AF excursion in Mexico's Intl. Airport

[aloneincommand]

I was told that an Air France 777 taxied into an active rwy in Mexico's International Airport, while a cargo plane was landing on the same rwy, forcing the last one to run out of the runway to avoid a crash.
Has anyone heard anything about this? :confused:

[BOEINGBOY1]

if it's true - it wouldn't be the french's fault, oh no,no,no,no

[Xenia]

Maybe the cargo A/C was loaded with Tequila :D :D
Frenchs to blame??
JAMAIS!!!! ;)

[ 19 October 2001: Message edited by: Xenia ]

[Konkordski]

DHL DC-8 aborts at high speed to miss 777 at Mexico City
David Morrow (27Sep01, 12:00 GMT, 136 words)


Investigators are examining an incident at Mexico City International Airport in which a DHL Airways McDonnell Douglas DC-8-70 freighter aborted take-off at around 100kt (185km/hr) to avoid a taxying Boeing 777 and slewed off the side of the runway.

Mexican transport ministry officials have reportedly said that the second aircraft involved in the 25 September incident was a Paris-bound Air France Boeing 777 which was crossing the runway at the time. The incident reportedly took place at around 21:20.

The US FAA initial report on the incident says the DC-8, bound for DHL’s Cincinnati hub, aborted take-off at 100kt and suffered damage to its underside and the thrust-reversers on its CFM International CFM56 engines after leaving the runway. The aircraft, a 33-year old Series 70 model, is registered N806DH and owned outright by the cargo carrier.


Source: Air Transport Intelligence news

[Airbubba]

I'm sure Air France will claim the mishap occured because the controllers were speaking English, not French...

[BOEINGBOY1]

airbubba. "nice one"

[Xenia]

Last week was the turn of the italians for the "Xenophobics" of the week...It looks like Frenchs are following boeingboy.... Just smile and be happy cherie :D

[wallabie]

I would like to welcome all our xenophobic moron listeners to " Bashing of the week ".
The french are on special on the blackboard menu, I strongly recommend it as it's been a while since some serious french bashing took place on this site. 5 weeks maybe, a life time on Prune.

By the way, it did happen and let me tell you that compagny comments about it are far from being complacent for the crew and as to consequences I won't say more on this because it is actually none of your bloody business since you neither work for AF or belong to any of the investigating bodies dealing with this.

I will also spare you the long lists of American aircrafts that were flown into the ground by their very drivers. And speaking of runway incursions, if memory serves me right, LAX has seen a long list of distinguished airlines taxiing into active runways when they shouldn't have. Last but not least a 737 landing on a metro commuter.
As to the show we get to see from other airlines ( US ) in CDG, that has to be one of the most confusing airports I have been given to see, you could write a book. I stop and patiently wait until they finally get a grip and resume taxiing. Do I need to continue ????? I think not. The sun is shining and Tamarama beach beckons.

I nevertheless admire your determination in believing you belong to the superior race of flawless airmen, may you become OLD flawless airmen.

[Sick]

did that touch a raw nerve there wallabie...good.

And I suppose you think that the yankee-doodles should taxi around the CDG maze like a Parisian cab driver, with all sorts of madcap instructions being given in two languages, and thus half a picture of what the hell is going on?

The aerial Francophones deserve some heat, and outlawing of this arrogant behavior is long overdue - I'd like to see Air France pilots threaten strike over this again at the moment.

[ 20 October 2001: Message edited by: Sick ]

[Airbubba]

Yep, CDG is a pluperfect mess. It must have been designed by some "artiste". The taxiways are remniscent of Dali on a bad day and the terminal runs streams of deplaning pax right across lines of pax waiting to be screened. Lord help you if you get lost, cause the French sure won't <g>...

[ 20 October 2001: Message edited by: Airbubba ]

[aloneincommand]

Thank you very much for the information Konkorski, I was just looking for the technical details and never expected to give off sparks on xenophobic sentiments. What is concerning is the fact that if CDG is difficult, then the AF guys should not have any problem in MEX with only two paralel runways, it will be interesting to know what really happened.

[wallabie]

"The aerial Francophones deserve some heat, and outlawing of this arrogant behavior is long overdue - I'd like to see Air France pilots threaten strike over this again at the moment. "

I'm afraid you'll have to wait until you eat the dafodills by the root my friend.
Touched a nerve ? Well yes and no. I've been on a lot of flight decks in my working life and nothing I saw made me ashamed of what I do every day.
So thanks for hating our guts, first I don't give a flying fart about it, second you're just like the rest of us which will be, by the sound of it, a harsh wake up call. Live with it and go to Mars.
By the way, I had a lovely day at the beach.

Still didn't hear anything about LAX, but that must be my hearing. See ya punk !!

[recceguy]

Yes, last week it was the turn of the italians (Milano, also purser from AE at FCO)
Now it could be the turn of the french for some days.
Yes, when a german and swedish aircraft collide, it's obviously the fault of the italians ATC and airports.
Now all of you, given your sort of nationality-based seniority-rule in case of mishaps, what immediate judgment would you exert, in case of, say:
french Airbus and nigerian-registered british flown DC8 having a near-miss at an italian airport ?

