easy Lowcost Mismanagement on a grand scale

[A Tree]

Ex non-exec director Colin Day has learned a valuable lesson in how the web.s favorite airline works or rather how it doesn,t. Mismanagement on a grand scale is sadly nothing new to those of us who have been working here for some time now. He should think himself lucky from being given the big clue before he actually committed himself to te role of CEO, relacing our old friend and colleague Ray. Yes good old Ray how we will miss him. The man who was roundly booed by the assembled audience at Stelios,s leaving party at the RAF Museum in N. London a couple of years back when Sir Colin Chandler joined the gang. The man who thinks that staff travel is a waste of money and has done as little as possible to allow it happen in EZY.

But when considering this bungling by the board, let us not forget that there has been horrible waste and mismanagement at lower levels of the busness too sadly. Let,s cast our minds back to the Carmen Rostering Fiasco, was it realy only 3 years ago when the clowns in easyLnd deided to launch their secret weaon upon an unsuspectng workforce. Within one week all was chaos and a summer of madness comenced, the like of which we had seen before unfortunately.

And before that we had the issue of the useless Head Up Display units fitted to all the B737-300 33V models. Brilliant! Only $245,000 a pop and never ever used, complete waste of money. But then the ordering of the -700 fleet left a lot to be desired shortly afterwards when they were ordered at an insufficient Zero Fuel Weight and several $million later was paid to Seattle for the privilege of the paperwork so that they could actually carry passengers.

Hey and what do we see now with the A319 delivery? 156 seats and all f a sudden the airlie middle mismanagers are surprised when they hear that the law states that 4 CC must be carried on very flight. Did nobody in easyLand think to ask one the pilots who work there (who had done an aviation law exam) what the law says about cabin crew complement versus nuber of sets (not # of Pax onboard) ? So now the airline carries a crewing liability that was never planned for al due to bungling incompetence as usual.

And more recently still we have had another joke "Come On Lets Fly"whch all the peeps n wasteLand think is great and which has absolutely nil effet with us crews on the line. In LTN they are all realy excited about it, but its just a marketing slogan and not a very good one at that. The TV ads were a complete waste as they were unfocussed and didnt get over the brand in a strong enough way. The message to the customers was not there and unless you were an expert on airline uniforms you would have been hard pushed to know which airline it was.

Meanwhie our Terms & Conditions as employees are being steadily eroded while we work harder than ever before. Very soon we shall see us paying for our own recurrent sims, SEP courses, that joke of a CRM day with the little man with the inversely proportional ego (who by the way believes that ALL 60+ pilots are incompetent duffers) whereas he as a medico can carry on working till he,s 80!

Tony Illsley made a good move to leave when he did. He,s seen the writing on the wall and now Colin Day hs voted with his feet. The rel tragedy is that the whole rganisation is riddled with a sickness for which there is no cure and no amount of straplines and clever marketing strtegies will save it. Ryanair is ging to eat us alive and tht,s all there is to it.

Believe me when I say the end is nigh!

[rubik101]

Hey, Tree, you should read your missive before you post it to check for all those simple spelling errors.
Those totally useless and expensive HUDs are a complete waste of money and if I hit my head on one again soon I will remove it myself, with the crash axe!
I have also wondered quite what the 'Come on Let's Fly' is all about. Anyone else know?

[flying scotsman]

I would tend to disagree with the doom and gloom assessement of A tree. although it does reflect the view of many of the guys I meet on the line from various bases.

the business model is good (IMHO) but the delivery, presentation, public perception, and the obvious effects of low crew morale let it down.

generally people get what they want out of it. most folks I know in easy are there because it offers 'one' particular thing they need be it hours, a quick-ish jet command or home base. It's certainly not BA or southwest, nobody is there for love.

but if the managers continue to screw the nut to try and save every penny then they are simply doing their job. it is unrealsitic to expect airline leading packages for crew from an airline dedicated to the lowest common denominator when it cones to cost.

like it or not we are like ships captains and train drivers in times gone by, at one stage everybody wanted to be one of those because it was the cutting edge, new technology and exciting. now air transport is generic, common and a means to an end. it's far sexier to run your own programming agency.

like doctors nurses and dentists we are a vocational career. some will make the big bucks but most will plod along comfortably. it is silly to blame this on easyjet or any other Lo-Co. when you're package drops to a level you feel does not warrant your continued participation then leave. But having had some involvement in these things before I'm actually quite impressed with the way easy is run.............some obvious shockers when it comes to mistakes but some pretty good points too.


now running for cover.............
:uhoh:

[veryEZYboy]

what is "come on, let's fly" about

"come on, let's fly" is the biggest bunch of bulls*@t around and yet another excuse to waste money. The big brains in easyland probably thought about the TV series "Airline" and the opening theme tune "come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away" but obviously you can't put that on the side of a plane.
Then they try and come up with a meaning for the phrase. "come on, let's fly is about delivering a consistent experience to our customers blah blah blah" "Over 100 come on, let's fly ambassadors will be spreading the word internally blah blah blah" BULLS*@T, I have not had one "ambassador" tell me anything about consistent experience since they came up with that piece of crap. All I ever hear is how much everyone wants to leave, how they are being worked to the bone every month with ridiculously long sector combinations.

This company has changed so much and doesn't know how the get itself out of the vicious circles that it finds itself in. For example so many people are leaving because from day one they are worked liked dogs, but the company has to work us like dogs because so many people are leaving. Catch 22 me thinks!

Rant over.

[MarkD]

Didn't the Easy 319s come with 320 c/sections to allow 156 instead of 149?

[Mr Ree]

No, just 20 inch seat pitch!;)

[jumpseater]

And in the past year the share price has dropped from about £1.20 to £2.70, an absolutely appaling performance! Those investors must be shaking in their boots!:ok: A pity Mr Tree is unable to tell us how the 'end' will come! The rest of his post was so informative with loads of new information for us to digest!

