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Buster Hyman
21st Aug 2005, 13:17
Mate of mine just passed up an opportunity to become CEO of a local transport company (Non aviation) due to a lack of authority. It seems he was to be responsible for outcomes, but when it came to authority for implementing necessary changes, he didn't have it! That belonged to the GM! In a nutshell, his salary was affected by company performance, but he couldn't implement any changes he deemed necessary as the GM ran the show! Go figure!

In Oz, there's a dearth of quality managers about & companies are going to the wall as a result. I didn't see the importance of quality leadership until the last years of Ansett where there was no effective leadership. The company ran on momentum & the efforts of some quality staff but, without clear direction...well, the rest is history. :(

What is wrong with "industry", where good people wont have a go at a CEO role? Has the dilution of authority from this important role meant that the cream is refusing to rise to the top?

Onan the Clumsy
21st Aug 2005, 13:24
In Oz, there's a dearth of quality managers about Ha ha ha ha. Most people I've encountered in that position were absolute useless wankers. :{

rustle
21st Aug 2005, 14:16
Isn't that what a dearth is? A shortage? :confused:

Ergo the posts are filled by those less capable.

Binoculars
21st Aug 2005, 14:45
It's easy to get confused with company definitions; the MD in one country is the CEO in another. The President often fills a vaguely defined gap in the hierarchy.

I'm not in business and never have been, but from an investor's point of view, if I thought the CEO, who is appointed by the board of directors to run the company and make all executive decisions, had the extra hurdle of a GM between him and the Chairman of the board, it's a company I'd be avoiding. But I'm open to correction from those more in the know.

Kaptin M
21st Aug 2005, 14:52
Why do so many of the rank (and file) think these head jobs are filled by d!ckheads?

DeBurcs
21st Aug 2005, 15:17
Why do so many of the rank (and file) think these head jobs are filled by d!ckheads?Tall Poppy Syndrome.

Binoculars
21st Aug 2005, 15:22
Kaptin, that's a very good question. I try to be balanced, so I'll say that there is a vast gulf between coalface workers and management. Quite often, management have been coalface workers, but rarely have the coalface been managers.

That said, there is an unfortunate tendency (at least in my profession) for management positions to be filled by those who couldn't cut it in the field. Those who have served their time with honour tend to be treated with respect. Those who have bypassed the coalface to go straight into management are not so well received.

And I make this comment knowing that those who may read Pprune know who is whom. Respect is not something that can be demanded, it must be earned.

acbus1
21st Aug 2005, 16:22
Who's Poppy Syndrome and why are you blaming her?

.....and what's her height got to do with it?

Lon More
21st Aug 2005, 17:50
Acbus I think most Antipodeans have been there (http://www.convictcreations.com/culture/poppy.htm) :=

Blacksheep
22nd Aug 2005, 02:16
....the cream is refusing to rise to the top? I'm intrigued by the bizarre idea that CEOs may be the cream that rises to the top.

Over here in Borneo, our experience is that rotten stuff floats just as well as cream.

acbus1
22nd Aug 2005, 06:57
The phrase you're looking for is "Sh!t floats".

And boy, is that the truth, with a few (very few) exceptions.

Blacksheep
22nd Aug 2005, 09:13
More crudely put than I prefer, but yes, you have the 'essence' of our opinion...

Thank goodness the smell has gone away. I do hope we get some of that legendary cream this time... :hmm:

surely not
22nd Aug 2005, 14:56
I think a major problem is all the 'knowledgeable' staff who sit back and pontificate on 'how things should be done' whilst being almost completely unaware of the whole picture that needs to be considered prior to a decision being taken. Plus they never apply for the next position up the food chain because 'they can't afford to' or 'they don't want the responsibility'.

Sure there are poor managers in much the same way that there are some absolute stinkers in the workforce. I think a major problem is that quite often a manager is promoted into a position but given absolutely nil training on the skills they need to be aware of i.e. budget making, budget reporting, budget justification, legal responsibilities and most importantly the art of PLANNING.

Aviation is littered with people in top positions who are great at firefighting operational problems but poor at planning ahead to avoid them happening in the first place. It is also full of know alls who could 'run the company better with one hand tied behind their back' yet who are incapable of taking a decision themselves.

Overall though, my pet dislike is the manager who once promoted never gets back down to the shop floor to talk with their staff.

Capt.KAOS
22nd Aug 2005, 15:06
Lotsa managers have long brown arms...

surely not
22nd Aug 2005, 15:11
Indeed they do Kaos, for 2 reasons........................ some because they didn't get where they are by being the right people for the job, but by excessive toadying; others because of the high amount of sh!t that falls upon them from above :D

Buster Hyman
22nd Aug 2005, 22:54
surely not. I was able to see the end of one era at Ansett, when Maint. Base management was sourced purely from the cream of the shop floor. What these guys didn't know about maintenance wasn't worth knowing.

At the end though, one of the Ops centre managers was from a department store! Probably a good manager, but when one is not familiar with the core business, the lead time to competency can be alarming.

And I agree, we had a chap that constantly moaned about management and was as usefull as tits on a bull. However, good management would have sorted his attitude years earlier.

tart1
22nd Aug 2005, 23:12
'Head Jobs'??

I thought you were talking about frontal lobotomies (or similar)!! :ooh: :ooh:

Biggles Flies Undone
22nd Aug 2005, 23:23
Don't worry tart1 - I thought they were talking about something far naughtier!

tart1
22nd Aug 2005, 23:25
Well Biggles I wouldn't know anything of that sort of thing!! :D

Buster Hyman
23rd Aug 2005, 03:13
Sorry about that, but I was following Kaptin M's Inspiring Thread Title guide!:eek:

tinpis
23rd Aug 2005, 06:36
Reminds me...its tins anniversary. :hmm:

Krystal n chips
23rd Aug 2005, 08:31
Ineptitude, indifference, incompetence and sycophancy were deemed to be core skills for any management position in one UK airline I can think of :E ----

bear11
23rd Aug 2005, 10:46
Never heard of the Peter principle?

- in a hierarchically structured administration, people tend to be promoted up to their "level of incompetence"

tart1
23rd Aug 2005, 22:31
Head Jobs??

Are they a bit like hand jobs?? Blow jobs??

Sorry .......... I'm off to bed now anyway. :mad: