LAEs Replaced By RMA "technicians" and matters arising.

[tim-ing]

I am new to this forum and I have only just started reading it, I am an LAE with the major UK airline. Some of my LAE friends have left my work area for pastures new and it raises several concerns I would like to air. Firstly, they are not being replaced and the young recently qualified LAE's can see this so they have left too. Second concern, this leaves the airline I work for filling the gap with RMA (Ramp Maintenance Authorisation) staff who were initially only signing for their own work on standard nil defects turnrounds, the odd wheel change or nav light filament. These guys are being leant on to get JAR66 licences by extending their cover to 2 aircraft types, doing more complex ramp checks and initial parts of duplicate inspections. Most are doing this not more pay, but the threat that they will lose their currently enhanced pay in May 2001 if they do not .As the workload of the remaining LAE's increases, it is increasingly more difficult to monitor the standard of work carried out by the RMA staff, at the same time the QA dept is delegating its responsibility for the standard of the RMA staff to the LAE's. Is this happening anywhere else?
Last point, those who leave, usually due to frustrated ambition or the lure of more money report back that the companies they join are no better than the one they left. They've gone to some well respected airlines only to find the engineering section is a shambles.
Some of the items in the forum suggest that this is the case. Are there any good ones?
Has anyone tried to get into the airline related forum, which is mainly there for the benefit of flight crew? Has anyone suceeded? If so is it worthwhile? I maintain that flight crew have little or no idea about how the engineering staff struggle to produce a good product despite bad management , the bead counters and the submissive attitude of the CAA.
I don't see much evidence of flight crew contributing to this forum, so perhaps we should be able to contribute to their forum at the same time keeping the discussions in the company.
Any thoughts?

[Blacksheep]

From my own observations this is increasingly the situation everwhere and is a symptom of the shortage of engineers. IMHO, the wages and conditions are no longer attractive to staff of the quality needed to ensure airworthiness. The result is a decline in quantity as LAEs vote with their feet and potential recruits decline to join us.

The continuing pressure to reduce air fares inevitably leads to cost cutting. Engineering is seen by accountants as a necessary evil, rather than protecting the value of the company's capital assets (the aircraft) In the immediate future many operators will reach the end of the road in cost cutting attempts and go out of business. We must hope that the reduction in competitiion will allow prices to rise enough to rebuild our industry's infrastructure once again.

While competition is accepted as being good for consumers as it leads to lower prices, what about the situation where the customer is unable to determine for himself the quality of the service? In the area of aviation safety, Regulators are supposed to be looking after the public interest by enforcing standards. In UK the CAA have delegated many of their functions away to quality departments in their own search for cost reductions. Then, those quality departments, also trying to cut costs by staff reductions, delegate their responsiblity down to the supervisors. Everyone passes the buck and standards fall.
When will the public pay for their cheap flights through increased casualty rates? I don't know, but I sure want to be out of the business before the planes start falling out of the sky. The world thinks that terrorism is the greatest single threat to public safety in the air, but I'm very much afraid they are in for rude awakening!

**********************************
Through difficulties to the cinema

[redtail]

Blacksheep, my sentiments exactly. So why won't anyone listen to us? Do we give off fumes that tarnish the gold braid of pilot's uniforms? Are our concerns too complicated for the press to report?

[Bus429]

Might be a good time to raise public awareness of these issues. The very fact we write to this forum means it is in the public domain anyway.

I agree with what has been written above.

[tim-ing]

