View Full Version : Qantas Record Profit.

18th Aug 2005, 20:49

The lions share of Capacity into and out of Australia, deteriorating service, "Sydeny- centric", job cuts rewarded by a record profit?


Only the big banks and Telstra do more damage to Australia than Qantas.

But then of course it's GD's last result isn't it? He no doubt leaves with money bags brimming leaving the next poor sod to pick up the pieces.

By the way "THe Qantas Group" seems to me to be an excuse for creating a multitude of senior management positions and a marvellous opportunity for creative accounting. I wonder what cross subsidies are applied across the group?

From a marketing perspective, I also think that it dilutes the value of the QF brand.

The only thing it has done is to provide a way of paring back QF wages and conditions through a multitude of interrelated EBA's.

Sandy Freckle
18th Aug 2005, 21:06
The standard Sunfish rant. I can't see anything new in Sunny's post at all. It's just not worth commenting on.

Zero respect.

18th Aug 2005, 21:44
QF's emblem should be the Koala - protected species.

I'll bet GD is also gleefully pleased about VB's profit downgrade. His motto seems to be "I's not enough for me to win - others must lose"

18th Aug 2005, 23:51
Oh Gawd.....It's back again.
Wasn't it pleasant for a while there without his QF bashing , and " I know everything " diatribes.
BTW since when does 32.2% International market share indicate " The lions share of capacity into and out of Australia " ?.
In case you missed it Sunfish....
Air Transport World's Airline of the year 2004....Qantas.
Qantas...Best managed airline in the world...ATW 2005.
Airline Business 2005 Award for Executive Leadership to Geoff Dixon.

Fris B. Fairing
19th Aug 2005, 00:21
And let's not forget:

RIP Ansett. I'd just like to see Qantas disembowelled the same way.
Sunfish 11 Sep 04

19th Aug 2005, 00:51
or HANOI.....

Worlds most disengaged, unhappy staff, many years running... QANTAS.


19th Aug 2005, 01:39
By the way "THe Qantas Group" seems to me to be an excuse for creating a multitude of senior management positions....

On that I agree.

... and a marvellous opportunity for creative accounting. I wonder what cross subsidies are applied across the group?

There are a few. A bloke I know went to management and said 'I know how to increase revenue by X dollars'. Management was ecstatic and asked him how. His response was along the lines of 'charge AO the same as we charge for every other 'outside customer' instead of giving it to them at a subsidised rate'. No prizes for guessing the response from management.

Double edged sword that one. AOs figures look better than they should be and the 'mainline' figures look worse than they should be. Mainline gets told they they're not being competitive enough and need to cut costs further.

This isn't Flight Ops either! :E

19th Aug 2005, 02:26
Air Transport World's Airline of the year 2004....Qantas.
Qantas...Best managed airline in the world...ATW 2005.
Airline Business 2005 Award for Executive Leadership to Geoff Dixon.

Yes, I'm sure GD is doing a great job.....for the shareholders

19th Aug 2005, 03:04
Yes, I'm sure GD is doing a great job.....for the shareholders

hmmm Donesnt Look like it....


19th Aug 2005, 04:44
And furthermore, one minute QF is "Australia's Flag Carrier" and the next it is a "Global Airline".

Global my a**! Anyone care to compare the fleet sizes and routes of QF compared to any other line?

Lets face it, QF is a tiny niche player in the marketplace, one that is entirely protected from real "Global" airlines by a Government totally Sydney-centric to the detriment of every other Australian who doesn't live in Sydney. You simply pretend to be a force in the international marketplace. United probably scrap more aircraft in one year than the entire QF fleet.

Good management? QF gets to extract an extra billion dollars from the wallets of Australians when every other airline in the world - real "Global" airlines, is barely making money! Is that good management? Well I suppose it is, If management is about licking the private parts of government ministers to maintain your market share at the expense of consumers.

We would all be better off if QF was told to f&*^ off and we had open skies. Then at least the inbound tourism markets would open up, instead of everyone being dragged kicking and screaming through Sydney.

You make me sick.

19th Aug 2005, 05:05
What's the point of arguing with someone who can't even read an airline timetable.

19th Aug 2005, 05:17
Whilst it could be argued Mr Fish is a little bit of a QF basher it could also be argued that Sandy and Hanoi are GDs love children:p

Read " On a whinge and a preyer " todays Australian, business section by Michael West, sorry, I'm not posting it, far more important stuff to do.

Wake up and smel the coffee in Brazil, shafting your employees is a good way to make money....................in the short term, and thats all that GD is interested in, is'nt it :mad:

Johhny Utah
19th Aug 2005, 05:21

Why don't you care to enlighten us with some facts to back up your ranting?

Given the numbers indicated below, Qantas is hardly a 'tiny niche player' - however feel free to prove me wrong.

And as much as I don't necessarily agree with the way in which Qantas is being managed, the fact that they're still making money is a good thing - certainly better than the Australian governmnet having to bail them out, like so many of their competitors...