[Muzza]

HUD would have been a bloody useful bit of kit....circling Krakow 07 / Ciampino 33 ..great pity that the Committee Against Aviation would not allow its certification in the UK. Not the fault of the individual / s who suggested and ordered it. Just a backward looking regulator who can't see the extension of technology, and its successs in other parts of the world. Are we so different ?..

How did she get, and keep that job?.

[FlyingOrange]

I think what A Tree is trying to do is put across the fustration that it felt at the coal face by the crew on a daily basis.

Our so called managers in the Orange Office at LTN seem to have little idea of life at the bases, the decisions they are making are ... clueless!!

A Tree does have some valid points;

COLF ..... biggest waste of 3million I've ever seen. LTN office folk running about producing lots of crap, telling us how we should be doing things ... but were all ready are, and have been all along.

The 156 seat 319 .... mmm 1 extra crew for 6 pax, how often do we fly that full ... how much for the extra crew? Now I see that it looks like were going down to 150 ... but instead of moving the seats and make a marketing ploy of the legroom we just take the cushions of 2 rows!!

T&C's .... well Staff Travel for one.

The 5254 fiasco, all brought in with misguided truths ..... now crews knackered. After 5 earlies I'm a Zombie, 5 Lates I'm a Zombie ... on my 2 days rest I'm a Zombie .... it was described to me the other day as 12 on 4 off, an apt view. Then every month we have to read those rostering letter's, how does he write so much crap .... the guys at KLM UK were right about him. Do they know the amount of reports going direct to the CAA and CHIRP's ... because most of us don't trust our own managers to deal with it. Even last week at LGW our Base Capt told us how wonderful 5254 was in an e-mail even because crews were complaining it to him ... does he listen?

But I do think that if we get the right managers we can go forward .... As RW leaves can he take his young, fan club from LTN and get some folk in with brains rather than stupid smiles and 'Yes, Ray' attitudes.

We are not low cost, Ryanair is, but we do have a great brand name that is known. So lets take this airline forward.

Realise ... crews are important and need to be retained ... its no longer a small airline, where crews can be 'burnt out and replaced' RW comment.
Get some real managers. Start at LTN, most depts ... work down to bases ... the office in LGW will be empty!!

[Maude Charlee]

Ryanair is never going to eat anyone alive - stop kidding yourself. MOL is aviation's Gerald Ratner and his big gob is a ticking timebomb to financial meltdown.

tick, tock..........tick, tock............:E

If you think his grass is greener, then it's only because it's knee deep in bullsh1t.

[FlapsOne]

If you hate it so much, why don't you leave?

.......just a thought!

[veryEZYboy]

You should see the amount of people that are leaving. It's ridiculous. easyJet needs to do more to hold on to it's employees.

[Orange In Cider]

Whilst I'm not quite so doom and gloom as A Tree, he has some very valid points.

The Carmen fiasco 3 years ago was exactly that....a fiasco. I am well aware of a number of people close to me who tried to sound the alarm before it was introduced, but were not listened to. They listened to the marketing hype without considering some of the key operational elements. Looked great on paper though ;-)

Come On Let's Fly....what a complete load of Cr@p. Was involved in elements of this from the start, and embarrassed to admit that. Was a half-baked idea, and the wrong people in charge. The team that was formed to roll it out had difficulty understanding what it was supposed to mean, or to get excited about it, so how the hell were they meant to convince the rest of the company? Only saw the TV ad twice then it disappeared...complete waste!

Staff morale....definitely not the place it used to be. I agree with the "if you don't like it, then leave" comments. A lot of very good people have done exactly that! Those that haven't left can only work at this pace, while feeling for unappreciated, for a finite period.

Great business model, albeit with a few deviations here and there.

Will Ryanair swallow easyJet up? No, don't think so, and personally I believe the eJ business model to be the stronger in the long term. I guess it depends on which one is more bent on self-destruction.

[Mr Ree]

During the carmen debacle I met Ray in the orangery thingy cafe, and we got talking about life on the line. He genuinely looked absolutely gobsmacked when I told him what was really going on. I got the distinct impression that he was being fed a totally different story by his deputees. And that still appears to be the case today.
There seems to be so much mis-truths told to keep the lie going. I have to agree that these rostering letters we get are just beyond belief. No one likes being knackered all the time so don't bother telling us how much we like the 5254. WE DON'T! And if another crewing officer tells me that yet another change "is OK 'cos it's legal" despite the fact that I'll be a zombie at work I....aaaargh.
And yet it's the same story.."Ah, yes, but we don't act on hearsay, no one has complained officially about 5254 so it is much better than before."
It's a mad house and the lunatics are running the show.
But, I've conditioned myself that it's all normal and that I love it!:ok:

[Orange In Cider]

Mr Ree,

You are right. You only have to look at who the operational directors were at the time, and Ray would never have got the full story...just the BS!

However, the reason for that is his management style. I've been there, and you tell him what he wants to hear!

[Meeb]

HUD would have been a bloody useful bit of kit....circling Krakow 07 / Ciampino 33 ..great pity that the Committee Against Aviation would not allow its certification in the UK. Not the fault of the individual / s who suggested and ordered it.

Would it not have been an idea to check first with the regulator as to its likely acceptance? Seems like inept management to me, but then again, show me good airline management, in any company, and I'll arrange a meeting with Elvis for you... ;)

[Doors to Automatic]

Cheer up! You could be at BMI or worse still, BMI baby where the management hasn't a clue what it's doing or where it should be flying next! Instead doing everything in its power to turn what it has into a complete dog's dinner!

[PAXboy]

Non-airline person talking. What you describe is exactly the same process that 99% of commercial companies are going through. No one is spared because the driving forces are the same. It is no comfort but you are not alone. The difference, of course, is that lives are at stake but nothing much changes in this world until people die. One can but try and ensure that it is not you.