It seems to me that no one organisation in the UK has got it right. I am line maintenance staff (only 30 years experience so I probably don't count for much). BA does contract work , I have earned mega money in overtime trying to get aircraft out on time and BA hasn't made any money on the deal. One thing I learnt was that hangar based staff work at a different pace to line maintenance staff.
We had the hangar based staff telling us to slow down, so what do I make of that? In perfect condtions with all the tooling and equipment it takes longer to change components than during a turnround with the rain pouring down. The incentive to get the job done should be the same. I've been in major overhaul, I know, it takes longer with the docking all around, other people working in the area have to be considered etc. However the "stop work its tea up", the endless waits in stores for tooling and materials (usually chatting about golf) is still lingering on. It came to a point that hangar managers were praying line maitenance guys would be in on overtime to get the job done and save face.
My main point is that the aviation engineering scene has some lazy b~#£&*Ds earning good money doing little to earn it knowing that the company can't get shot of them because the CAA is keeping an eye on the fleet to engineer ratio. Companies are scared to get rid of them because there isn't a queue of
qualified people to take their place. Staff travel as a perk has cost airlines much in the long term it has attracted the wrong type of person, the parasite, RAF, barrack room lawyer types on a RAF pension, who are happy to work (or should I say attend) for crap money. It really annoys me that aircraft engineering isn't promoted as the great job it can be. What is JAR66 doing? It's making it even less attractive to join the profession and attain LAE status. RMA seems to be the future unless Joe Public wakes up to the fact that you only get what you pay for.

[near enuf is good enuf]

L.A.E.- Who are we kidding?
We are not engineers! Engineers go to University for years to obtain a degree. They come out to the big , bad world and get a job that pays more, for less effort than we put in.
The truth is "we are not engineers".
We are making a big deal of our job, fixing a/c is not hard.
In the states guys come out of Pizza Hut, get an A&P and sign off the complete a/c. Some of these a/c put in more hrs/cycles than a/c this side of the pond and I'm afraid they are not falling from the sky!
Don't get me wrong, I love my job. I have full avionics cover on 73/75/76/320/330 which I am bloody proud of, it was a hard slog and yes standards are dropping but only because they were too high in the first place. JAR is addressing this situation and yes we will become technicians but the truth is we were never engineers in the first place.

[WideBodiedEng]

Near enuf,
You're absolutely right! We call ourselves "engineers" cos Mechanics are semi-skilled (at least to the RAF types!)
On another tack....
Recently, while talking at home about an Avionics snag (Sad!) my wife asked "Why is an Avionics engineer needed to change a black box??"
Pray tell - is it because rather than having higher standards this side of the pond, we just like to make life more difficult?

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The Stamp is mightier than the Toolbox!!

[redtail]

"We are making a big deal of our job, fixing a/c is not hard.
In the states guys come out of Pizza Hut, get an A&P and sign off the complete a/c. Some of these a/c put in more hrs/cycles than a/c this side of the pond and I'm afraid they are not falling from the sky!"

I think there is a difference between signing something off and fixing the actual problem. Most of the "Pizza Hut" mechanics stay away from write-ups that would make them stand center stage, such as gear and flight control problems.

You forgot to mention our MacDonalds managers.


[This message has been edited by redtail (edited 08 July 2000).]

[Multi-X]

Tim-ing - in your post about RMA, you forgot to mention who signed the work experiecne books for these mechanics to get their first approval ("Cabin" if I remember correctly).
So to put the record straight the reason BA has lots of mechanics with RMP is because the BA LAEs signed their worksheets.

Shortage of LAEs at BA, low status at BA, low pay at BA for new starters etc all down to the LAEs at BA.

Now you have the workload charter guys have had for years.

BA LAEs created this situation, when they refused to join with BALPA and instead took a large one off pay rise.

[tim-ing]

Yes Multi-X, I thoroughly agree with your last posting. I might make the comment that it was management grade TMG LAE's who signed the workbooks of staff seeking to hold RMA status, there were only a couple of these guys in each area and for reasons best known to themselves they did so knowing that the books were works of fiction. Now that in recent months the Quality Dept has delegated the responsibility for this to non management LAEs and have dropped the requirement to scrutinise the workbooks themselves. The RMA staff are having a harder job filling in their books in the first place and then getting them endorsed. I hope any BA LAEs who might read this will think long and hard before taking on the role of the Quality Dept.
I would also point out that not everyone has accepted the supplemented LAE status as this opens the door to management leaning on you to go along with their plan.

[spanners]

I think that the LAE supplement had to be taken when offered because most others accepted the offer and to not accept would have left you out in the open with the same job being paid less than the next guy who would be doing the same anyway. I would never have stamped the PER of anyone whom I suspected to have dubious skills. However, if the union had had a position on the supplement I would have gone along with whatever was reccomended. However, most union people at my base were RMA holders and had other interests, and I never knew if the union had a position on this.

