Helicopter insurance

[Flying Lawyer]

If it is, or if you have any outstanding claims under a policy with Folksam Insurance (or any variation of 'Folksam' insurance) you'd be wise to contact the company or your broker in writing to find out whether your have insurance cover / whether any outstanding claim will be met.
Do not delay.
Ensure that the answer you receive is unambiguous and in writing.

[Heliport]

Hall & Clarke Insurance Brokers Plc of Harrow, Middlesex were agents for Folksam and issued insurance policies on behalf of Folksam.

[coalface]

pourquoi vous vous enquérez ?

[Hoverman]

I know of one syndicate that has suffered very badly with Folksam.

They had a total loss of a twin f/w but Folksam wouldn't pay up, claiming some technicality so the syndicate sued.

The brokers Hall & Clark supported Folksam against the syndicate!

Flying Lawyer won the case for the syndicate, but they still haven't managed to get the money or their legal costs.

Worth remembering although insurance brokers are your agents, they get their commission paid by insurance companies.
So guess where their loyalty lies when the going gets rough. :mad:

[md 600 driver]

Hall & Clark

i for one wont use them again how about everbody else

[sclarke]

I am Chairman of Hall and Clarke

I can confirm that we had a scheme with 'Folksam' between 1991 and 2000. Such a scheme with delagated policy issueance is common place with all larger GA brokers.

In those ten years 188 claims were made and paid in full. One claim was rejected by Folksam (not us). I believe this claim went into arbitration where it remains. I do not believe this case has been won or lost but remains in arbitration.

The problems Folksam have encountered are some 18 months after our last policy with them expired.

Apart from the one claim in arbitration, there are no other claims outstanding and no policies in force.

At Hall and Clarke we have never placed any Helicopter insurance policies with Folksam.

We pride ourselves in customer service. If anyone has an issue please direct it to me.

Simon Clarke - Chairman



My minor edit did not relate to the text of the post. The brokers' version remains as written.
It was a fixed-wing policy - whatever difference that makes.

Heliport



Update: The syndicate won the arbitration but never got their money.
Folksam went into liquidation after the syndicate won.

Heliport

[virgin]

S Clarke says Folksam not H&C tried to get out of paying the syndicate after their total loss. But I notice he hasn't denied his firm supported Folksam against the owners when the case went to court!
Funny that. :rolleyes:

My little toy comes up for renewal next month - H&C won't be on my list of brokers when we shop around for quotes.

[rotorboater]

I have just got my insurance premium for next year and it has gone up again by 13% despite having an extra years no claims discount to add. Am I being ripped off or does everybody else pay huge amounts in the UK?

Are there any lower cost brokers out there, from what I gather there are only about 3 firms at Lloyds covering helicopters, all the others want to cover planks.

Statistically, are we more likely to crash than a plank? Personally I think I have more chance of getting down in 1 piece than most planks that need 300 clear yds to land in.

I only fly about 50 hours a year for pleasure and my insurance is working out at £90 per hour!

[Gaseous]

You don't say what you fly or who your quote is from. Heywards insure mine and were amenable to complaints of too expensive. WE are not more likely to make a claim. Students in R22s are. My premium was directly linked to the value of the aircraft I bought - hence buy a cheap one to pay less.

[john du'pruyting]

I'm afraid insurance costs have gone up significantly for commercial operators as well :(

[Aesir]

I am involved in a private ownership of a nice AgustaBell 206B but the insurance is killing us.

Does anyone out there know of a insurance company in Europe with good rates?

Right now we have grounded the aircraft and taken it off insurance (mainly because we are abroad now) but we would like to get flying when we get home again.

We were paying $14.500 for liability insurance only with our last insurance company.

Now we got an offer for $16.500 for hull & liability ($200.000 hull value) which is much better but still it gives me bad taste in the mouth!

If any of the private owners out there could point me to a good insurance company with better rates I would appreciate it.


"And please no smart remarks that I should be able to afford it if I own my private heli! I can afford it but I´m still not going to get screwed".

[Nigel Osborn]

I don't know much about insurance for private pilots, but commercially we were charged a lot less if the pilots had 2000 hours total and paid a loading till they had 100 hours on type. This is purely because of statistics with claims. So if you have 5000 hours and 10 on the 206, you would have a loading till you reached 100.
Perhaps you should negoiate with this hour requirement just like drivers ages with cars.

[moosp]

You appear to have been quoted around 8.5% hull value, which sounds at the high end even for private use.

We have been quoted 4.5% for an EC120, non-commercial operation, but our area of operation is necessarily more limited here with no winter operations.

Try another broker, I gather Lloyds themselves are looking for new business to spread risk.

My 2c's

[belly tank]

We are on 3% for the 206 on a commercial operation. but it again depends on use and pilot experience and history

[Helipolarbear]

Try Hayward Insurance in the UK. Very pragmatic and reasonable rates.
Typical rates are 3-6% of Hull Value...........with Pilot Hour Riders!:cool:

[Aesir]

Thanks a lot guy's.