Secondly, I would give EZY the edge of RYR because Ryan is based on a single man, whereas easy is a company. The same problem faces News International when Murdoch dies - can anyone run it as well as him? I suggest not. Stelios (like Branson) understands that their strength is to start something and then let others run it.

[jabird]

Paxboy,

I would suggest taking a look at FRs other senior executives, and you will find quite a few MOL "actalikes" amongst them!

MOL has created the Ryanair today, but the airline is still Ryanair, not MOLair, or as some might say in French, MOlair'est.

Maude, Ratner has made perhaps the single most famous quote in business history, but he has also since bounced back to run a multimillion dollar turnover online jewellers (which is also profitable iirc).

MOL makes "gaffes" pretty much every day, but if they are really that bad, the board or shareholders would have kicked him off long ago.

Find me a company with more than one employee which doesn't have its own internal politics. In fact, looking at some of the characters who have set up airlines in the past, who needs employees for internal conflict?

[LTNman]

Ten years ago easyjet was launched with just 2 aircraft flying internal routes. Ten years later they now have around 114 aircraft flying all over Europe. Seems to me that management must be doing something right.

In every organisation there are going to be those people who are born moaners yet are too frightened to leave because they know how well they are doing but don’t like to admit it.

[Doug the Head]

Ten years ago easyjet was launched with just 2 aircraft flying internal routes. Ten years later they now have around 114 aircraft flying all over Europe. Seems to me that management must be doing something right.

True LTNman, but now EZY seems to be missing the boat(s) big time! Germanwings has opened a base in SXF and recently announced another base in HAM.

The competition (Germanwings, Wizzair, Air Europe, SkyEurope) is catching up very quickly and EZY does not seem to be able to expand in important growth markets as Spain, France and Scandinavia.

You´re correct, EZY started very well indeed, but now seems to be running out of steam (i.e. motivated crew/competent managment) to continue the expansion.

Since joining EZY, I always get the impression that EZY is too focused on the UK market and is neglecting the point to point intra-European market.

[Doors to Automatic]

What's wrong with that? UK is a big market and it is also where the airline is based. Can you imagine a Germanwings hub in Liverpool or a Wizzair base in Newcastle?

Also in this industy big is not necessarily an indicator of success. Look at Delta - 5-6 times as many planes as EasyJet but losing $1000m per quarter!

[Tallbloke]

What is wrong with a German airline having a hub in the UK? Easy do it on the continent, Ryanair have been doing it in the UK for years (being an Irish airline, not a British one). Yes the UK is a big market, but the European market is much bigger, especially in those parts of Europe where train travel is not as easy.

[Doug the Head]

Spot on Tallbloke!

Look at Southwest Airlines in the States. They´re all over the country and not only in the southwestern part of the US.

Ryanair has most bases outside Ireland in markets like Belgium, Spain, Italy Scandinavia where EZY does not seem to get a foot in the door.

What's wrong with that? UK is a big market and it is also where the airline is based. That´s exactly the attitude I´m talking about... True, the UK market is very big, but it´s also very saturated with LoCost airlines. Besides that, the world/Europe does not stop at the UK shores. It only begins....

[unablereqnavperf]

If only Atree was running easyjet none us us would be knackerd we'd all be well rested sitting in the sunshine outside the dole office.

Yes there are a few problems at easy but they do get solved eventually and there have been a few howllers in the past, however some of the managment have learnt from old mistakes and a feel a little more confident that easyjet has a good future. Wether we want to be a part of it or not is the question we should ask ourselves sadly in my case after many years I need to move on, but only if my next job an improvment on easyjet. Only a complete fool would think that Ryanair is the hooly grail, if you don't like it at easy you may as well cross off any low cost operator as a potential employer as the only differance is the colours on the tail of their aircraft. Further more this type of airline is on the increase so perhaps Atree and his fellow bitchers should consider an alternative career!

As for 5/2/5/4 all I can say is I told you so!
I was one of the greatest critics of this crap system during the trial and now you got what you voted for!
If you are not a BALPA member then you've got no less than you deserve, because if you were a member you would have had the chance to vote it out !

Stop bitching and leave if your not happy!

[Doors to Automatic]

I wasn't suggesting that a German carrier would not base in the UK - All I was saying is that it is easier for a carrier to operate hubs in it's home country. Even so, Easyjet does have bases in Berlin, Dortmund, Basle, Barcelona and Geneva. Hardly "no presence".

[Rocket Ron]

Certainly at STN easyJet have let Ryanair take over; over 40 aircraft against easy's 13, rumoured to be reducing to 11 over the winter. In GO days there were 18 aircraft here.

Icelandair have increased their stake to 13.01% - maybe part of the reason that so many directors are deploying their golden parachutes...

[Stu Bigzorst]

The problem at eJ is this:

10 years ago, eJ slapped a pie in the large carriers faces. A lean team of motivated people set about providing an efficient service that was going to be "cheap and cheerful". Kind of like SWA. There was a phone number down the side of the aircraft, the cabin crew looked basic, we flew to main airports, and the training (safety) was excellent.

This formula worked very well.

Trouble is, now eJ is the big airline waiting for a face/pie moment.

The management are trying to continue this original philosophy when the competition is 10 years more modern. The aircraft are the same as everyone else's, the girls now look cheap, the crew are worked to death and fed constant BS, and the management are busy in working groups or steering committees producing the worst business jargon I have had the displeasure to read.

The company has a good business model (cheap flights to proper airports) but it will fail to keep the lead unless it provides more than the others for a bargain price. So it needs to sharpen up the look and feel of the service (happy, well dressed crew would be a start) and it should try to avoid crew problems (fatigue, grumpiness, moving-on) by making a workable roster. If SWA can keep their crews happy, loyal and hard working (and reap the benefits) then why can't we?

