First solo nav

[R22flyer]

Don't know if this is the right forum as I am new to this and just did my first solo nav. Felt strangely alone so just wondered what others experiences were like.

[Gerhardt]

Congratulations! I recall my first (fixed-wing) cross-country solo not being fun at all. I was just relieved to be home. Of course, with the advent of GPS flying is so much more fun now.

[Martin1234]

When I felt lost I just had a look at my phone and the cell id that was displayed, which usually was the village you were hovering above. :rolleyes:

[g0lfer]

Well done - it's a great feeling isn't it. You will now feel as though you fly much better and you have the freedom to go solo whenever you want. Enjoy.

[bladewashout]

My first solo nav was scattered clouds and more thermals than I'd ever had before. Combined with light weight, the sudden rises and falls in an R22 were quite daunting.

Spent most of the trip trying to remember what I'd forgotten all the time....

BW

[RobboRider]

I can't really remember mine it was so easy. My instructor was newly arrived from out of town and didn't know the area, so picked a few towns on the map and said fly from here to there to there.

I had spent half my life driving round and round that country so I knew where every spot was in relation to others. (albiet from a different angle) I was able to fly around just confirming the numbers I got from the compass and watch etc fitted with where I was. and had been.

I do remember it was mostly just a joy flight. Didn't do me any harm as have flown thousands of miles round Oz on trips now and haven't got lost - .......yet!)

[Martin1234]

kissmysquirrel, you're definately making too many assumptions here. As you might know, cell id is displayed automatically on most phones. If you think that it's stupid to cross-check the map-reading on your first solo nav I don't know what your problem is.

[JAF0]

Do the instructors mind you using the GPS when you start solo navs?

[pommie]

R22Flyer, I had a similar feeling during my first solo nav a couple of weeks ago. I remember thinking "what if the engine really does quit now" - a very different feeling to previous dual and solo flights where I've been taught to almost mechanically continually think "thats where I'm going to land if the engine quits" - it suddenly felt all a lot more real.

I always find it refreshing to see that others have been through similar training experiences.

Pommie

[chopperchav]

Martin1234, I am with kissmysquirrel on this one. If you seriously check your cell phone to work out your position you are mental. I assumed you were taking the p**s.

[Martin1234]

chopperchav, you're absolutely right. I am mental. I'm telling you about my first solo nav where I was happy to reach my intented point. As a very inexperienced pilot I liked the satisfaction when I happen to look at my phone, readily displayed in the cockpit, just to confirm my first successful leg. :D

I'm really sorry that I share my feelings about my first solo nav. I hope that everyone here complaining was highly skilled and experienced pilots the day they were born.

[Gerhardt]

Instructors would prefer that you not use GPS for navigating when you first start. Start with the basics, then add GPS. That way should you lose the GPS you'll have other skills to fall back on.

[chopperchav]

Jammed pedals was first thing that came to my mind. Would be impressive to conclude first solo nav with run on landing or hovering auto.

[Martin1234]

Do I need to point out that I verified my location using the map but also liked the fact that the name appeared on the phone, as a symbol of my successful navigation?

I do, however, agree with the fact that you should get cold feet if someone says that their navigation depends upon cell id. :\

Oh, I do know how cell id works and I do know that the phone was secured. What I now also know is that everyone doesn't seem to understand the meaning of a smiley.

kissmysquirrel, you seem like a very self-righteous instructor!

[Whirlygig]

Please excuse my naivety here but I thought mobile phone signals interfered with navigation equipment. I always have mine switched off in my back pocket.

I was once coming into approach and Tower said, "G-XXXX, have you got your mobile on?" "Negative", "Well somebody has!!"

Secondly, around here, I know that 01603 covers a huge area and really wouldn't help me at all. Oh yeah, I'm somewhere in the vicinity of Norwich. I really would hope that my nav is never THAT bad that I could, for example, mistake Great Yarmouth for Lowestoft (01493 for 01502).

So sorry Martin1234, I'm with KMS and Chav here; you're nuts!! :ok: ;)

Cheers

Whirls

[TheFlyingSquirrel]

KMS you miserable git ! Come on remember how to :O

TFS

[SASless]

Children.....Children.....please! Time outs for all.....get a cell set....use your headset for the phone....much safer.

[Martin1234]

Why does everyone assume I'm in the UK? Is it because "oh, he's nuts and therefore must be one of our compatriots"?

This thread just strengthens Steve76's argument. Grow up everyone.

[Martin1234]

You might want to make sure that the mobile phone doesn't interfere with the radio, if it's needed. An analogue or CDMA phone is much better than a GSM phone on that matter. The VHF radio on-board or a handheld should actually disturb the aircraft more than the phone.

There are many advantages from having a mobile phone on-board while flying. Under normal circumstances and if no legislation is prohibiting it I see no problem using the phone while flying, at least if you fly VFR and can do it safely.

[Martin1234]

That risk can be minimized by using common sense.

Just give me one reason why not to use a phone if it's secured?

[Whirlygig]

Many of us have given you lots of reasons apart from keeping the phone secure in a holder.

So, to recapitulate:-

1. Interference with Radio and Navigation equipment. I would have thought that a radio on would be far more important than having a mobile on. I feel prefectly safe with my mobile phone off in my pocket but I would feel a tad vulnerable if I didn't have a radio.

2. For the same reasons as mobile phone use is banned in the UK whilst driving. It's down to division of attention.

3. It's actually quite a flakey check since most cell site IDs cover quite a large area and therefore, the safety aspects should outweigh the minimal benefit gained of knowing that your somewhere over West Berkshire for example!

Cheers

Whirls

[Gerhardt]

I've always said that we could learn a lot from the Brits. I wish the U.S. would pass a federal law like that.