[tim-ing]

In my area you had to apply for the LAE supplement, and then, if your local manager agreed that you deserved it, you got it. In many cases this did not mean more money in your hand at the end of the month. Some actually recieved less due to increased pension contribution. I would get £18 a month if I accepted it before tax. I choose not to accept it until it suits me.
As for the union when has the LAE ever been backed by any of the BA unions even less cared about. Also any attempt to get another association or union recognised by BA has to date failed.

[NFF_PRF]

Just remember if you take the BA LAE supplement, you are leaving yourself open to all kinds of underhand management pressure.

I refused to take it. I read the handout very carefully and actually took legal advice on the matter. If you want a few bob extra, be prepared to suffer the concequences.

The "Blameless Culture" within BA is about to end. It's going to be your **** on the line.

My opinion of the RMA issue.........in such a safety concious industry, how can you justify having ex painters, refurbishers and MT mechanics certifying aircraft after minimal training?
What other industry does this? Would you call a bricklayer when your house needs rewiring?

I don't blame the guys for getting the RMA, it's good money considering a great deal of them are a load of idiots without a single professional bone in their heads.

Why did some of us work bloody hard through an apprenticeship when the bloke next to you didn't, has no formal qualifications and earns the same money.

Don't tell me......the clever ones get licenced and go on to be ............i think this takes us back to the first post.

[spanners]

I dont think BA ever had a so called 'blameless culture', although they liked to spout on about it.

[Avo Prodd]

Near enuff isn't good enough, I don't think. It's comment's like that that allow the bean counters to cut back on pay and conditions. How hard is it to fly an aeroplane these days, and how much cash do those guys get paid? I'll remember that on my third night shift on the trot at 4 am when I have to decide whether to release an electric aircraft or not after an intermittent flt control sys snag with 350 odd people on board. I suppose what you class yourself as depends on how much effort you put in to get your licences, how current you are and how professional your attitude is. Maybe enuff said should take that burger management job, as you can get away with not cooking a burger properly..........

[near enuf is good enuf]

Avo Prodd,

I'd love to answer you but I just don't know what an "electric aircraft" that carries 350 pax is?
Please anybody enlighten me!

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So that you may not be the martyred slaves of Time,
get drunk, get drunk,
and never pause for rest!
With wine, poetry, or vitrtue,
as you choose!"

[Knuckle dragger]

I'm new to this forum so please forgive me for butting in, but I've been searching through the threads and came across this one and am amazed at the school boy attitudes of some of the posts.
I AM an RMA holder in 'The British Airline' and I'm getting pretty fed up with the bad press that RMA holders are getting.
Yes there are some bad eggs with RMA's, but you can't tell me that their aren't LAE's that are just as bad. Most LAE's are quite happy to sit on there arses until they have to sign the log,and yes they are paid for the privilege. I haven't seen many posts by RMA holders about that, and it doesn't really bother me. This DOES :

how can you justify having ex painters, refurbishers and MT mechanics certifying aircraft after minimal training?

Most RMA holders HAVE done formal apprenticeships, probably like yourselves and some are using it as a stepping stone to licences, but to tar us all with that brush is unfair, you were once a technician (and soon will be again ;0)Everyone has to start somewhere and you lot seem to be forgetting that. You guys did sign our books and for that I am grateful, wouldn't you rather we signed for our own work,that way you wouldn't have to put your coats on ! (JOKE)
At the end of the day you are all grown up, and YOU have the choice to sign someones book, you can tell if that person is capable of signing for their 21 items and most of you are quite happy for them to sign for a ramp check. Why should we do our licences when there is no incentive ?

[spannersatcx]

Now that YOU have just tarred us all with the same brush!!! Why don't you get off your 'arse' as you put it and get your Licences? There you go now you have an incentive!

[Bus429]

Knuckle,

Think about it this way - are you being paid enough for the liability you assume when signing for your limited tasks? No licence does not necessarily mean no liability - a CRS is a CRS whether signing a Daily or component replacement.



