?

Uncommon Sense
9th Sep 2005, 06:12
The stupidity of this, and destruction of aviation business, has even made the US Aviation Press (ironically). See here:

http://www.avweb.com/newswire/11_36b/briefs/190540-1.html


Security Rules May Ground Aussie Air-Tour Operators
By Mary Grady
Newswriter, Editor

If you've visited those exhibits for Australian air safaris at Oshkosh or Sun 'n Fun in recent years and thought that would sure be fun to try some day, your chances of ever having that opportunity are about to grow slimmer. Tour operator GOANA announced last week that they will be shutting down at the end of this year, after 12 years of operation, thanks to new security rules that have made it impossible for them to continue. "It comes as a bitter pill to be forced out of business by legislation," said business owner Mal Shipton. The "Enhanced Aviation Security Package" that was adopted by the Australian government in March will have a negative impact on the very people it is supposed to be protecting, he said. The new rules would require so many more fees and approvals, for which there are often months-long backlogs, that "the new arrangements cannot be managed in a manner consistent with the ability to do business," Shipton said. He's making an effort, though, to turn the tide. "If you would like to express your disappointment, angst, or comment on just what a dumb idea these security measures are," Shipton suggests, send e-mail to the Hon Warren Truss, minister for Transport and Regional Affairs, at the Australian Parliament House [email protected], and cc to GOANA [email protected] "If we had a big response, I feel it may cause the whole security question to be revisited," says Shipton, with true Aussie optimism. For our U.S. readers ... a glimpse into the ground-bound future, perhaps, if we allow "security" to trump freedom.