Crews are treated very poorly at eJ. Try asking for a day off (I've never succeeded), we are never ever thanked for those moments where we really go the extra mile, and we're not even allowed to sit on empty seats on our own aircraft. We are low life! (Here's another good example - a CPT was positioned in a chartered light twin because 2 CPTs on days off would not work those days off. Why? Because the only offer of remuneration was another day off instead. Both CPTs had had requested days off rejected recently, so both said "no thanks". If eJ had offered a few hundred quid they'd have done it, but they'd rather go to the vast expense of chartering a twin than paying a penny or two to flight crew.)

I think the reason for some of the grumbling here is because many of us think that eJ is so nearly a good company, but is dramatically spoiled by a few foolish individuals and their policies. You can either complain and try to make it better, or just walk. The irony and shame is that noone in command can can see this.

Stu

[girtbar]

Have to agree about no thanks been given when you work into discretion.

The company would rather they rewarded the cabin crew with a £20 voucher if they get an extra 12 pence per pax on sales than, reward the crew when they save the comapny thousands in hotel bills and charter flights, by working into discretion.

Where are the priorities?!

[Doors to Automatic]

If there are any easyJet management reading this please accept some well-intentioned advice from a frequent flyer:

1. Your free seating policy is a mess. Boarding becomes a riot at every "B-end" airport where the local handlers do not observe the boarding by priority number policy. As a result of the boarding gate being opened without announcement a scrum occurs between passengers with valid early priority numbers and those not used to the system who think they are pushing in. Absolute mayhem often ensues.

2. Introduce allocated seating thereby getting rid of this mess once and for all and tempting people like me back onto your airline.

IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE!!!!!!

[Stu Bigzorst]

Doors to Auto,

I'm very sorry to have to report that this suggestion has been put forward by crew many times to our "Step Change" team. It has been rejected every time, and their word is now final - rejected.

It's a tragic shame - it is one of the ways we could improve the service, but they are not astute enough to spot this.

WE NEED TO SUPPLY A BA-STYLE SERVICE AT EASYJET PRICES. This would be a winning solution. Wipe the floor with BA and FR - and it's not impossible. Nice uniforms, allocated seating, flexible tickets, happy faces from willing crew....

I guess, and I am guessing now, that the thinking is:

Ryanair have free seating, Ryanair make a profit. So we must have free seating to make a profit. :(

Stu

[Doors to Automatic]

Doesn't surprise me Stu. Airline management often thinks they have nothing left to learn even well after the preverbial pie has landed slap bang in their face!

Take it from me, a 600-sector plus veteran, it is the ONLY thing which stops me flying easyJet. They are losing thousands per year as a result of only one passenger as a direct result of this half-baked policy!

[Tallbloke]

Would you fly with them if passengers were boarded as per their boarding number? Surely the solution is to solve the problem with staff not respecting boarding numbers? Free boarding is part of easy's business model, there is no reason it should not work properly.

[Stu Bigzorst]

Tallbloke,

When at "proper" airports, PAX are held in a pen (by number). This is unpleasant.

When at other airports, buses are used. This results in a running scrum for the aircraft. People push, shove, shout and generally get upset about getting on and finding seats together. This is very unpleasant.

Many business pax just can't be bothered with this.

As I've said, to get better we need to tweak our model to suit modern times.

Stu

[Doors to Automatic]

Tallbloke - It would be a start but I would still prefer assigned seating as a business traveller.

Now that airlines have to issue paper boarding passes (the plastic re-usable ones are a thing of the past) it wouldn't even cost any more. And to say that free seating speeds up boarding is codswallop.

In the old days easyJet was a LOT cheaper than everyone else one would put up with it but not anymore. IMHO they really need to address this more than any other part of their business model.

As both a very frequent business traveller and an aviation consultant I would hope that I know what I am talking about on this issue.

Stu - well said!

[Tallbloke]

I thought free boarding was supposed to speed up check-in and encourage early check-in, not improve turnaround time.

I understand what happens with EZ, FR etc. flights and personally I prefer preassigned seating but the point is that obviously EZ think that most people are less discerning.

[Sensible]

I really don't understand what all the fuss is about. I fley Easy from Gatwick to Cork recently for the first time. I found it an absolute superb service. Loading was in batches of first arrived, first seated And the price? how do they do it? And, I didn't notice any staff shortages so there didn't appear to be problems in that department either. So what is all the sour grapes about? Beats me!

Only negative comment is that the cabin crew uniforms looked a bit naff, looked more like lifeboat crew than cabin crew!

[Orange In Cider]

I totally agree that from a passenger / product perspective, allocated seating would be a huge step forward. However, eJ would need to be confident that the benefits would outweigh the 'costs' and operational implications:

Boarding via free-seating is quicker than allocated seating....I have worked with a number of carriers and have no doubts about that whatsoever. I agree it's not pretty, but it works.

Before you all shout and disagree with me, which you have the perfect right to do, consider not just the boarding time for the main mass of passengers who happen to be ready and waiting at the gate, but the TOTAL process until the last pax is seated and ready to go!

a) As soon as you allocate seats, passengers immediately adopt a "we've got time for another pint....they'll wait!!" attitude. The number of late/missing passengers at the gate increases hugely as there is no longer an incentive to get to the gate. I have been involved in a number of trials, and have operated both allocated and free-seating, and this is a huge factor in terms of overall punctuality.

b) Free-seating encourages earlier check-in. On average LoCo pax turn up earlier than 'traditional' pax in the same airport infrastructure. This better utilises your check-in resources as you can get 150 pax through 2 desks if passenger 'presentation' is encouraged in this way.

c) Earlier passenger arrival gives a greater average 'dwell time' in the shops, and greater 'spend per head' than 'traditional' pax. (Having to pay for catering on board also encourages more spending in the terminal.) This helps in negotiation of competitive airport rates, as the airport will factor in the retail revenue.