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Bus429 - the pilot's pal!

[Knuckle dragger]

In reply to the last mails, yes I may have slapped a few coats on, just look back at what you guys have said about RMA holders. In answer to incentives, If I stay with B.A why should I go for my B1 licence rather than keep my protected rights under RMA or get an A licence. I'd get no more pay well maybe a few quid and from the sounds of the posts here you lot are getting SUCH a bad deal as LAEs why should I ?

[GotTheTshirt]

near-enuf,
As someone who lives and works in the US you have got it wrong.
Guys go and get an 'Acme School' A & P licence and then after a few months leave aviation and then get a job at Pizza Hut or Burger King because then can earn more money !!!
Sounds familiar eh!

[anawanahuanana]

I dont think we should be sitting here telling each other how bad we all are at our jobs! I hold a BMA (hangar version of RMA for those not in the know!) and i see some pretty scary things from other BMAs i work alongside. The fact is there are good and bad people doing the same jobs all over the world, in all industries. Everyone loves to moan about how little they get paid and how bad everything is at work, but its not that bad at all really is it? If it was, and you weren`t just moaning for the sake of it, you`d leave and do something else, if you really were truly unhappy. What i really want to know though is: if every engineer is so unhappy with everything, why do we never go on strike. Cabin crew do, flight crew threaten to if the winds blowing in the wrong direction! If we really wanted the top monkeys to see how important engineers were, we`d just not go to work. but we don`t. we keep turning up every day, allowing things to happen around us, and then moaning when we dont like the results. Typical british mentality im afraid, and it`ll never change.

[jetfueldrinker]

in respect to the last post, how much do cabin crew get paid? are most cabin crew female, and if so what do their other halfs get paid? What do flyers get paid? What do engineers get paid? Get my point? We cannot financially afford to go on strike.

[time-ex]

Chickens coming home to roost or what? My bestest mate tim-ing posted this thread 6 months ago and the reaction was muted. The cut-off date approaches, somebody reads the post, and Bingo. The cut off date is also the date that RMA holders will become online as the new age "engineers" in the front line of the Best Avoided airline as their day to day maintenance will be carried out by regraded personnel.
Engineers, even LWTR types, are running around trying to fill in their PER books to either get a licence or keep their grandfather rights under JAR 66.
I use the term engineers with gay abandon don't I, I'm in full knowledge that the real description of these guy's is at best technician and at worst, a fraudulent holder of a worthless qualification that has been devalued by the number of people who have obtained it by deception.
Why do I use this term engineers so freely? Well when the next smokey hole in the ground that due to aircraft engineering failiure occurs, the newspaper won't say an RMA guy screwed up will it. It will say an engineer screwed up and then who is being painted with the same brush. We wait and see don't we? I hope it never happens but I've been in this business long enough to know if it can happen eventually it will.

[WenWe]

Awanana etc.
Have you been out on strike in you time with Big Airways?
I have & I know from painful experience what little effect it can have.
When you know a bit more about your profesion, you will learn that most checks can be defered by 10%, & that 'managment' Engineers will come out of the woodwork to defer or 'NFF' any awkward defects.
Can you afford to be out the door for 1month+, & if your answer is yes - can your collegues with HUGE mortgages/kids do the same? 'cos this is the MIN time it will take to make an impact.
If you want an incentive to acheive a BCAR/JAR licence it should be obvious to you: How many guys do you work with that have made their fortune/had the time of their lives working abroad? Will another airline accept you with an BMA/RMA? Don't think so, their local guys have these already - they want 'experts', not more ****kickers!
Wake up & take a look at the world outside BA. , it might make you think!

[spanners]

I went on strike with Big Airways twice, and both times we were beaten in all the demands that were made. To rub salt into wounds, one of the industrial actions was over a colleague at a bigger base. They never then supported us on later issues. Great.
With 'friends' like that in the union there is no suprise that there is no unity.

[spannersatcx]

Don't think I've ever said here that I'm not happy, of course we'd all like more money, who wouldn't.