As for the rest of the topic pertaining to cell phones...any chance we could drop the subject, shake hands and return to talking about flying?

I almost mentioned earlier about my first solo nav. I was on a 3-point cross country and I mentioned the strong winds to the preflight weather briefer who assured me that they would dissipate once I was out a few miles. They only got worse! I've never seen worse turbulence and had almost no control of the Cessna 150. At that point I'd convinced myself that I was already dead so I had nothing to lose by continuing to the closest airport so I could try to set it down. Then the compass fell out. Eventually the wind did calm down and I buzzed a water tower to pinpoint my location, then found the airport to land.

I've never encountered any thing like that since. And after a few hundred hours of cross-country navigating becomes second nature. I always use a handheld GPS (Garmin GPS Pilot III) as primary and use VOR as secondary. I also keep track of checkpoints along the route. Since I'm just now training in helicopters this may change for me but I'm certainly at ease about it.

Anyone else have any horror stories?

[Martin1234]

1. Covered in my last post. Don't have the phone on when you need the radio if disturbance occurs.

2. Using the radio on-board requires attention as well.

3. Who said cell-id was the reason?! It's quite good to be able to call airfields/LZ's that don't moniter the radio or is out of reach or checking weather, or just being able to notify someone waiting when you're late.

This discussion is ridiculous. It's not like I'm alone in the air using a phone and nobody forces KMS & Co to use one either.

[R22flyer]

I am reading with interest about this cell phone debate. Being relatively new to flying and having an old (3+ years) phone how can you tell where you are with it? (that is if you want to take the risk of having it on and acceptable).

By the way any other first solo nav experiences - that was the start of this thread!

[Martin1234]

I live in Sweden. It was a while ago I went solo, otherwise you could have had a chat with my instructor if that would have made you happy.

If you fly in the middle of nowhere in uncontrolled airspace and someone at the destination is expecting you, I'm glad if I can avoid an unnecessary alert.

When I did fly between two Kingdoms the arriving ATS failed to pass on that I closed my flight plan, or there was a delay. The rescue co-ordination centre was informed that I didn't close the flight plan. They did, however, reach me on the cell phone and didn't have to start looking.

There's a risk of using any form of electric devices on-board, especially radio transmitters. You just have to weigh the pros and cons. The cons can't be that great since many operators offer mobile phone service on-board to passengers.

[Dis-Mystery of Lift]

Hi all,
Cells phones are great!Have one in all choppers(Secured)Dont mind letting Pax talk on cellphones when flying as it dosent seem to make my eyes go blurry(Main Nav aid in VFR) Great to update base on ETA's,ETD's.If they are secured who cares!!!If they are not your a ****!!!

Cheers

[bwm85]

IMHO i don't find there to be anything wrong with carrying a cell phone in an aircraft whilst flying. To an extent i do agree with KissMySquirrel with regards to the phone being a distraction which will draw you attention away from more important things. However, then again scrolling through the multitude of menus that feature on most modern gps' isn't going to help you see and be aware of what is going on outside the cockpit either.

Aviation is an industry where checking and double checking is encouraged; so for Martin1234 to use other means to cross check his position against his traditional navigation material, to me showed innitiative that should be encouraged. It would be a different story if he were have to called up his mate at the next waypoint to determine whether he could see if he was hovering over the right town.

Yes there is a risk the phone could fall into the pedal box and jam them, but then again, there is also a risk that the pen/pencil he writes on his map with could fall in the same spot with the same results.

As with phones in cars, if a phone in an aircraft is used in the correct manner, that is, in a cradle or linked into a hands free system or the like at the extreme end of the spectrum it can be the difference between spending a night injured beside a wrecked aircraft or waiting 20 minutes before you hear and EMS bird on site to winch you to safety.

It also means if you were to have a radio failure it gives you that extra line of communication, that can eleviate some of the panic some panic that may occur to an inexperienced flyer if this situation were to occur.

[offshoreigor]

R22Flyer

The first Solo Nav on Helos (BH06 III) went very uneventful for me. Made my check points on time and time over target was +/- 5 seconds. I never felt lonely as the rotors were my guide.

Now if you ask me about my first fixed wing Nav Solo, thats entirely different! 4 miles a minute at 250 feet! over checkpoint 1,2,3,4,5 ok then I get a fellow stud who wants to play chicken!!!!!Flying the same NavRoute from the other end! That was fun.....I think I climbed to FL280 to avoid!


:eek: OffshoreIgor :eek:

[Power Up]

Compared to many on this forum, I am still very inexperienced. But here is my 2p worth.
I was always told to take a mobile phone with me - keep it switched off, but available if had to force land (not before).
Martiin, I am concerned, the radio is at your fingertips, the mobile involves a bit of fiddling and manipulation, IMHO, way too much diversion time to be considered safe.

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or just being able to notify someone waiting when you're late.
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Would I not be right in saying, use the radio if it is to do with the flight. Wait until you are on the ground if it is personal.

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The rescue co-ordination centre was informed that didn't close the flight plan. They did, however, reach me on the cell phone and didn't have to start looking.
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A lesson learned to close flight plans, and yes great they contacted you opn the mobile, I'm guessing you were on the ground at this time?

[BigMike]

Mobile phones are becoming a pretty common feature in helicopters used in commercial ops in Oz and NZ. Provided they are secured in a cradle with the headset interface they are no problem at all, and no more of a distraction than having another radio. They are an excellent means of secure communication with company and certainly useful incase of a forced landing. While working in the Outback we also had an approvel to use a handheld Sat-phone instead of HF for remote ops.

[offshoreigor]

Everyone

It's nice to know that everyone agrees that cells are great, however, I believe the topic was "first solo".

So keeping that in mind, can we get back on topic?

Cheers,

:eek: OffshoreIgor :eek: