View Full Version : AIPA Reform

10th Aug 2005, 06:32
I have had a look at the AIPA reform list and it would seem that by and large it is made up of some very good, strong and sensible guys.

What I canít for the life of me figure out is:

What is it about IW and the COM?

Why does he attract so much flack from them??

I don't know him, but almost all of what I hear from the troops is very positive, but ask many COM members and there is an uneasy silence, and a little muttering under the breath.

What is most strange is that they donít seem to be able to tell you why they hate him, but they make it very clear that they do!!!

In my own little survey over the last two weeks, I have asked over 60 Pilots if theyÖ
1. Think IW should get life membership.
2. Think IW should be president.

Only had 1 person say no to both. Thatís over 98% in favour of both questions, a small sample, sure, but very impressive support.

So are these COM members that are anti IW, just completely out of touch, or is there a legit reason.

Does anyone have any idea what the @^$# is going on?????????????

Going Boeing
10th Aug 2005, 09:56
This is not a suitable venue for this discussion - try Qrewroom where you have to be upfront with your opinions.

10th Aug 2005, 11:39
Gb: Who appointed you the fun police?
This is a suitable venue. The truth is more likely to be posted here anonymously than on the other forum where all your cards must be shown and the fear of retribution is greater.

10th Aug 2005, 16:34
The truth is more likely to be posted here anonymously than on the other forum where all your cards must be shown and the fear of retribution is greater.

Yep, but the flip side is that on here, you get a lot more B/S sprouted as well- and no one actually has to take ownership of it. (Unless you're like me and most people in QF know who you are anyway :E ). We should always remember this little quote at the bottom of the page!

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.,

This means that a lot of the comments that this thread may attact would be from people carrying on just for the wind up. So, I reckon if you can't 'ante up' in Qrewroom and take ownership for it, PPRUNE ain't the place for what you've got to say! :ok:

10th Aug 2005, 19:14
Well lets give it a spin and see where it takes us anyway.

I've been wondering the very same thing, Speedy. Outwardly, the fellow seems to be larger than life, almost a miracle worker. To the COM, he is the antichrist. Why?

10th Aug 2005, 22:00
Could it be that most aspirants for trade union representation start with the best of intent but quickly see that AIPA is a fast track to a seat on mohogany row. Dissent is silenced with a word from the top. Maybe IW likes to rock boats, bless him !!

king oath
10th Aug 2005, 23:07

Spot on. Whenever I've taken up any day to day problem faced by the peons on the line, AIPA are only too happy to accept an answer from management that is obviously bullsh*t. While the average 7 year old can smell bullsh*t better than these guys ,you have to ask yourself are they more interested in their future career path or helping the members get problems solved.

10th Aug 2005, 23:53

I can and do ante up on Qrewroom, but this particular question is useless there. I have asked many COM members directly what it is about IW, but they cannot (or WILL not) come clean. They obfuscate on and on and on and onÖÖ.

If you can get a direct answer, let me know, but sure as shooting you are not going to get one on Qrewroom if I canít get one in a number of face to face conversations.

The fact that some responses here might be intentionally misleading is a fact I can live with. Although, given the very stark politics at play here I think anyone who knows anything about it could see straight through self serving answers in this particular case.

Anyway, back to the point:

A huge groundswell of support is gathering behind this group and its leader, and I confess that I am surely coming around to their way of thinking. Is COM just feeling threatened or is there more to it? Anyone?

11th Aug 2005, 00:10
Fair enough Speedy. That's a different way of looking at it I guess. I bet that if you're not going to get answers face to face though that they aren't going to arrive on PPRUNE either! ;) :}

Just one final comment though. There are a couple of names that although not formally part of the ARG would make quite suitable members of the COM. In a couple of cases they'll get a vote from me before some of the ARG guys.

Anyway, interesting times! :E

11th Aug 2005, 05:09
Speedy, the answer is a bit convoluted and hard to explain here without opening pandoras box. Suffice to say its somewhat based on jealousy intermixed with a few egos put out by the success of the said gentleman in other activities.

