Photo licences

[chief wiggum]

Was flicking through the "Flight Safety Australia" magazine which appeared in my letter box this afternoon, when i noticed on page 65, and I quote
" Pilots who want to fly after December 31, 2005, you need to apply soon for your photo ID.
All flight crew and special pilot licenc holders will be required to carry new photo identification licences when flying after December 31, 2005
Photo licences have been introduced to provide a more secure means of identifying Australian Flight crew, in line with the licensing requirements of other transport sectors .... "

I have a few questions for those "in charge".
1/ I have never ever had my licence checked in any security capacity, so how does this measure make me more secure?
2/ I have an ASIC card, therfore I have passed ALL security checks, AND I have to pass through security at major airports prior to boarding my flight, yet my licence is not checked here, and for the record, neither is my ASIC card. How does a photo licence make me more secure ?
3/Why is it that these "KNEE JERK" reactions by the Federal government that end up costing ME more money, and time, are a response to an event that happened 4 years ago, yet these same politicians continue to say that "Terrorism will not change the Australian way of life" ?
4/ Why is it that my shoes are of such interest to these "security professionals" at Syd Apt, yet the ferals may walk through with dog chains attached to their jeans/around their necks, studded belts and 20kg of hand luggage?
5/ why is it that a friend of mine was asked to remove his cap when going through security, but turban wearers and women who wear veils are exempt from this requirement ?

I will stop this vitriole now, however am interested to hear how the government can charge me to replace a licence which THEY issued, which is "PERPETUALLY VALID" ? (I believe that this point was raised by someone before on a different, but similar thread)

[J430]

Simple answer, Left Hand has never met the Right Hand, so no hope of either knowing what is goin on....

Even if you were a terrorist with a ultralight, you would get your photo licence before telling anyone about your evil intentions down the track. Its a WOFTAM and we all have to live with it!

J430:ok:

[rmcdonal]

Still waiting for mine. It's been about 5 months. I gave them a call and they told me that student pilots and ATPL are to get there's first. But the nice man at CASA did confirm that mine was still sitting on his desk and hadn't been lost. What was the point in having a recent photo when by the time I get it back it would be old? :} :}

BTW: I think this topic has been done, and lots of people got realy angry about it.

[Pharcarnell]

Lots of people are still angry.
I've been waiting for mine since Feb now. When Dec 31 arrives and there's no licence I will be investigating sueing CASA for restriction of trade if I am not allowed to fly.

I wonder if they care?

[100% Ng]

I've had mine for about 6 weeks now. It took about 2 months. Its a pretty low class photo ID. Looks like it has been made by some school kid on there home computer. The CASA deligate that did mine even forgot to stamp the new licence. I had to ring them to ensure this was legit.

[kookabat]

Nine weeks, four phone calls and two emails. Then they issued a student licence - ok, except I was waiting for a PPL at the time.

At least they don't charge for the privilege! (yet)

[Paint The Sky Pink!]

I have just spent the whole day working on this very subject.

Before I start, this applies to airports only with an RPT service. My company employees about 9 nine pilots, we work off our own private strips, however we need to go to an airport with an RPT service for maintenance.

After many calls today to Canberra CASA office (Photo ID department were swamped with calls all day) and our district CASA official and the local flying instructor, this is basically what info I have obtained...............

1) There is about a 2 month waiting list currently (according to CASA, 6 months is you ask others)
2) If you are caught at an airport with an RPT service and no photo ID, you will be in BIG trouble, what kind of big trouble yet, no one knows.
3) There will random checks in airports across the country, especially in small country airports where they think no one will check!
4) Pilots will be made 'an example of' when caught without their photo ID
5) This is the first step to obtaining the ASIC card, which no one knows which department will be administrating yet!
6) Most importantly, apply now as no charges have been issued for the application process, they will get around to doing this eventually, however at the moment, it is technically 'free'.

Most importantly, what I discovered today was that no one seemed to know what was REALLY going on. There was a lot of 'I'm not sure about that yet" or "I can't answer that yet".

I really wanted to know who what & how this will be policed and what the penalties will be if you don't have the ID. No one knew.

Sounds like CASA have got a real mess on their hands.

Cheers,

PTSP!

[pall]

I have my photo licence now. Took 8 weeks.

But what about my passengers who accompany me into a ATPL or regional airport? Will they be able to accompany me off the airfield after our privatre flight?

[Capt Claret]

All brought to you by DOTARS. Department of Turkeys Ansernines and Real Stupidity! :mad: :yuk: :mad:

[Paint The Sky Pink!]

Aren't the Federal Police part of this mess too...................????

Well, there you go, CASA, DOTARS & the Feds............. What else can I say:{ :sad:

Cheers,

PTSP!