It sounds to me that the problem is with Big Airways and how they have DESKILLED, perhaps that's why I left them!
Pilots can really bring an airline to a grinding halt, it's difficult for Engineers to as like you say there are those behind a desk still holding tickets that are yes men and will do anything for the management and would s*** on their so called colleagues rather than ever help them.

[anawanahuanana]

Yes i do know how much fun it can be working overseas. my dad is an eng and i spent a long time travelling the world when i was younger. I fully intend to do the same. i also know how things have deteriorated in respect to knowlege levels at work. when i was still an apprentice i was carrying out ramp checks on my own and going back to the crew room to tell the cert that it was all ok and he could stamp the sheet. all im saying is you work to live, not live to work, and if youre not happy at work, go elsewhere until you are. maybe its all the long faces of the engineering staff that get us such a bad reputation amongst other members of staff?

[Daget]

How can we ever be respected in our job when some people publicly claim it to be easy. I expect people in Pizza Hut at least have the sense to say they work hard and do a good job instead of running themselves down!

It is true that a lot of us have stamped off PER books for the RMA and we should be ashamed of what we have done, we always complain about the way we are treated and then do everything the boss wants!

It is our knowledge of the whole A/C system we are working on that makes our decisions more than just changing a box but changing it for a reason and knowing what to do next when the box dosnt fix it.

If we get it wrong resulting in a loss of life will the court say just let him go he only changed a box or will we suddenly be a highly skilled person who is responsible for everything.

As for the unions they are not representing us we are a small group who and be thrown to lions everytime they want to get something for the RMA men.

[The Weasel]

To all those who have said that our job is no longer hard. Perhaps you have not seen the severe degree of maintenance violations that go on in some areas. OK so the physical and technical aspects of the job not beyond a mere 'technician's' capabilities. However,when you have to deal with a tech recording system which cannot tell you what has been done, when it was done and by whom, when you have company procedures which in some cases are absolute rubbish and in most cases overcomplicated and contradictory,when you have to wait indefinately for spares you order but still give a date your section of the aircraft wil be ready, when you have no tech suppoprt at weekends,when your managers refuse to get the aircraft cleaned for even detailed inspections,when your Quality dept admit your manager is a known cowboy but will not support you when going against him on a serious airworthiness issue,when you have to work with people who make every attempt to avoid certifying their work, or even doing any in some cases, when you have to fight the brown-noses off to prevent them signing off one of your serious defects as 'considered satis' when ,if you refuse to do a job because of lack of tooling etc the managers simply give it to night shift(who will do anything as long as they get away by 3am)and when you are considered a troublemaker for not going with the flow and cutting every corner expected of you...THAT is when the job gets hard.

[ragspanner]

Weasel I left One T@rd for many of the reasons you mention , my advice is walk or get down to some serious 'Grassing',CHIRPS,MOR et al!.

[This message has been edited by ragspanner (edited 14 March 2001).]

[wafu]

When BMA / RMA'S were introduced at BA I was totally against it. But as I started to watch the biggest skiver's in our hanger copy job cards in to their PER books and have them stampped by LAE's who couldn't be bothered to read the entries, and then go on to get the pay rises for holding a BMA the were not even using I realised the person my protesr was hurting was my pocket. So I sold-out and got my self a BMA. In the begining what we could do was limited, but bit by bit the company (with-out consultion) allowed us to do more and more. Then the same LAE's that had stampped our books in the first place started to question what we were doing. I still disagreed with the whole scheme, so I took the cowards way out and applied for an office job. As much as I miss working on aircraft, my protests at change failed, so I got out.
Don't blame the technicians for wanting more pay, blame the system that allowed it to happen

[Ali Crom]

Weasel , ever thought of changing your name to 'Doom & Gloom' or shall we split it & go half?
The situations you describe are now everyday occurances which to some , are just accepted as normal practice.
So the options left open to you are
1) leave the "world class" establishment ( should be " Third World class " ) , forfeiting your many years of seniority to start at the bottom of the ladder , only to find your new employers are a even bigger cowboys.
2) Grass 'em all up using alledged anonymous reporting schemes to find yourself treated like a case of Foot & Mouth or worse 3) adopt a 'if you can't beat them , join them ' attitude by becoming a shift manager or 4) Go for the complete identity/sex change operation & call yourself "Golden Winnit" ( or similar sounding name ).