There is much more to the history than that however so I suggest you ask a few old timers who joined late 70's early 80's. In particular see if you can get an answer over a beer with one of the ex AIPA presidents who joined around the same time.

11th Aug 2005, 06:32
I think you only have to look at the web site to see why the COM don't like it.

They will
Not accept kickbacks
Operate on an inclusive basis
Communicate with the members
Accept communication from the members
Not use election as a shortcut to management
Have a track record and/or commitment
Have a nice website

www.reformaipa.com (http://www.reformaipa.com)

11th Aug 2005, 12:49
w.r.t bonvol's post...
The term "megolomaniac" has been bandied around amongst those alluded to in his post, from time to time

11th Aug 2005, 13:21
IW or not, it would be kind of nice to see some awareness in AIPA that they are part of the whole aviation industry and connect with other working pilots in other companies.

I have had a number of conversations with friends that fly the 737-800, the 767, the A330, the 747-400 that are watching with concern about what is happening at Jetstar, Virgin, NJS and the QLink regionals

Sure, AIPA's main issue is representing their members situation to their employer.

But how is AIPA going to deal with the fact that more and more QF passengers will board "QF" service that is contracted out?

So long as we compete amongst ourselves for the privilege to fly those pax, all our conditions will continue to slide.

Is it so hard to have a formal communication between AIPA and the AFAP and other pilot unions?

Coz fellas, you domestic FO's that might eye off a Hobart basing in a Jetstar 320, remember that even if you score a direct entry command, you will still be on less money than your right seat in the mainline -800, not even counting the 34k endorsement.

12th Aug 2005, 02:49
Stiffwing, I have heard similar statements from more than one COM member, but ask for further information, or examples and they canít or donít give them.

The true definition of the word is:

A psychopathological condition characterised by delusional fantasies of wealth, power, or omnipotence.

Now, from what I have observed I'm pretty sure he doesn't think he is Kerry Packer or God, so I assume that they think he has delusions of power.

This would have to mean that he has no power but THINKS he does.

Is this the case? From what he has written, and what he has publicly said at various public forums he seems to understand that presently he is but a cog in the wheel, almost humble, yet does stand up for what he believes. This hardly fits the definition.

So maybe they mean that he WANTS power? Well derÖ anyone who wants to be president of anything is striving for power within that organisation. But the important question is what does he want to do with that power?

Feel important rubbing shoulders with Dixon and the board? No, that would be the present Pres, he carried on like a blushing school girl and just about gave GD a blow job at the Jetstar SGM.

Write his own rosters and generally rort the system? No, that would be some members of the present COM.

Get a management job so that he can get even more power? No, he has signed a statement saying he will not seek or accept a management job in QF.

Wants to fix the numerous problems that he believes are there? Well, thatís what Iím hoping for.

Members of COM who donít want me and others to back this guy are going to have to convince us with a bit more than name calling.

Besides, given that they serve under the most arrogant president and executive in living AIPA memory, COM members calling IW a Megalomaniac is just a bit rich.

12th Aug 2005, 05:15
No idea why they don't like him, I've only heard very good things about him on the line, but after the Super debacle when AIPA disgracefully and childishly tried to oust him with a very big campaign for another member by sending out strongly worded leaflets endorsing their guy and rubbishing IW, they lost my confidence there and then! It was a waste of funds/time and smelled of 'jobs for the boys.' Funnily enough since then, communication on real issues from AIPA has been scarce.....
Of course IW was then voted in overwhelimingly and look what he's achieved. Good on him and the reform group, they have my vote.

12th Aug 2005, 06:30
And of course there is that time honoured Q practice. If they can't intimidate oposition, management (thru their AIPA lackeys) start a whisper campaign. We can't say what it was exactly, but i'm sure if you ask some older guys around in the '70's he did...... something....... really, really bad.

12th Aug 2005, 10:36

What you have just said is the reason I started this thread.