[kookabat]

There is about a 2 month waiting list currently

So the effective date to get your applications in is the end of October, if you're to have your photo licence in time... :*

[Ultralights]

6 months and still waiting! yet my new RAA certificate arrived in 3 days!

[Paint The Sky Pink!]

Because the 'Photo ID' dept. at CASA are over run by phone calls and it is impossible to get through.................... can anyone answer me the following?

If you are 'busted' at an airport in January 2006 without you photo ID, but your application is still in CASA and has been there for 6 months, what happens?

Why is this process taking so long?

Anyone 'in the know' care to respond?

Cheers,

PTSP

[Captain Sand Dune]

No photo license by 01JAN06? Sounds like CO/CFI/CASA problem! Can't captain an aircraft illegally now, can !?;)
I'l be at home when you sort it!:}

[N5528P]

@ chief wiggum

The list of stupid and useless measuers is endless:

Last week here in Austria the newspaper bashed the security company at Vienns's Airport (VIE / LOWW) because police officers in plain clothing were able to smuggle a PLASTI gun ans a can of pepper spray (not sure what the proper translation is - the spray carried to spray it in the eyes of attackers), also contained in a plastic bottle.

How the hell should security find that with sending EVERYONE through x-ray or checking your body openings?

Or di I have to mention the milion forms and interviews produced over the decades before entering the US? In 2001 (bevore 9/11) I was asked if I want to change the society in the US - a thing every honest terrorist would surely admit. :confused:

About four weeks ago, a colleague of mine entered the US from Canada and was asked if he is a member of the SS - the lady is not even 30 yet :\

Regards, Bernhard

[Ultralights]

so is it assumed that on 01 jan 06 will not be a good time to fly, as a LOT of aircraft will be grounded as a good percentage of their flight crew wont have valid photo licences yet ??

[chief wiggum]

Ultralights - depends how you look at it. It might be a good time to fly as there MAY not be many a/c about as most pilots probably WONT have their licences back and mAY not fly.

On the other side of the coin, if people DO fly after 31dec05 without a new photo licence, it will be really really really unsafe! Dotars says this will be the case, so it MUST be true!

On a side note. I had to go through security today, and witnesseda bloke have to take his baseball cap off. I was REALLY tempted to go and buy a tea towel or turban, and test whether I would also have to remove my headpiece!

Question : are we to be charged for these "secure licences? "

[currawong]

Where are your manners people.

N5528P WELCOME DOWNUNDER!

I too am waiting for this new license, since the end of May.

Submitted with a current ASIC, to boot.

[Wheeler]

I got mine within about 3 weeks - Could not speak more highly of the polite young lady at CASA BK who helped me with the form. - Maybe its ASIO causing the bottleneck. Just imagine what a PITA it would be to do all those security checks - and how much job satisfaction there would be if you actuallyf ound someone who failed the check. I wonder how many they have found who dont qualify. My guess would be a big fat zero!

[jandakotpilot]

I put my application in for my upgraded CPL in April. I rang CASA 2 weeks ago asking where it was. She said I could expect it towards the end of the year!

Everything is a knee jerk reaction. If the terrorists really wanted to blow something up they would find a new way succeed. We are only guarding against what they have already tried.

Personally the throttle lock is a sham!
Bin Laden would be past a set of boltcutters by now! That is if he got past my photo licence first!

[rotaryman]

Seems to me that the media need to get a hold of this story!!:E

Then you might! i say! Might see funds directed towards CASA so they are able to have the manpower to provide the Damm Service.

Why not simply ask all Pilots whilst engaged in an Operation that requires you to carry your Lic? that you are also required to carry some form of Photo I.D

Most people Pilots have at least a passport or Photo Drivers Lic!!
Or ASIC!!!!

Beauracratic Bull **** at its Best!!

:mad: :mad: :}

[Time Bomb Ted]

Oh Oh!

I got my photo licence yesterday in the mail.

Only to Roger's crowd in Licensing since March to get it to me. Luckily I didn't have to pay for it or else I'd have sue'd. 6 months to the day.

TBT

[J430]

I got in early and had my photo lic back in a few weeks, lovely lady at CASA in Brisbane.

However the bloody ASIC BS is the next problem. Who where and how much will they be. I am still not completely sure how this is going to work.

If common sense prevailed, your CASA lic would be all you needed, and if CASA printed a dog tag version (sumarised) of it as well as the full blown thing in your bag the problem would be solved for pilots.

As for ground crew and associated staff their local airport authority issued tag would do.......How simple it could all be....

Has anybody mentioned an idea like this tothe minister?

J:ok:

[timoc1]

Just read through the thread and I have a question... I am based up in regional NSW and fly into Sydney, Brisbane, Gold Coast etc on a regular basis (not RPT). The airport that I am based at is supposed to issue ASIC cards but they don’t have the means to do it and wont for another 10 years... So what should I do? Should I try to get an ASIC through Sydney or Brisbane? I hear AOPA will be issuing them in the next months... In any case it is rather annoying since DOTARS and the local airport operator (shire) are all useless when it comes to asking questions about what approach I should take. If someone has some advice for me I would appreciate it. I also just mailed off the CASA photo license form today.