Rgds AC. ;) ;) ;)

P.S Talking of things Golden , haven't heard much from GR recently . Could she still be sulking after being told to P#ss off on a previous thread?

[Knuckle dragger]

I'm not going to moan about LAE's or argue all night about RMA/BMA techs, at the end of the day we've all been shafted to a certain extent but at the end of the day we aren't going to do anything about it because everyone has their own reasons for doing what they do, yes there are some LAE's that'll sign anyones book,there are those that look nito it a bit deeper. In the same way,there are techs that are arseholes and did it for the money and thoses that did the RMA because it was a company recognised qualification, some of who regret it because of the way it is expanding.
But lets not forget the guys in the workshops, who up until recently were highly skill at what they do and have now found themselves in a position where they cannot get an RMA/BMA because of there work area and will be re-graded as mechanics. Before you ask, I'm not from workshops but you must admit, some of thoses guys can do jobs that most of us wouldn't even attempt.
Thats were fighting our own little corner won't work.
Enough Stabbing.

[spanners]

Daget:
"It is our knowledge of the whole A/C system we are working on that makes our decisions more than just changing a box but changing it for a reason and knowing what to do next when the box dosnt fix it."
Actually I disagree in some circumstances. Although knowledge of the a/c is required, the MM/ SRM take precedence and tasks are not done or reccomended to be done from memory. (Especially on something like the 777 where you cannot possibly remember everything.) The skill that an LAE possesses is good judgment along with technical knowledge AND interpretation of manuals. (Along with a bit of integrity)
If you get it wrong but have followed the procedures you will have a clear conscience.
Also given the fact that tooling may not be available could be a reason to cave in against good judgement. I always used to resist this and would not do the job until the equip listed in the MM was made available. If you dont and find a way around the job, it makes it worse for the next guy.
Cheers

[This message has been edited by spanners (edited 15 March 2001).]

[Golden Rivet]

Lard Arse

Just because I Have'nt posted much recently does'nt mean I'm not here !!!!!

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Fools rush in where Angels fear to tread

[This message has been edited by Golden Rivet (edited 15 March 2001).]

[Ali Crom]

Meeeeeeooooooow,
Lard Arse you say , I'll have you know that since giving up all that crap Sutcliffes keep serving , I'm a slimline , 32" waist now . Just ask the x1022 king for confirmation because he never lies .

So to continue the abuse I'll finish by saying that I always thought people who wear glasses looked intelligent , but you're the exception.

[This message has been edited by Ali Crom (edited 15 March 2001).]

[innocent bystander]

weasel, your saying things that were being said 30 years ago, things dont really change, they only appear to.we all moan about the job, it's a requirement for having a licence. we all talk about leaving but never do, airplanes are in our blood, i think it's a privilege to be a chosen one and to have a licence and being prepared to accept the responsibility for the safety of the pax and aircraft,and yes i'm proud to be a licenced engineer, after all said we all made our own descisions to become licenced, and i have never regretted it (well, only on a daily basis).sure you cant get tooling,spares etc, you get impossible deadlines, were all in the same tent, but thats the job were in, it,s never going to change, and as they say, life was't meant to be easy



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[The Weasel]