I agree that free-seating was the right approach in the early days, but they are undoubtedly losing business by continuing the policy now. However, a change to allocated seating would definitely have operational impacts, some of which are not immediately obvious.

[Rick Binson]

At LTN you're held in a pen and treated like cattle, made to stand for upwards of 20 minutes.

Everywhere else it's at the discretion of the handling staff who gets on first.

Where buses are used passengers with boarding card 1-30 who are first on the bus are normally last off the bus!

Where we use jetties (lots of continental airports) the first 20 people choose the first four rows and slow the boarding process right down.

Now the cabin crew are telling passengers to move right down the cabin to speed up boarding. Well if I'd checked in 2 hours before departure I'd tell them where to stuff their suggestion as it's free seating! The other latest wheeze they have is that if you're sitting in an aisle seat to move into the middle seat to speed up the process. Makes a mockery of free seating!

Boarding by allocated seating makes the process more flexible and more pleasant for the customer.

Instead of pens you can have seating areas. When boarding by jetty you can board the back 10 rows first. Boarding by buses or when there is no jetty tell passengers to board at the back or front...

It's not rocket science. As a passenger I find the whole process stressful and actively choose not to use eJ for personal travel even if the alternative is more expensive!

[PAXboy]

Boarding by allocated seating makes the process more flexible and more pleasant for the customer. Yes - if it is adheared to. But on MANY sectors that I take on mainlines with allocated - they also abandon the boarding by numbers process!

If eJ handling agents ignore the 1~30; 31~60 route and just open the gate, then so do mainlines. It is infuriating to know that you are in the last rows in Y and then have to scrimmage your way down the aisle as the front 25/45 rows try and stuff their oversized bags into the overheads!

The stupidest version of this is when you see all the Y pax of a 744 loaded one-at-a-time through a single door with no priority of rows. My presumption is that carriers are cutting back on gate staff. Also, gate staff know that pax are becoming ever more bl@@dy minded - whether they have pre-allocated seating or not!

So, back to eJ, what to do? I agree that free seating CAN work but it has to be controlled more strongly and that takes experienced staff and they cost money.

[Bumz_Rush]

The scrum was perhaps the major reason I looked to other carriers. Having spent 2 years up and down LTN-AGP.

I always got my prefered seating ex AGP.....not telling how.

Ex Luton, I waited in the lounge (Reed Aviation, or whatever they are called this week), and walked to the gate...and took my seat....often in my fave seat....

If only they could solve that scrum problem, then customer satisfaction would be 101%......

After all I am sure 99% of the airports now have the technology...but it would take a few more mins at check in....I suspect.....

Unless you entered your seat preference in the booking procedure..then it is your time being wasted...if you dont want to try for a specific seat the computer can guess just as well as you can.....


On the subject of the exec lounge in LTN they now charge for the Internet.....wounder if anyone now uses it....I dont....but then lounge is better....

My invoice is in the post.....Bumz

[LTNman]

On the subject of the exec lounge in LTN they now charge for the Internet.....

Not according to their updated website

http://www.london-luton.co.uk/en/content.asp?area=2&id=233

Executive Lounge

For the busy executive, we offer free internet access, pay telephone and fax services.

[PAXboy]

(following the diversion) The last time I was in that lounge, the Net service was out of service anyway. If only they could keep the wretched TV volume down ... :*

[Final 3 Greens]

DTA

I could not agree with you more.

In an average year, I fly about 90 segments and eJ used to have about 30-35 of them.

After becoming sick of the scrums, being left stranded in Spain (yes, I know that canx is in the t&cs), suffering three long delays at EDI (one 5 hours) and then being charged GBP170 for a one way to AMS and being told by an FA to hurry up and sit down, so they could keep fares low, I decided that enough was enough.

And the funny thing is that my spend on tickets has not gone up - that tells you something about this so called low cost airline.

Low cost and service, but high fare would be the words that I'd use.

[Doors to Automatic]

Final 3 Greens

Same here - I now tend to use BA or KL from Birmingham. I can be walking through my front door within 50 mins of touchdown and the fares are only maybe 10-15% higher - sometimes less. I get allocated seating and food on board and a pleasant airport environment.

Any EJ management on this frequency - are you listening? Well you should be.

[22/04]

We make quite extensive use of U2 and believe that it is still ahead of FR in customer service - priority boarding, the aeroplanes are less tabloid etc.

However, we have just booked AB to DUs ex STN. Not only allocated seats, but for a smaall fee, I can reserve them on line when booking removing so much stress. What would it costU2 ( or is it costing AB) to do this?

[Comanche]

No company is perfect, mistakes are made everywhere. I have flown for Easyjet as flightdeck for over 2 years, both from an overcrewed and undercrewed base, and overall it is a very good company to work for and they are in a strong position to survive in the future.

I have a higher degree in Marketing Management, and I can tell you now that Easyjet do just about everything by the Marketing book, which is very rare. Most companies completely ignore basic principles of marketing and then end up in those books as Case Studies how not to do it. Easyjet KNOW their Strenghts & Weaknesses, they are well aware of the Threats and Opportunities. They have continuously built on their strenghts (eg. economies of scale & branding) and are always trying eliminate weaknesses. I once saw a regional manager studying graphs of revenue per passenger & loads over a period when Thomson Fly started flying to assess impact. Trust me, only top companies like Unilever, P & G, Palmolive etc match this type of high quality marketing analysis and have the information systems to do so. Most companies even fail to define their mission and have no clue what Strategy means.

In my book, I give Easy the thumbs up.

[Superfly]

Hello Orange whingers, I have some news for you:

PETROLEUM ($/bbl)

Nymex Crude 64.90


THAT is a cause for concern, you don't like your job ? Don't worry. Soon we all get a bus driver course sponsored by JOB CENTER PLUS.