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas_Airways#Fleet)

The Qantas fleet consists of the following aircraft (at August 2005):

* 4 Airbus A330-200
* 7 Airbus A330-300 (further 3 on order)
* 1 Boeing 737-300
* 21 Boeing 737-400
* 28 Boeing 737-800 (further 5 on order)
* 5 Boeing 747-300
* 30 Boeing 747-400
* 24 Boeing 767-300

Cathay Pacific Fleet from Wikipedia

Airbus A330-300 20 J44/Y267(311)
Airbus A330-333 5 P8/J32/Y211(251) With New Business Class
Airbus A340-300 (34C) 5 P8/J30/Y205(243) With New Business Class
Airbus A340-300 (34D) 10 J30/Y257(287)
Airbus A340-600 3 P8/J60/Y218(286) With New Business Class
Boeing 747-200F 6 -
Boeing 747-400 15 P12/J47/Y324(383)
Boeing 747-400 Premium 4 P12/J65/Y268(345)
Boeing 747-400F 5 -
Boeing 777-200 5 J45/Y291(336)
Boeing 777-300 11

British Airways
The British Airways fleet consists of the following aircraft (at June 2005):

* 33 Airbus A319-100 (further 3 on order)
* 5 Airbus A320-100
* 21 Airbus A320-200
* 6 Airbus A321-200 ( further 1 on order)
* 5 Boeing 737-300
* 19 Boeing 737-400
* 10 Boeing 737-500
* 57 Boeing 747-400
* 13 Boeing 757-200
* 20 Boeing 767-300ER
* 3 Boeing 777-200
* 40 Boeing 777-200ER

United Airlines
* Boeing 747-422
Number in fleet: 31
Configuration: 14/73/260
Services:East Asia, South Pacific, Washington to Frankfurt, ferry and positioning flights between hubs

* Boeing 777-222
Number in fleet: 56
Configuration: 36/312 (North America), 12/49/197 (transatlantic), 10/45/198 (transpacific)
Services: international, transcontinental

* Boeing 767-322ER
Number in fleet: 37
Configuration: 34/210 (domestic), 10/32/151 (international)
Services: transcontinental, transatlantic

* Boeing 757-222
Number in fleet: 96
Configuration: 21/158 (standard), 12/26/72 (JFK to SFO and LAX)
Services: transcontinental

* Boeing 737-522
Number in fleet: 57
Configuration: 8/96 (standard), 8/102 (former shuttle)
Services: domestic short-haul

* Boeing 737-322
Number in fleet: 101
Configuration: 8/112 (standard), 8/120 (former shuttle)
Services: domestic short-haul

* Airbus A320
Number in fleet: 90
Configuration: 12/126
Services: domestic short-haul, transcontinental

* Airbus A319
Number in fleet: 55
Configuration: 8/112
Services: domestic short-haul

Don Esson
19th Aug 2005, 06:08
Get over it Sunny old chap! Were it not for your eccentricity, we could probably have a worthwile discussion. I'm sorry, but are you really a complete Richard Cranium? You sure write like one.

Over the years, the Qantas decision-makers know what they were and are doing. They do things by and large very well subject to some union nasties, poor government policy and direction as well as some outrageous work practices. If airlines believed that the punters really wanted to go to Melbourne, why would they bring them to Sydney instead? Like it or not, and ignore the fact at your peril, but Sydney is the primary target on the radar of more than 90% of the visitors attracted to Australia. This view is shared by most airlines serving Australia. Ever heard of market forces, Sunny boy? Qantas follows market forces closely and if you care to look at route seat factors, you will see that on most routes they capably match capacity with demand.

Pray, Sunfish, can you tell us

(1) how many carriers serve Sydney versus Melbourne on direct overseas flights?

(2) how many direct flights are offered each week ex Melbourne and ex Sydney?

(3) have you ever looked at, let alone analyse, the aviation stats published by the Aust govt each month? If you did, you would know that in April 05, Melbourne attracted 20.0% of International movements and 20% of the SLF. Sydney attracted 43.8% of the movemnts and 46.2% of the SLF. Do these numbers tell you anything? As they include freighter movements, they margins would be wider in Sydney if we discounted the freighters.

(4) why did that bastion of the Melbourne establishment, the late but little lamented Ansett, base its International airline in Sydney and operate its Japan, Hong Kong and Indonesian flights direct from and to Sydney?

(5) when and how often have you been forced to travel internationally over Sydney instead of a direct Melbourne flight?

Sunny, you whining may have been justified a few years ago, but today it simply means that you are yesterday's man. Have a gripe against Dixon and his greed if you like but show a bit of judgement and less emotion about the majority of the good people who are Qantas. The poor buggers are just doing their best in the most difficult and, quite often, unhappiest of circumstances.

19th Aug 2005, 06:27

Profits = Job Cuts :rolleyes:

19th Aug 2005, 11:01

You really need to get a life.

