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cavortingcheetah
5th Aug 2005, 07:15
:) This from today's Times.

Transport



August 05, 2005

China and India lure pilots from West to plug gaps
By Angela Jameson, Industrial Correspondent



CHINESE airlines are rushing to recruit qualified European pilots to counter a potential shortfall of 8,000 pilots over the next ten years.
The challenge to European airlines is also coming from India as it scrambles to lure captains from the West.



China’s booming commercial aviation industry is taking off more rapidly than the country can train pilots, and so airlines are being allowed to recruit foreigners for the first time. At least 100 European pilots have been hired by Hainan Airlines, Shenzhen Airlines, Sichuan Airlines and Okay Airways, China’s first private operator, this year. More are expected.

Air travel in China has grown rapidly in the past ten years and the expansion is set to soar. Forecasters expect China, in the next two decades, to become the world’s second-largest aviation market after the US. Last year China’s major airlines carried 120 million passengers, a 38 per cent rise on 2003. About 145 new aircraft will be delivered this year and China confirmed a $6 billion (£3.3 billion) contract for 50 new Boeing 787 Dreamliners in June at the Paris air show.

Boeing estimates that China will need more than 2,400 new passenger and freight aircraft costing almost $200 billion over the next two decades.

It will need 55,000 pilots to fly them in the next 20 years and is investing heavily in training schools. However, qualified captains are needed in the short term. Many Europeans have considered working in China, but are put off by the poor pay and conditions.

China pays pilots $2,466 to $6,000 a month, against $8,000 in India and between $8,000 and $18,000 in the UK.

Frances Cooremans, managing director of Contractair, a UK-based supplier of flight crews that has sent captains to China, said: “The pilot shortage in China is drastic. However, there is a shortage of suitably qualified crews worldwide. To entice experienced crews they are going to have to compete with the booming Indian market, which is willing to offer good terms and conditions. Until China simplifies its entry requirements and looks to compete with financial packages on offer as in India, it will be hard to find crews willing to go.”

Bureaucracy hinders recruitment of foreign pilots, who still have to gain Chinese licences. There is also concern that accommodation and benefits, such as flights home, are not sufficient to lure Western pilots. Most of the foreigners flying in China have been recruited from South America and Eastern Europe.

India has also been forced to hire foreign pilots. Air India is understood to have grounded aircraft because of a shortage of pilots. Experts expect India to need up to 4,000 more pilots over the next five years and that training them will cost about $200 million.

Andrew Middleton, head of airline recruitment at Wynnwith Engineering, said: “Recruiting qualified captains is a problem for all major airlines at a time when soaring fuel prices are cutting into their profits.”

BEIJING REFORMS AIRLINE RULES


China pays pilots $2,466 to $6,000 a month, against $8,000 in India and between $8,000 and $18,000 in the UK.

China will start to deregulate civil aviation on August 15, government sources indicate. Domestic private investors will be able to invest in six local airlines but not the three largest airlines, Air China, China Eastern Airlines and China Southern Airlines.

____________________________________________________

Enjoy the prospect if you can tear yourself away from $18k per month here in Blighty.:hmm:

Fastmover321
5th Aug 2005, 07:43
Stumbled across this article related to the boom in Indian low cost airlines:

http://www.flightinternational.co.uk/Articles/2005/08/01/Navigation/256/200439/Executive+appointments+-+Indian+low-cost.html

For those of you employed at Deccan it is interesting to see that the head of operations for Ryanair at Stansted will be joining Deccan as Chief Operating Officer from Sept.

After many telephone calls from agents I am finally considering a move to this part of the world. The money seems quite good compared to some of the other ex-pat deals around and India seems like an OK place to live (at least for a year or so). Would like to know how things have gone for you guys that have been there a while?

Yarpy
5th Aug 2005, 09:15
From Todays Times:

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9077-1721972,00.html

Any comments on the following?
China pays pilots $2,466 to $6,000 a month, against $8,000 in India and between $8,000 and $18,000 in the UK.

Skybound330
5th Aug 2005, 11:54
Nevertheless, it is good news. Would like to go east but not typerated unfortunately.