SF

[Rick Binson]

I agree Superfly and I can't see the price coming down now that we are in the peak oil years.

So what of the future of aviation?

Load factors in eJ are excellent. We use a system of yield management so if the price you're paying is high it's because a lot of seats have been sold. The more seats sold the higher the price.

So if prices are high then the route is ticking along nicely.

[bloggs2]

Commanche, never met an orange indian before :ok: You may be correct about all the management 101 stuff, but can they translate that knowledge into a tangible gain? Most of the crew don't seem to get what they are on about, and that is a communication problem. COLF, what was that really all about, it had no impact on the day to day part of the operation, which is the bit that makes the cash. What is the point of something like that if it doesn't impact at the sharp end of the business? Statistical taxi times to reduce taxi fuel? It has gone up for all of the places we fly to, why don't they just leave it at a reasonable standard figure and let the people who know (ie the crews) adjust it as required to a sensible figure. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Doesn't matter anyway, as Superfly pointed out all this stuff will become academic anyway. Once fuel costs increase to a sufficient level the low cost model is going to break down. Aviation will start shrinking dramatically as the cost of flying increases with the cost of fuel. Can't see people flying at the same frequency as now if they are paying £500 a trip. And that is going to leave a lot of companies with too many aircraft in a diminishing market with increasing costs. RW and the like have it about right, grab the cash while you can and run, this industry is going to change dramatically in the not too distant future, it is just a question of when not if.

[Few Cloudy]

The cabin crew has the right idea when they explain to the boarding pax "there is plenty of room at the back - if you keep walking back there we will be on our way on time / maker the slot / avoid delay etc." Nobody listens. This announcement should be made before boarding.

Trouble lies in the herd brains of the pax. No-one wants to go to the back - we`ll get there later won't we? Same reason they all stand up on arrival when the doors still are shut - they think they will be quicker.

So let`s issue tickets for the back seats and let the pax choose - you can board early if you take a back seat or if you want to wait you can sit at the front. In this way the intelligent guys get on first - go to the back and leave room for the herd guys coming later. Saves about 5 minutes boarding time.

FC.

[jabird]

FC,

Great idea, but how much "education" would be needed?

I'll always gladly go further back, as long as I can get my window seat, I don't care when I get off. 5 minutes really doesn't make that much difference, and you can usually play catch up by the time you get to baggage reclaim (or the car rental desk or airport station for that matter!).

Ditto for not renting cars with the airline's preferred partner for similar reasons - but who listened, they've sold us a cheap flight, so they must be the cheapest for all the add ons.

Pax get lectured enough though with all the other announcements, so none of this will happen. So I think Jet Blue's 34" pitch for the rear seats is a much more interesting idea, but I can't see that having much appeal either on the GLA to BFS run!

[rubik101]

I work for them but on any flight where there is an alternative, e.g. Berlin, I fly with the alternative, e.g. Air Berlin, as I did this morning.
Seat 16D, no scrum, no pushing, free newspaper, orange juice, tea and a bagguette. No loud and pushy PAs telling me to move along the bus please. In short, a pleasure.
Price btw, e67, e22 cheaper than the equivalent flight on eJ.

[Doors to Automatic]

That's exactly the point. Easyjet are no longer the cheapest carrier in the sky. There are many other carriers who do believe in customer service and are more competitively priced. Even so, EJ management still think they know best!

[rubik101]

As ej has no forum I suppose I might use this to air a few other thoughts. I'm sure these questions have been raised in the past but I must have missed them!
Why do eJ use CI of 17 when empirical evidence shows 35-45 to be the most cost effective, over ALL sector lengths. On a leg such as NEW to AGP the difference in flight time between 17 and 45 is around 8 minutes but the extra fuel burn is 100kg. Am I missing something here?
Why do we idiot 737 pilots insist on putting the Captain's Brief upright in the QRH stowage when it fits perfectly well when horizontally. That way it doesn't get chewed up by the trim wheel as it turns. ( I know the answer to that one by the way!!) And just what is in the Captain's Brief that is of any use to anyone?
Who works out our diversion fuel??? e.g. Distance between destination and div. 55nm Fuel plan 152nm. Also seen one of 78nm and 242nm!! Brilliant!
How difficult is it to put the RVSM check in the correct place? Out of STN we should do it at FL110! Brilliant! en route to CDG and a few other places we never even reach RVSM but there the check line sits at FL 240. Brilliant!
Good to know the same Management are so keen on saving money and running an efficient operation. Maybe they are too busy watching the progress of the COLF regime?
If anyone knows which forum we might put such questions, please let me know.

[Rocket Ron]

Rubik, easy does indeed have a forum but you have to pay Balpa subs to read it, which also entitles you to air your views to a more appropriate audience. :p

[rubik101]

'entitles', 'appropriate'.
I don't want or need anyone's entitlement to write here or anywhere else. As for appropriate, most of the posters here seem to know something about eJ and flying aerolpanes so why shouldn't I write here?
I was aking which pprune forum was more suitable.

[coopervane]

As the 300's are on there way out (one going to China this weekend) maybe the fleet changes will bring a few less moans!

Any airline = cockups and money wasting so don't think Easyjet is any exception!

My advise is to enjoy the flying, take the money and when u have had enough, move on to the next bunch of cowboys!

Look at the forums on here.....always the same moans and groans whoever u work for.

If you have reached the end of your tether then try something new...............you can earn more as a plumber these days!

Feeling brave? Think you can do it better? Launch your own low cost. That young lad who is launching Nexus has the right idea. Good luck to him and I wish him every success. It is a tightrope running an airline and as it grows you see what was the perfect model slipping into the mud as so called consultants bring in there ideas. You can't run it from a portacabin on your own !!!
(Although some still try!)

