what to do with 600 hrs ? TR or FI or wait ?

[buzzc152]

I'm in the slightly unusual position of having had a job on light singles over the summer and have managed to amassed 600 TT without having spent any money to get them.

Now I have a choice to make. I was rather hoping that with 600 hrs I might have a few nibbles from regional turbo operators/nationals but so far nothing. So do I go an get a FI rating (which is what I was going to do when I first got CPL and would be a lot of fun I reckon) or go a pay for a TR (which I could just about afford by selling my house.....and soul). Or should I hang on a bit longer and hope with my 600 hours that something turns up ?

[TheFlyingDJ]

Go for the CPL and ME/IR.
600TT is nice, but you at least need a CPL to go commercial.

[Craggenmore]

which is what I was going to do when I first got CPL and would be a lot of fun I reckon which I could just about afford by selling my house.....and soul
I think you have the answer already mate.

Personally, I'm doing the FI route.

Just a word of caution about paid for TR's....Two flight school mates paid for their rating at the back end of 2004 and are already looking to move to a better paying airline. Why?

Well, because the job has now been won and the dust has settled, the reality is that the ALL theor re-payments have suddenly bitten them and they are just about surviving. I just hope that their cars don't break down as they could'nt afford to fix them. Its that tight.

Not many people mention this when they say that paid for TR's are great. Yes it can get you a job but at a price.

Craggs

[mattd2k]

Buzzc,

Go the FI route. The course is great and the job is good fun. I have only been instructing for a month and already am getting a lot more out of it than I thought.

You have already spent enough money on your training to get as far as you have. Your future employer should pay for your TR as they always have. By paying for it yourself you will only be degrading everyones T&C's in the future.

It is a tough decision, good luck with it. I can only say I am pleased with the one I have made.

Matt. :ok:

[Flying Farmer]

Just out of interest Buzz, how old are you? it might be a deciding factor as to which route you take.

[buzzc152]

I'm 28.5.....and yes, that is a big factor. Ok, I'm still on the right side of 30, but won't be for long. Also, I'm getting married next year and would really like to get established in this career asap.

As I say, I know I'd really enjoy a job as an FI but is it any more of a guaruntee of eventually getting a RHS job as opposed to paying for a TR ??? I don't really want to pay £20k but if that's the quickest way to get where I want to be then so be it.

Of course, the other option is to wait. Just maybe with a fATPL + 600hrs that first job is just around the corner. I might shell out £5k on a FI only to get a job a week later.

One other option that occurs to me is to get myself rated on a King Air or similar at a cost of £10k ish.......I am as (un)likely to find a job on such an aircraft as I were if I bought a 737/A320 rating ??

Decisions, decisions. I need to make up my mind as the summer job ends fairly soon.

ps, flyingdj, I already have the CPL/IR.

[Craggenmore]

last week Netjets were looking for a non TR FO to fly the King Air - Hours circa 700..........

check Flight International.........

p.s. update your profile.....

[buzzc152]

Oh yeah, I applied for that. Odd advert. 'Approx 750 hours.... preferably an unfrozen ATPL'. How does one get a full ATPL on 750 hours ????

Anyway, I got an e-mail from them the other day saying 'sorry, not enough hours'

I can'tupdate my profile....... don't know why but it won't except my e-mail address. Hope FMS isn't as complicated as my PC.

[Flying Farmer]

Hi Buzz

I would forget about the Kingair rating. Most in the UK are operated single pilot and I would think it to be highly unlikely any one would take you on as a Captain without time on type and more hours.

At the end of the day only you can decide which way to go, but I would say having been there myself that instructing is not going to pay the bills. If you can survive on <£10000 a year it will do you no harm and you are still young enough to get an airline job as and when one comes up. As you say it might be soon after you have done the FI rating, thats the chance you take.

FF

[TheFlyingDJ]

ps, flyingdj, I already have the CPL/IR.

O ok, it's just that i ead your profile and it states PPL.

Disregard my last post about that then.

If you are about to turn 29, it's a big thing to gain lots of hours. FI is a great oppertunity for that. You get to log a lot.

Then King Air thing, like allready said, don't bother. It is turbo time yes, but my guess is to better invest in something more solid.

I'm also in the same position. Done integrated and have a frozen for 8 months, working a lot to keep up. A TQ could get you in somewhere that pays allright and you fly lots of sectors.

'Approx 750 hours.... preferably an unfrozen ATPL'. How does one get a full ATPL on 750 hours ????

I think what they mean is "apply when you have hours between approx 750 and 1500".

The normal hours to get into NJ was 1500.

I know you are a bit worried, but hang on. There is movement everywhere and pilots from the "smaller"airlines are going to majors, opening up some spaces.

Again, it's a matter of right time and right place.

Best of luck to you man.

[Freebird17]

As I read it, the Netjets job is not on a Kingair, it does not ask for an unfrozen ATPL and it is not like other Netjets jet jobs.

[angelorange]

It's a Beech 1900 which under JAR and FAA rules IS single pilot rules - so not an MPA ie: you can't get your ATPL issued on it!

This is very weird and I have emailed the CAA to ask why a Jetstream (which weighs less than the B1900) is MPA and yet this m/c isn't.

No reply as yet.


I would recommend getting the FI rating and staying in current flying practice by teaching others.

[ATP_Al]

Sorry to hijack this thread, but I'd like to clear up this issue about single- and multi-pilot aircraft.

To unfreeze your JAR ATPL you need 500hrs on multi-pilot aircraft or single pilot aircraft flown multi-crew in accordance with operational requirements AND a multi pilot type rating to open the licence. If you log 500hrs as a first officer on a B1900 or King Air with a JAR operator the hours will count, although you will not get a full ATPL until you gain an MPA type rating. So the moment you join an airline flying B737s etc your ATPL will unfreeze. The only problem with being in this situation is that not many people, employers included, understand the rules!

As for the original question, I'd take the FI route. It costs less, is more fun and it's something I'd ultimately like to do as a hobby when I've got an airline job.

I'd consider paying for a type rating on a small turboprop if the company signed a contract beforehand, and only if it was a small operator that genuinely couldn't afford to train low hours pilots. I'm not in favour of paying the likes of Ryanair for a type rating when they are making some very serious money at the pilot's expense!

Al

[theWings]

Hey Buzz,

Tough choice but just remember that there is so much more to the FI ticket than hours building. It is a great course and your flying, theoretical knowledge and airmanship will improve dramatically. So what if you get an airline job straight after? Would you really call that bad luck? Anyway, the rating is valid for 3 years and who knows, your future employer might find it useful and therefore attractive.

Whether your student has just walked back into the club after a passed test or you're flying with a 14 yr old on a trial lesson, the smiles are all ear to ear :) all round. Just don't try living on the income at PPL level!

As far as the TR is concerned, I'm not taking my own advice here because I'm much older than you and have far fewer options, so I'm going to do one. In fact, I'm aiming at just the kind of small operator that ATP_Al is talking about (very PC, mate, I like it ;) ), not the large locos. But instructors of your age are leaving my school to the RHS all the time without a TR... They are all, however, going to be bonded or will repay the cost in full or in part over time. The big difference is that they have a job before they get in the sim. Anyone telling you about self sponsored TRs affecting Ts & Cs and the like needs to be a bit more realistic. Fact is, there is not and never has been any such thing as free lunch. Just don't do one if you can possibly avoid it!

Good Luck, mate :ok:

the Wings