AIRWAY
5th Aug 2005, 12:01
It’s good news for the industry, especially around Asia with so many start-ups, but the question is: can they survive :confused:

Hairy Chest
5th Aug 2005, 12:37
If god almighty managment can live and survive in India, Im sure us low life pilots can too !

two speed prop 3
5th Aug 2005, 12:46
About right isnt it!

rsoman
5th Aug 2005, 13:29
A few comments from some one who spent an year in UK recently and now back in India.

Daily Newspaper - £ 1 in UK - 2-3 pence in India. Dont expect too many tabloid style newspapers (Midday in BOM is atleast trying!). But international news coverage is good , mostly agency reports.

Cost of a 330 ml can of pepsi/coke - 25 pence

Airconditioned chauffeur driven hire car- (Hyundai Accent or similar) for a day (8 hours)-25-30 £ in India / UK - you know it better.
Long term deals are available at good rates

Self driven cars - avoid- law of the jungle applies especially in some cities like HYD where people have not heard of things like road rules. They are only familiar with road rage!

Local transport - Three wheeler "Bajaj's" gives a bone crunching ride with the added thrill of inhaling diesel/kerosene fumes from the exhaust of buses moving adjacent! However clean, non airconditioned , metered cabs are offered by many companies - typical fare in cities like BLR and HYD will be 2-3 £ for a ride of 10 kms.

Alcohol- Import restrictions have long since eased up. so most of the upmarket supermarkets like Foodworld stock the major brands - prices compare favorably with the west.

Rental for a reasonable upmarket 3 bedroom air-conditioned furnished apartment-600 £ to 800 £ in BOM - about 25% lesser in places like MAA and COK.

Cost of a sit down meal for two in a full service restaurant without beer/wine - 10-15 £ (non hotel restaurants )

TV- No licence fee/ Per month rental for cable TV-having CNN,BBC,Discovery,National Geographic,MTV
and a lot of other English channels - around 10-15 £ a month.

Mobile Phones - CDMA as well as GSM. Biggest CDMA player is Reliance but they do not have international roaming. Charges for both are extremely competitive and compare favorably with the west.

Dont expect standards of cleanliness to be similar to western level, especially with regard to public transport - although things are improving in major cities (BOM is an exception).

Entertainment/R & R options may be lesser in the southern cities but compensated by a lower cost of lving and a cleaner environment to cities like BOM.

Power cuts - scheduled and unscheduled ones occur with regular frequency. Most upmarket complexes have standby generators.


Availability of water can be a major problem in cities like MAA. However your apartment building society takes care of this for an additional fee of 10-20 £ a month.

Visits to the local tourist attractions - you may be charged 5 to 10 times more than the locals but please note that subsidising local nationals is not a policy followed in India alone..........! You dont have to pay more for train or long distance bus travel, but some airlines like Jet or Indian Airlines have a higher US$ fare for foreigners (but generally those with Indian work permits pay the Indian rate).


So things arent too bad! And dont forget the major advantage of being in India opposed to China - most people speak english, esp if you are inthe southern cities.

Cheerio and enjoy your time here if you decide to come over.

Any other questions feel free to PM me.

Skybound330
5th Aug 2005, 14:24
Thanks for sharing this info rsoman.
How about possibilities for non-typerated pilots but with some flying time on turboprops for example?

Capt Snooze
5th Aug 2005, 14:50
Related discussion going on in Far East, Asian & Indian forum.

26 New Startups this year!! (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=162303&perpage=15&pagenumber=5)


Snooze

Hairy Chest
5th Aug 2005, 15:44
Hey thks for the info, so what is spoken in Mumbai or New Delhi these two seem to be the aviation hubs.

Been to Mumbai a few times great nite life awsme babes :} .. for the single guys, some guy said MAS pilots went home with wives?

Care to eplain that !:confused:

facelac
11th Aug 2005, 07:14
Hello Olbie

Been here for 3 mth. and general impression good. You can have a fairly good lifestyle in BLR with or without family. On the plus side : Good city-life (shopping, food, nightlife), very good climate 25-30 celcius and little rain, friendly people / colleagues, many expats, lot of growth expected in aviation (and Deccan). On the downside is lousy rostering (that means none for the moment) and generally low ops/maint. support as could be expected from new operation. Judged on other contract-pilots that has decided to stay overall is good.

Rgds facelac