Innocent BS. I agree with you about doing the job for the love of it....after all it can't be for the large pay cheque can it?
As for moaning, I have been doing it for 1/4 century as well, but, up until recently our moaning has only gone as far as our seriously corrupt managers who would surely treat us to the sack if we took matters any further. I was hoping that this very website would help the regulators get a real idea of whats going on.I can only imagine that they work on the theory that no news is good news and their MOR 'In tray' is, to them, a real indication of the state of the industry.
If so then they are as sad as the HF exam questions they set us!
It does'nt stop there. Even though the regulators are such hippocrits that they examine (and charge) the living daylights out of us to test our knowledge and issue licences, but do nothing to support us in upholding those standards, we perhaps may find the national press reading this stuff. I'm sure that if serious 'maintenance violations' were aired in public by an over enthusiastic reporter, that would be more effective than our whole QA dept put together.
UK TV shows such programmes as 'Builders from hell'with a series to cover plumbers electricians car dealers and other such business enterprises. It clearly shows that a % of the population are nothing better than unconvicted criminals.Why oh Why do the aviation regulators think that maintenance organisations should be any different? The whole system is so infested with cowboys at least up to middle management.It does make you wonder if the people who write the legislation are doing so purely to make it easier to allocate blame in the event of a catastrophic incident(they don't seem interested in anything less), whilst knowing you do not have a hope in hell of sticking to it. The company management policy seems to be :those with the highest responsibility for safety have the least authority to get what we need to do the job,whilst those with the least knowledge have the most authority (to prevent us getting what we need).If you all need reminding how management regard gambling with safety, try the Challenger incident where the night before launch The MANAGER told the chief ENGINEER to take off his engineer's hat and put his managers hat on and agree that the seals (that the engineer had grave concerns about) were fit for flight. From a TV documentary several months ago. It cannot be stressed too highly that we have to keep up the pressure on cowboy managers to acheive compliance. We should never resort to accepting that our fate as engineers is to be treated like mugs by corrupt managers. Come on, we are better than that.

[This message has been edited by The Weasel (edited 18 March 2001).]

[Ali Crom]

Weasel , How refreshing to see that I'm not the only only one who holds such high regard for DER MANAGEMENT and talking of cowboys , our office now has a sign above the door saying " OK CORRAL " because some of the shift managers have the fastest stamps in the West.
It's a pity us Indians don't have any arrows to fire back , perhaps in the form of a hotline direct to the CAA Sheriff's office with guaranteed anonymity to report the violations that occur so frequently.
All that's needed is the occaisonal snap inspection of some of the paperwork without the prewarning & so , with a bit of delving with the clues they've been given , they're bound to come up trumps.

[spannerhead]

Theres no doubt that RMA's relieve the workload on LAE's. The LAE can get on with more serious matters without having to worry about the brake unit change or the boiler that wont brew. Just the paperwork side of things in my company often takes longer than the job. When I first joined my present employ, the RMA's had to carry out some of my tasks because I did not have electrical extension. I had full A & C inc ground run, boro etc but I couldn't certify a reading light change....the mechanic could?

[The Weasel]

G.R. I can confirm that Ali-Crom, AKA 'Lard Arse' STILL frequents Sutcliffe's emporium of Inedible toxic waste, but only to cover double shifts as he does'nt have a 'Long- haul' lunch box.....yet!

[Ali Crom]

So we may be slowly being replaced by RMA techs but not by BMA techs according to the latest Tech News bulletin.

As from the 1st June 2001 BMA holders may not:
a) carry out, detailed & special detailed inspections.
b) perform engine ground running.
c) issue a CRS
d) certify for mods & sp/chks.
e) certify either part of a dupe insp.
f) certify for boroscope insps.
g) certify for function & operational checks of a/c systems except cabin equip.
h) certify final clearances.
This list would appear to suggest that currently , BMA holders are authorised to carry out all the above items but for some strange reason the Quality Dept. have included 6 items which BMA holders have never been authorised to do prior to the 1st June deadline anyway. The only differences I can see is the removal of the Dupe insp & funct/op check privileges.
The "World's favorite" BMA technicians who are paid very well compared to other airlines now have a almost worthless qualification thanks to the introduction of JAR66 and now the LAEs are to be shafted again & given the extra privileges of the RMA/BMA for no reward.
The Unions must be laughing their nuts off.

[Blue Danube]

Is this RMA thing you are discussing anything like the JAR A Licence or is it just somthing BA have come up with?
Do any other airline operate a similar system.
I'm about to leave the RAF and will be looking for an aviation job and I don't want to end up being a "Jack of all trades master of none" having just spent the best part of 15 years as an avionic tech.
(By the way, yes I have Avionic Licences, not all of them but I've made a start!)