Enjoy the flying.....it's what u payed all that money to do. Don't get swallowed up with things you have no control over.............its called life!!!

Coop & Low Cost Bear

[bmibaby.com]

I have to agree with the forum members that have stated that non-allocated seating does encourage passengers to be at check-in or at the gate, or at least that's what I've witnessed at my local airport.

Many EasyJet passengers are frequent flyers with the airline, whether they're business people flying up to Edinburgh or Cologne or if they're second-home owners flying out to Malaga or Alicante. They know that if they want a good seat, they need to get to the airport early to check-in and get a low boarding number, which in turn gets them waiting at the gate ready to get onboard. This obviously means you aren't going to have to chase passengers up to the gate as people have a real incentive to be there early.

This isn't a particularly pleasant experience either for the passengers & for the gate staff. I've witnessed staff make as part of their announcements to get all passengers who don't have the correct priority boarding card number to remain seated & yet nobody listens, however, they do turn people away.

I can't understand why they don't make it more of a pleasant experience however. I recently took a couple of flights with Southwest out in the USA who have the same boarding procedures as EZY. They had a holding pen for each of the groups of passengers, but the staff kept passengers always informed, entertained by chatting whilst they waited for boarding to commence & generally provided a fun, friendly & relaxed atmopshere. Whilst I doubt the "professionals" at Circusair could do that from my local airport, I'm sure it can be done at others.

Onboard I agree that crew members should encourage people to move down the cabin. Remind passengers that perhaps at their destination they will be able to disembark using both the forward & rear doors to encourage people to sit at both ends of the cabin. With allocated seating, you can't tell people to keep moving back, because they're standing by their seat & stowing their luggage above them. This slows down boarding for everyone whilst onboard. Either way, with assigned or unassigned seating, there's going to be a lot of waiting & standing around.

I'm not sure what EasyJet is particularly like to work for. Everyone seems to be very nice (from both a pax perspective & also once informing them I'm crew also) and tend to be either brand new to the industry or having retired off of longhaul or BA to a quiter or more senior life.

I have to disagree with those who say the crew look shabby. I think the "new" uniforms that were introduced after the Go merger are a real improvement over the old ones. They're casual & bright which you'd expect from EasyJet and allow the crews on the flights I've been on to seem more relaxed than if they were having to wear a suit. In the book "Nuts" about Southwest, the author said SWA had attempted to get their cabin crews to wear traditional outfits and found that they were more inhibited & unable to provide the excellent & friendly atmosphere you expect from them. As a result they've gone back to a relaxed uniform. Personally, I think the t-shirt, shorts & sneakers are too relaxed, but I really like the attitude of their staff.

Either way, you seem to have a nice group of guys & girls on the floor, and any company is going to have a bad group of managers. I think the best way to overcome managers who seem to have their head up their a*se is to encourage them to "go back to the shop floor". I know that the president of JetBlue spends at least one day a month flying & also with their staff on the ground. It seems to give him a good idea of what life is like, and on more than one occasion I've thought that perhaps bmi should get their managers to do this more often.

[Bumz_Rush]

LTN man the web site shows the old lounge ..check the window...., and yes it was comp there......even if the right hand computer never worked correctly for over three years......Bumz

[LTNman]

They might be using an old photo but the website is the updated version which came out when the departure lounge went upstairs. You should send them an e-mail and complain that they lie.

[RAT 5]

Waste of time sending any messages to Customer Services. I've sent 2 e-mails via their own website; no reply. I sent a fax to their reception number; no reply. I've tried phoning, and eventually left a message to call back; no reply.

This, even when one of the messages was to suggest a constructive way to change their crappy boarding procedure, via a finger, into something less likely to cause pax rage before entering the aluminium tube, and more likely to secure an on time departure.

If this is the way they treat the reason for their existance, customers, what chance do their employees have?!?

[Final 3 Greens]

In this way the intelligent guys get on first - go to the back and .... get their kneck vibrated by the yaw damper :}

[7006 fan]

Come On Let's Fly.

A representation of the actions of Senior Management
OR
A representation of the staff wishes for Senior Management

:E

[outofsynch]

The easayjet forum is still there. Just not on menus.

It was removed due to lack of interest... i.e. everyone stopped using it in favour of intranet fora, and BALPA forum.

If you would like to see its return PM me and we can try to get it back.

[172driver]

This from a Pax point of view - I think EZY are doing a good job. I do about 70-90 sectors per year, mostly around Europe. The split is roughly 60:40 LoCos and traditionals. Being self employed/running my own small business means travel expenses count…. almost all these flights are for business. Amongst the LoCos, the split probably about 1/3 each on EZY, FR and AB, with the occasional other carrier thrown into the mix. On the trads it’s anything from BA to LH to IB to UA to SA, etc, etc. Around Europe it’s always Y class, intercont C whenever possible. Here a few observations:

a) Free seating. I personally don’t like it much – but don’t mind too much either. In fact, I more often get my favourite seat (I’m 6’2”, so guess which one that’ll be) on the LoCos then on the Trads. And no, I don’t check in 3 hours prior to departure ! The EZY model of ‘groups’ seems to work somewhat better and is definitively more humane than the FR 1-60 / 60 up (or whatever it is at the mo) system where you are, at least in STN are held in pens like sheet going to slaughter… A system that works quite well, though I’ve only tried it twice is the Virgin Express thing, where you can purchase a sort of ‘business class’ (well, that’s perhaps a bit too grand a name) with assigned seats and more legroom in the front of the cabin. EZY could really strike a marketing coup here if they indeed have to pull out a row on the 319s – for crying out loud, increase the legroom and shout about it !!!