I'm going to talk with Hayward insurance.

"Belly tank" who's your insurance provider.

We are just 2 guy's flying this helicopter. Me with 4400 hrs & 1000 on type and also a PPL with 150 hrs and 65 hrs on type.

I wouldnt mind paying 3 - 4.5% but over 6% is kinda high.

[diethelm]

In the U.S.

500E

2,000,000 liability with 200,000 per passenger sub limit.

400,000 hull with 10,000 deductible

Commercial with Instrument, 200 hours total time, factory training and 85 hours in make and model.

$26,000 for the total or $2,460 for liability only.

[rotorrisk]

diethelm-
Your in line....part 91 use?

Regards,
Rotorisk

[diethelm]

rotorrisk:

That is a quote. Still actively looking. I have bid on two 520N's from an excess property sale but there were two bidders, and he outbid me by 100k per aircraft in a sealed bid. There is another E coming up for sale that I will probably bid on if it checks out.

I have ads in several of the normal industry publications but I have simply not yet found the right aircraft.

[Aesir]

I have today received a offer from Marsh ltd at 7.5% hull value and I´m not able to get liability only from them.

This is not the first time that a insurance company does not want to offer liability only to me. Seems that they must be making some money on the hull risk insurance!

"Diethelm" your quote seems to be about 6% of hull value.

[cholmondeley]

I own a small fixed wing and ditto heli flown only by me . Anyone know of a reputable UK insurer who will insure on a "one up; one down" basis

[Heliport]

All UK aviation insurance brokers go to the aviation insurance market for policies.
The terms of the policy don't depend upon the broker but on the underwriters - although some have delegated permission to issue policies when they have a close connection with a particular insurance company.

If brokers shop around the market on your behalf, they should come up with the same offers from the various underwriters in the market but, from what I hear, it's worth trying a few brokers to make sure you find out what's available because some brokers get better deals than others

If you're offered a policy issued by an insurance company called 'Folksam' or any version of 'Folksam', don't touch it with a barge pole.
Some owners, to my own knowledge, were left high and dry when Folksam put one of their companies into liquidation without settling the claim.
They rejected the claim and when the policy-holders sued them, they put the company into administration.

[chalmondleigh]

I buy my Helicopter insurance through an AOC company to whom I charter it on occasion. The actual policy is with Hayward Aviation.
My renewal is due and I have been told that the premium will be going up by 10%.
This seems an entirely arbitrary figure; I am always suspicious of round figure numbers anyway.
Does anyone else have any recent experience in renewing their helicopter insurance?

[helicopter-redeye]

I've always been with HAI as well, and the price has always gone up each year (or the benefits on the policy reduce to meet a target price).

The last renewal was the smallest increase of all so I hope it is not the start of a trend.

I believe the cost comes from the underwriter rather than the broker so even shopping around may end with the same price ??

Take a look at what you get for the money. May be worth going to named pilots to reduce cost. Even if with an AOC holder they will have a limited number of commercial pilots flying the machine.

h-r

[Hughes500]

I insure 5 machines with the same company, dispite a claim my insurance is unchanged. Now if I had not had a claim I would have had 10% reduction, on what is called profit share. Your AOC company is stiching you up, but they may be passing on a fleet discount which if you went on your own would lead to a futher increase.

[Thomas coupling]

The other thing to remember is that if you did change insurance companies, would you get a better deal.
We have been with Haywards for years and they have been tested for real (on 2 occasions) over payouts. They are an exceptional and very conscientious company. The devil is in the detail and their T's and C's are simple and fair.

Be very careful before you jettison your insurance company, The cheapest premium shouldn't be your argument for moving!

[TOT]

Does anyone kow how many heli insurance brokers/underwriters there are in the UK.?
there seems to be a bit of a limited choice
thanks

[Sa341]

Tot

I know people at HSBC insurance, Haywards, London international insurance brokers if that helps

SA341

[nigelh]

I still think somebody should organise a group of say 20 -30 owners of aircraft say under 500k and look at captive insurance of the hulls and just buy 3rd party. You could have some rules such as min 100 hrs on type , 500 total, no autos to the ground etc My guess is you could halve the cost.
For instance my heli costs 16k to insure but there are no limits on hrs flown..i could do self fly hire 1000 hrs a year, no hrs or experience requirement at all !!! Any pilot regardless of age,experience can fly...... which makes me ask the question what if you halved the risk by taking these low hr pilots out, take out training and autos and fly say less than 250 hrs ???
If anyone wants to put a group together on this line then count me in !
By the way be warned, if you think you are insured for engine damage you may well not be...with Haywards there is NO cover at all if any part of the a/c goes through the engine and writes it off...that is then a $300,000 plus bill on a squirrel and not a penny from the insurance !!! BE AWARE:=