PM if you have some advice for me... Tx

t1
:ugh:

[J430]

Mate Nobody knows......

I have asked and so far nobody really knows the answer.

I am going to e-mail DOTARS and ask now. By the time I get a reply this thread will have fallen into the bit bucket of the internet and we'll all have forgotten. But if by sheer chance I get a prompt reply I will post it here for all to see.

:confused: J

[J430]

It only took 8 minutes to get this reply...... I am mighty Impressed

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED

Dear Mr J430

As a pilot you can apply for an Australia-wide ASIC (valid for all
Security Controlled Airports) from a Security Controlled airport which
issues ASICs. A complete list of issuing airports is available at
http://www.dotars.gov.au/transsec/aviation/prescribed_airport_operators.aspx

Each issuing body sets the cost for processing an ASIC application.
These costs will not vary greatly between airports. Please contact a Security Controlled Airport listed above for cost details.

Our website (http://www.dotars.gov.au/transsec/atsa/index.aspx) has
further information regarding ASICs which may be of interest to you (particularly the Resources link), however should you require anything further please do not hesitate to contact us.

Regards

XXXXX YYYYYYY
Operations Centre, Office of Transport Security Department of Transport
and Regional Services Australian Government
______________________________________________

Phone: 1300 307 288
Phone: 61 2 6274 8187 (Int'l)
Fax: 61 2 6274 6089
Email: [email protected]


So there you go
Cheers J:ok:

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED

J430,

If for some reason the airports you contact do not wish to issue you
with an AUS-Wide ASIC, there is an alternative source of issue you can
pursue.

DOTARS recently approved an Aviation Industry Participant as an
authorised Issuing Body.

Details are:

Ian Baker
Aviation ID Australia Pty Ltd
Merimbula NSW
Tel: (02) 6495 4211
Fax: (02) 6495 2034
Email: [email protected]

If you need any further clarification in regard to the issue of ASICs,
please do not hesitate to contact me for information.


Regards

XXXX YYYY
Aviation Security Identity
Office of Transport Security
Department of Transport & Regional Services
111 Alinga Street
Canberra ACT 2600

Tel: (02) 6274.6122
Fax: (02) 6274.7097


What great responses. Even if the whole card idea is dumb!

J:ok:

[neilia]

My student licence was issued as a photo licence back in March, but due to some quirk of legislation, it appears I have to go through the whole pain of getting a *different* photo ID done for my PPL upgrade as I missed some arbitrary cutoff date first time around.

So while they're busy making sure I don't blow anyone up maliciously, by the time my PPL arrives I'm going to be more of a danger because I'll have forgotten how to fly...

[J430]

More interesting news

Dear J430


Re the advice below, I have just noticed that the web string for
'Security Controlled Airports', was incomplete, it should read:

http://www.dotars.gov.au/transsec/aviation/prescribed_airport_operators.aspx


Also, I understand that as of last Friday, CASA has become an authorised
Issuing Body for ASICs. All pilots should receive formal advice of how
to obtain an ASIC from this agency in the very near future.



Regards

XXXXX YYYYYYY
Aviation Security Identity
Office of Transport Security
Department of Transport & Regional Services
111 Alinga Street
Canberra ACT 2600

Cheers

J:ok:

[4SPOOLED]

does this mean the photo id i was issued with in jan is no longer valid and i need another photo flight crew id?

heck, i also heard CASA wont be taking any new applications in the month of September so they can catch up.....

Seem like they have a huge bottleneck in there somewhere.

I suggest if any CASA employees are PPruning, get back to work!!

[currawong]

The instructions regarding ASIC card holders having a current security check is a crock.

Chased up license today, to be told my ASIC could not be used in this process as it "did not look right". ( Red, Aus etc.)

For once, I am lost for words....

[Pinky the pilot]

Reading all the previous posts should make it abundantly clear that the 'authorities'/government/whatever have totally lost the plot!
The phraes 'running around like headless chooks' comes to mind!:yuk:
The bottom line is 'though;
The terrorists have already won.:mad: :mad: :mad:
Where is a true leader when you really need him? (Or her)

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[inxs]

C/Wiggam
It costs you nothing for the new Photo ID - what are you whinging about ??

4-SPOOLED

It's not all September - its 2 weeks only, and its not a backlog, its to change-over to a new licensing software system.
Got it ? Good.

[bushy]

We had photo licences decades ago. They changed them.

[Deaf]

Bushy - The people who have them have also changed in the decades.

[bushy]

Looks like they are not as smart as they used to be. What's all the fuss about?