b) Comparing the LoCos, I’d rank EZY first (tied with AB perhaps), FR a looooong way behind. I try to avoid them whenever I can, although I often have to go to some of the outlandish places they fly to (yes, really, there actually ARE people who have to go to Brescia, Pescara or Dinard !). The main reason is the CC (and to a lesser degree, the ground staff). While EZY CCs generally are quite cheerful and seem to know what they're doing, the FR ones are reminiscent of Aeroflot in its worst days. Generally surely, hardly any command of English, and obviously half braindead. Don’t know where they find them, but wouldn’t want an emergency with any of those…. Another BIG factor in favour of EZY is the carry-on luggage policy. This is bliss and sometimes makes me fly them even if they’re a bit more expensive (!!) than a Trad on the same route. Hanging around a baggage carousel is not my definition of fun…

c) Pros / Cons on LoCos and Trads? For me, other than the carry-on, the main pro of the LoCos is flexibility in ticketing. Although you can quite often fly cheaper on BA or IB or LX, you have to buy a return trip – and are then locked into the dates / times. Food ? Forget it, the stuff is inedible anyway, doesn’t really matter much which cabin you’re sitting in – and just look at what their ghastly stuff is currently doing to BA ! Brought low by ‘All Day Deli’ ? The End is nigh, let me tell you.

d) What could EZY do to improve customer satisfaction ? Speed security at STN (thank God, I hardly ever have to go to LTN) – but that’s probably outside their control. BAA, the people who run shopping malls disguised as airports, would never give a toss about the Pax in a month of Sundays. But that’s a different thread…

[Doug the Head]

Nice and objective post 172driver!

It´s good to hear that EZY is doing an OK job for the pax!

Personally I don´t think that this thread is about the product (although it would be nicer to see the CC dressed a little more elegantly!) or the good marketing name of easyJet but rather about the money squandering that goes on in EZY´s HQ in lovely Lutonstan...

Thinks like buying Airbusses with 156 seats (requiring a very expensive 4th CC), buying HUD´s without CAA approval, wrapping the PortaCabin Palace in a huge orange condom, converting UK 737 bases to Airbus because HQ has no clue where to base them despite a huge European market being out there...

As crew we are constantly pushed to save money and ´go the extra mile´ in order to save money and I think this thread is more about the frustration to see all the saved penny´s thrown out of the PortaCabin windows! :\

[05Prius]

As a passenger, the lack of assigned seating is the single unpleasant thing about flying easyJet. Though I appreciate the point about getting people to the gate and onboard quicker points, the checkin point is becoming growingly irrelevant with the intruduction of check-in kiosks at more airport. An even better move would be to allow people to pick their seats when making the booking.

They are way way ahead of Ryanair, Wizz, (defunct EUJet) but far behind the German outfirs such as Air Berlin, Dba and Germanwings. However that is quickly explained by a check in average fare levels.

[ou Trek dronkie]

Yep, I must agree with almost everything 172driver writes. I have made many sectors with EZY over the years and, generally, they are OK, even very, very good. Certainly, from the odd privileged visit to the flight deck (a while back of course), they were most impressive, efficient, confident and professional. On the four or five times when I have had a real bad do, I have written to them, because I think it is almost a sort of obligation to point out defects. As I have said elsewhere, if you do not tell them where they are going wrong, how shall they know ?

On each of the above occasions, I had a stupidly crass reply, late and written by someone who is obviously not as well educated as they should be when dealing with the public (their salary-payers, in fact). Each time they ignored my points and repeated the mindless mumble which passes for policy. Hopeless.

So, if you have a complaint, I strongly suggest you do not even bother to think about it. Rather save your time (= money) and avoid that stressed-out feeling.

The way the airline business is these days, they just want to get the pax' bucks and to hell with the rest.

old Traveller, disillusioned

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Went on my Hols on MYT ex BHX and paid for pre assigned seats, came back on EZY to EMA and although we got seats together there was nerve wrangling moments at the scrum at the Dep gate when the despatcher and bus arrived.
Wife (ex BA Cabin Crew) said next year we would go MYT both ways just to be sure of our seats and to avoid the scrum (or was it scum?).
:\

[Finman]

Although this is getting off the original thread...I work for FR and have worked for Sleazy. Boarding scrum for both is inhuman and as such I recently chose to fly BA to Italy for my holiday. BA website was next to useless, BA food was sh*te, cabin staff allowed baggage at feet of overwing exit despite the clear safety rules otherwise and hostie told me off for not arranging my rubbish to make her life easier. Nevertheless, would always travel with allocated seating - anything else is degrading. FR and Sleazy should both review their policy on this.

[Buster the Bear]

As a family man. RYR win every time.

You depart at close to the scheduled time and arrive probably sooner! RYR are singularly the only airline in my experience, that actually boards families first. Next year, my 2 year old will pay full price for her seat. No way will I risk the easy boarding mass brawl when flying with her!

The scrum that represents an easy departure is caveman like, whilst I was once a scrum half, I am not prepared to put my family through an easy gate departure, if I cannot book my seats, I will book Ryanair.....Every time!

I could write a superb column for a broadsheet about my HORRID experinces of easyJet at Geneva!

http://static.zsl.org/images/width150/bear-04-web-305.jpg

[jettesen]

the reason for this is that you are walking out on the apron near refuelling vehicles. U ain't allowed to use them at a petrol station, so why should an airport refulling station be different????


But I do believe that easyJet do have the best cabin crew by far of all the airlines lo-co and trad!!!! What are your opinions?

[In trim]

I agree that allocated seating is the passengers favourite, especially as a group or family.

Mike Jenvey - It makes no difference whether you are working on allocated or free-seating when trying to identify the missing 2 passengers. The system will give you the names whether you are looking for seats 34A/B or boarding pass numbers 125/126 ! Any difference or deficiency is down to the system itself.

........and the pax are much more likely to be still sitting in the bar on an allocated seating flight, than a free-seating option where they have a greater incentive to be at the gate in good time!