[DouglasDigby]

Bit off thread, aren't we guys (and/or girls - don't want to add sexist overtones to the existing xenophobic ones!).

Not enough information available to pin any blame on anyone yet. For example, did the DC8 have take-off clearance? Had ATC cleared the 777 to cross? Had the correct runway designator been used? Etc, etc. I'm not keen on CDG (or LAX!) for many reasons, but, let's get some more facts for this incident.

[Ignition Override]

Wallabie: It might be best to not overreact to comments on Pprune. People often jump to conclusions just after an incident or accident. By the way, I've never flown into your excellent country except as a passenger, and we always enjoyed our vacations there.

As for the disaster at LAX, the tower controller forgot that the Metroliner was still on the runway, which was cleared to taxi "into position and hold", and the USAir 737 crew could not see the Metroliner with the setting sun in their faces.

How many pilots (PIC) reading this never turn on extra lights (i.e nacelle or ground floods) in low visibility or at night when crossing a runway, or taxiing "into position to hold" on a runway? If it is not part of your standard procedures, are you forbidden to flip some extra switches on then back off again? Many Captains seem to avoid extra illumination, so to speak, despite being on or taxiing through the most dangerous areas of an airport.

Why not?

Off the topic: Vive le Concorde/long live the Concorde!

[411A]

Quite right about the lights, Ignition Override, have often wondered why some wish to remain "in the dark" so to speak. And, regarding the LAX accident, there had been MANY complaints about the concerned tower controller, but "affirmative action" kept her on the job.

And just what is wrong with CDG? I have been operating into there for a long time (since 1981) and find that many--- do not listen to taxi instructions and don't take the time to actually look at and understand the taxiway chart. It's not rocket science, guys.

[ 21 October 2001: Message edited by: 411A ]

[b.w.k]

Back to the thread, I would like to congratulate the DHL pilot – I hope he reads this – for reacting so well to the conflict. He undoubtedly saved many lives without much thought of his own.

[Saab 2000 Driver]

Excuses me : who´s xenophobic here ? The French for insisting to speak their own language when foreigners are flying in their airspace, or pilots who like to kept in the closed loop and do not speak French ?!?!?

It is not that I do not trust ATC, but everybody can make a mistake and without a closed loop there is no way for me to detect that.

As for the people who think that we are just bashing some country for the sake of just bashing them; they probably have not flown too much in the countries mentioned.

If you don´t believe me, come and fly out of Basel (French ATC) for a week or so.

Uhhh… Crossair 123….uhhhhh……..stand by….I yuhhhhhh….cull yu bick

Uhhhhh…..roger Crossair 123…..uhhhhh….say agen ? :D

PLEASE, when will these people ever learn ?!? :mad:

As for AF, you would expect that the pilot flying long haul would speak better English ! I frequently heard AF stumble across frequencies in KMIA and, believe me, it was not a pretty sound...

[wallabie]

"Excuses me : who´s xenophobic here ? The French for insisting to speak their own language when foreigners are flying in their airspace, or pilots who like to kept in the closed loop and do not speak French ?!?!?"

Saab200 !!! we're talking about something that happened in MEXICO here !! You know, just a tat west of Basel. So get your head out of the cow's rear end and pay attention.


Linking xenopheobia with the use of a language on an airport can only reflect the immensity of your stupidity, but then you have so many things on your mind these days integrating SW
pilots and all that. That doesn't leave you too much RAM space to THINK. I sure am happy not to be one of them to have to put up with clowns like you.

To judge people because they belong to one culture or another has been tried many many times in history and despots have never been short of ignorant idiots like you, walking in brown shirts to do their dirty jobs. You may be looking ok from the outside, although I wouldn't bet my body surfboard on it, but this all too tragically familiar stench surfaces when you open your mouth.
Ignition overide, yes I clearly react in the most ( planned ) volatile way. I cannot obide stupidity even less when associated with sheer ignorance and meanness. When a crossair flight goes down because its crew isn't used to western avionic and yaws the wrong way, what do we read ???? nauseating stuffs like " I feel for the families, rest in peace ......." and I 'll stop there.
When WE LOOSE A Concorde in the circumstances you know, ya know, **** , non WASP, on the latin side of the world, God forbids, we hear anything from " they can't fly, speak or even have doubtfull hygienic habits and their women have hair under their armpitts".
As long as we see and hear people like you Saab 2000, the world, in my view, is a very unsafe place, even more around the Swiss side of Basel. By the way, are you Swiss ? If yes, you are a digrace to your people.

Was that plain enough english for you mate ??

[ 21 October 2001: Message edited by: wallabie ]

[Ignition Override]

Hi Wallabie-my comments about the Concorde were to express hope that it will be flying again very soon on revenue flights. We departed CDG (my young son's first trip outside the US) just a few weeks before the nightmarish tragedy.