I have long suspected that this whispering campaign was BS orchestrated by those who are happy with the present junta that is AIPA. Any clear minded person can see that this so called union is under the complete control of the CP and to a lesser extent, the DCP.

Rather than just post that statement, I thought I would give these cowards one last chance to tell me just what the problem is.

I have asked the COM members personally, I have asked others in the know, I have now given them a chance to publish it anonymously, and still NOTHING.

By the way, I have added another 30 pilots to my survey and of those, 100% are in favour of my 2 questions. So the result is now 89 in favour and 1 against out of 90 surveyed.

Goodbye AIPA, Goodbye EBA 7, Hello reformed AIPA, Hello fair EBA result.

12th Aug 2005, 13:08
Hello individual contracts?

12th Aug 2005, 14:40
Hey, lest my comments be misinterpreted I'm on IW's and the reform groups side. Let bygones be bygones in this case. The possible reason no one wants to spill the beans is perhaps the events of the past did not reflect too well on all the protagonists.

As for the present, I can't stand most of the AIPA com. The sooner they are gone the better.

13th Aug 2005, 02:46

You sent me a PM and I was unable to reply since it said 'Otto2 has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages.'

13th Aug 2005, 12:37
I do not understand all this anger directed toward hard working COM members. These guys have been trying to represent the members the best way they can and have been stifled by the leadership.

YES...there needs to be change at AIPA, that is obvious. The change needs to be made at the top though. At the person whose leadership style has led to the current state of anger.....THE PRESIDENT!!

This reform group is dividing the current COM with the message it is pushing that the entire COM is in need of change. This is CRAP and will only end up with a factionalised union and petty infighting.

Qantas bosses are LOVING this stuff and laughing themselves silly. What a joke!!

A new President...........YES!!!

A divided union..........the beginning of the end.

Don't judge a bunch of guys just because they didn't give a bloke a $1000 gift certificate.

13th Aug 2005, 21:17
OK Shrags, if the COM elected the Pres, surely they can un-elect him.

13th Aug 2005, 23:32
Don't judge a bunch of guys just because they didn't give a bloke a $1000 gift certificate.

If the COM is there to represent the membership, why didn't they respect the obvious wishes of the membership? It's a simple question.

14th Aug 2005, 00:20

Life membership is there to honour those who contribute to AIPA the organisation. What this bloke has done is an absolute credit to him and his drive and passion on this issue.

He will not need to buy beers if I am around him at the bar. It is not a contribution to the organisation though! This is not sour grapes, he is rarely at COM meetings....check the attendances.

Also, speaking for myself, judging by the time and effort that this reform group has spent selling itself with aggresive posts on Qrewroom, websites and glossy hand-outs this is another well researched political stunt. This totally cheapens the point of this tribute of Life Membership. It is not about playing politics.

Direct the anger where it should be for all our sakes, not at the COM members but at the PRESIDENT.


YES, they can un-elect him and will do so during this years election. Thank God there are one year terms. It would have happened last year if there was a fresh face to vote for.

Capt Stabbin
14th Aug 2005, 00:57
Doubt that IW will have the numbers on COM to be elected Pres this year. It will probably go to MB. IW will have to wait till next years elections to have enough of his "party" on COM.

14th Aug 2005, 01:33

The COM voted in this president. The COM approved the EBA. The COM bowed on the Jetstar deal. The COM presided over the A330 debarcal (both pay/award and seniority). The COM is involved in the Whispering Campaign against IW.

Forget the life membership, that is only a small example of the COM's inability to listen, but petty regardless.

Now, just to be clear, by the COM I mean the COM as a body. Of course there are individuals, within the COM, that are excellent. They cannot be heard for all the fools. I hope that is what will change if this reform group can get up.

If COM members up for reelection (who are not part of the official reform group) want my vote then they will have to make it clear that they:

- Will not reelect RH.
- Did not recommend the EBA.
- Fought for a better deal re Jetstar.
- Would vote for IW to be president.

I will check the AIPA website, and the Qrewroom election soap box prior to voting to see who else I can add to my vote list.