Or maybe just laid!


19th Aug 2005, 20:24
Qantas = Sacred Cow......................................................... ....................................

Crusty Demon
19th Aug 2005, 21:00
Sunfish, can you explain your reasoning of why QF should not fly to Sydney but should concentrate on other cities (I presume you mean Melbourne). Can't seem to understand your logic, the more I read the more I think you have been drinking too much before you post (it doesn't always make sense).

19th Aug 2005, 21:43
Haven't got into analysis of the numbers yet, a little jetlagged.

As Keg alluded to and even old Sunfish has picked up on it. I t is a clever accountant's spin that nominally dervies a number for J*. There is so much borrowed infrastructure and personnel that there are clearly issues with respect to the preparation of the accountants. Much is loaded back to mainline, which has its accounts presented , whereas the other entities aren't presented as stand alone trading entities...Its a great way to hide real costs.

And from what I have seen the Share price is still stuck, so maybe the markets are waking up........

Mind you it's a great way to continually threaten your workforce by pointing out how well J* does and how bad we at mainline do......Engagement they call it


22nd Aug 2005, 02:03
Ultralights and QF insider

The QF share price is a little misleading due to cash dividends being stripped out of the share value and the increasing number of shares being issued due to the DRP plan.

The QF market capitalisation is $6,338 million (Delta is currently US$200 million and about to enter Chapter 11)

Regardless QF has been a poor investment and always will be due to the nature and risk (increasing) attached to the business.

The QF total investment return has been as follows:

1 year +0.7% (VB -3.6%)
3 years -3.1%
5 years +3.7%
10 years +11.4%

These figures do not take any staff benefits (if any) on discounted shares

For Jimmy Bow Tie fans he saw the writing on the wall in the airline industry with all the problems and jumped ship to Woolworths (WOW).

The WOW total investment return has been as follows:

1 year +33.9%
3 years +15.3%
5 years +23.3%
10 years +22.8%

For VB fans I see your shares heading south for $1.25 unless there is any corporate take over activity.

22nd Aug 2005, 16:16
Just as an aside to the profit, could anyone please tell me how the tsunami helped cause AO's lose. From what I know AO only flew to Phuket for a number of charter flights and they had finished before the tsunami. I can't think of any other AO routes that were into any tsunami hit areas so how can this contribute to their lack of profit.

4th Sep 2005, 04:47

I am not and have never been a QF (or TN) employee but I do not see too much wrong with the QF fleet, fuel is only one consideration.

The B777 may not have suited the QF requirement 10 years ago. The latest B777's are streets ahead of the early build models in payload/range.

I do not see any B777's or other twins operating nonstop between Aust and the U.S. I do not see too many either operating between Aust and UK/Europe.

In any case there are no twins with the payload/range of the B747-400 and B747-400ER.

As QF were the first airline in the world to place a firm order (6 March 2001) for the A380 (12 plus 12 options) and the launch customer for the Trent 900 powerplant I do not think anyone culd accuse QF of not having the 'balls' to make fleet planning decisions.

While QF have been a very succesful airline over a number of years their financial performance is nothing to get too excited about. Last years profit of $763,600,000 after tax (Comm Bank $3,900,000,000) could just about pay for 2 x A380 with spares and start up costs.

Part of the profit increase was due to an increase of 9.5% in passenger revenue and a 46% increase in freight revenue.

The QF debt/equity ratio is 89.3% and as I have said before the business is high risk and below average financial returns expected by most company shareholders.

If any QF pilots think they are hard done by they should talk with some of their US counterparts. DL are about to seek protection under Chapter 11 and will be followed by NW CO and AA.

Some pilots have seen their salarys drop US$50,000 per year with a corresponding drop in retirement pension. Some of the ALPA decisions made a number of years ago have seen the chickens come home to roost.

The latest one to haunt them is the scope provision clauses in some contracts

White Hart
5th Sep 2005, 15:25
First time I've looked at this part of pprune... not surprised to see squabbles over National Carrier issues...same with BA in the UK really.

For what its worth, I have just done the tourist trip to Australia (LHR/LAX/SYD/CNS and return), and I would say that SYD is a better place for the tourist to start his AUS trip than MEL (went there years ago).

I watched the QF hoo-haa about profits etc on your TV. If the staff at QF have issues, then, to their credit, they certainly did not show it on any of the flights I took - top class service all the way. Even the food was good!

There's no worse start to your holiday than paying good hard-earned money for your flight, only to be looked after by someone wearing a face like a smacked ar*e, and with attitude to match. (Certain staff working on other Carriers ex-LHR could take note!)

Well done QF - and thank you.:ok:

6th Sep 2005, 02:05
Quick !
A happy customer :eek:

Call the Taxidermist :p

6th Sep 2005, 05:01
Yeah. How dare a public company chase a profit. They should be trying to make a loss. They should hire more staff and pay them what ever they want. :yuk:

Umm. Stop whining and buy some shares if you think they are making so much money?!