This is a sincere suggestion to everyone: if pilots (and others) don't learn to relax and stay detached from almost everything, they can later develop high blood pressure and fail a flight physical exam. Almost all of us need to remember this. Taking everything personally only creates frustration. Almost nobody in "Ppruneland" knows us personally, anyway. We are the invisible man (or woman).

Let's do what we can to keep flying safe; for example, if I need to learn a bit of Italian or understand ein bissl schwabisch in order to fly safer, then ok.

[wallabie]

The thing Ignition is that those dumb bells who started this thread are not in the least interested in what happened, it's to whom it happened that matters. Follow moi ?
I've seen this sooooooooooooooooo many times on Prune and that scares me s....t to think that some one the authors of the above posts might actually be at the helm when I go on my holiday and that is not a happy prospect.I should be happy as a clam relaxing sipping my bloody Mary, but no ! those idots have to rock my peace of mind.
I have seen very few thread started in good faith to exchange facts. We either get the trailor park bunch with their " light " touch or clowns like the Guv reinventing capitalism, or funeral directors hovering around the site flooding us with condoleances when they don't even grip the meaning of the word. That leaves very little room for fair exchanges.

[Saab 2000 Driver]

Oh dear Wallabie, the topic drifted off course when people started whining about trashing the French so hence my reply. See also Airbubba´s, Xenia´s, Boeingboy1´s, and Sick´s replies.

The English was ´plain enough´ for me and clearly reflects you IQ. Thanks for making such a fool of yourself ! :D

First of all accusing somebody of xenophobia who is pleading for ONE common language in aviation (i.e. English !) and thereby substituting his/her own native language, obviously contradicts itself and clearly underlines YOUR stupidity !

Second, with the SAS accident and Linate and now the AF incursion in MEX in mind, maybe it´s time for you to wake up and (try) to see the big picture. Maybe, just maybe there is a common aspect in these accidents/incidents n.l. COMMUNICATION ! It´s something that affects us all over the world, from Basel to Milano to Mexico… With people yepping away in their native language on the ATC frequencies, dangerous situations can occur and subsequently crews and controllers are not trained and proficient in using English.

Third, Let me quote you for a moment: “To judge people because they belong to one culture or another has been tried many many times in history and despots have never been short of ignorant idiots like you, walking in brown shirts to do their dirty jobs.”
My point exactly, therefore these pilots should stop all this national pride nonsence and learn a foreign language like English ! Only fools like yourself cling onto things like national culture and pride and are even willing to sacrifice safety for that.
Are you wearing a brown shirt on your off days ? :confused:
Don´t get me wrong, there is nothing with a diverse culture, but in a professional environment you have to be able to put cultural differences aside and get the job done safely and efficiently.

Fourth, please do not compare the ATC of LAX with CDG ! It´s like comparing apples and oranges. The average US controller, on any given day, can handle more traffic and do so more safely then the French can handle in a week ! If you would place a French controller in the tower in LAX he/she would first of all not understand everything, second he/she would panic and third he/she would strike ! :D

Maybe with your ´plain enough English´ and you username Wallabie, you should consider rounding up cattle in Australia. That way you only have to speak ´plain enough English´ and you stay out of harm´s way.

BTW, it´s a Saab 2000, don´t forget the extra zero !

Ignition Override, I agree with your comments about learning a few words of French/Italian/ Spanish, and I have learned some phrases to aid my situational awareness.
However, wouldn´t be a lot easier if we could all agree to learn a few words of English... :(

[ 22 October 2001: Message edited by: Saab 2000 Driver ]

[Saab 2000 Driver]

Well walabie I think you must have an A+ in CRM.

The way you communicate and get your point across in such a calm, gentle, diplomatic, yet firm way. Oh yes, and the way you can handle critisism. My God, I am jealous !

I´m sure the rest of the crew is ´thrilled´ to fly with you on any given day. ;)

[wallabie]

" Second, with the SAS accident and Linate and now the AF incursion in MEX in mind, maybe it´s time for you to wake up and (try) to see the big picture. "

Saab, you're a tart. The Cessna in Linate was german, and speaking english. Don't think language was the issue on that one,nor was it in Mexico but hey, you're the appointed expert !!


2000 ??? You mean that ridiculous flying saucer that's always on my way when on climb ??? Got you !!! And please do accept my apology. 2000 it will be as from now !!!

Rounding up cattle ??? Boy !! you're amazing !! Do you do palm reading ?? Cause this is exactly what I'm about to do when I'm finished with you as I'm on vacation.

A + on CRM ??? Nice to be recognized in one' s lifetime. This is exactly what my crews tell me, so you see, we do agree on something !!
Saab, you sound as much fun as a UBS chairman who just had root canal work and my SR colleagues are sure going to have the time of their life working with you.

[Saab 2000 Driver]

Hi wallabie,

Have you ever tried to count to 10 in order to control your aggression ? How did you ever pass a psychological airline test ? :confused:

I´m not even going to bother with replying to your insults. :p

If you can´t exchange opinions like an adult, or if you can´t accept the fact that someone else has another opinion, then perhaps you should stop logging in to PPRuNe.

Goodbye and have a nice life !