View Full Version : D/E Commands at Eagle

Cloud Cutter
4th Aug 2005, 05:50
The current ground course have all been given tentative start dates for full time positions (2 year bond).

They were also told that due to the huge amount of movement and possible fleet expansion (2 new aircraft in Feb) Eagle may soon have to consider taking on direct entry captains.

Looking at the current seniority list and lack of eligable F/Os I wouldn't be surprised.

4th Aug 2005, 07:40
Cloud........how successful has eagle been at attracting Ex-pats back?
Heard through the grapevine..that its been a bit of a fruitless exercise..i.e. getting interest from guys they dont really want.

4th Aug 2005, 07:54
Quick, somebody pm MOR:E :p

Just what he's been waiting for:ok:


Kaptin M
4th Aug 2005, 08:56
What a/c type?
Where are the basings?
What is the celery? :uhoh:

4th Aug 2005, 09:14
Oh god I can't believe it! Where's my CV...??? It's a miracle.

I'm not really satisfied though. I mean, I'm a training captain on a jet, so really they should take me on as a training captain (and buy some jets for me to train on). Sorry, I don't train on turboprops. Beneath me, you see.

Tell you what, I'll agree to work for them if they make sure that there are three hosties on my flight. Oh, and a First Officer that knows his place and doesn't interfere when I forget something.

Yes, this could be good... :p

Kaptin M

What is the celery?

The stuff you eat lots of before a medical...??? ;)

4th Aug 2005, 09:20
You mean you WERE a Training Captain on a jet!!:E

The old Flying Forehead might take an ole feller like you by surprise mate! At least you would be able to impart your generous knowledge to the great unwashed.

Kap M, bases are in regional centers, but, I guess you're probably not really interested;) :} There is a base in Blenheim, its only about 3 or so hours to Hanmer Springs.


4th Aug 2005, 11:08
Nope... still am one, it seems. Just off back to euroland to do some training on a short-term contract. The salary is about five times what an Eagle captain makes... and accommodation and transport is all supplied. And I have to fly a jet (more or less).

Yes, it's a rough life, back in the mother country... ;) :p

4th Aug 2005, 11:44
Any more rumours of another ground school shortly???

Oh, mor? Have they got auto pilots yet??? you only asked for hosties... :E

Kaptin M
4th Aug 2005, 12:47
Blenheim...3 hours from Hanmer???
That must be on a Massey Ferguson tractor on dismal day, Nosey!!

Hmmmmmmmm, slightly appealing.

Blenheim itself is not too bad a place to be based, if one were to be honest with oneself!

4th Aug 2005, 13:02
Kap, never driven it, let alone on a MF! Talk about a misery trip that would be! I know you like Hanmer, which is why I mentioned it to you. Blenheim is the biggest base Eagle has these days. Salary for a Captain would be on the order of 55K. I do stand to be corrected however.

MOR, thought you might want to stick around and share the knowledge and stir it up with the CAA:E Maybe when you get back eh?:p


Kaptin M
4th Aug 2005, 13:12
Thanks Nosey...."like" Hanmer.

I LOVE the place!!

In fact, I reckon the South Island of N.Z. is one of the best kept secrets in the whole World!!
A truly magic place. :ok:

Cloud Cutter
4th Aug 2005, 21:53

Yeah, not sure what sort of interest they're getting but there is deffinately some from the right sort of applicants - I think 3/10 of the last interview round were Aussies (some of them never been to NZ). A couple ex Mac_air I think. With the state of the regionals over there I think these guys have made a good move.

The next round of (F/O) interviews is at the end of the month. The ground course for this lot was scheduled for October, but due to the fast pace of current recruitment it has been rescheduled for mid September. I would anticipate calls going out in late Aug or early Sep for the next lot of interviews. Magic numbers for applicants - 1000 hrs (although even this is being overlooked in a few cases), and some multi IFR - anything over 150 is looking competitive.

Salary: Basic 1st year Captain untill 18/02/06: $46,000
Allowances: Depending on base: $6,000-10,000+ tax free.
(the highest salary currently contracted for would be Year 11 Capt in 2007: $70,237, C/T Allowance is $10,000)

4th Aug 2005, 22:52
thank you cloud cutter..you are a godsend for us desperados..waiting for a call..

..someone should give you your own forum..Eagle News or something:ok:

4th Aug 2005, 23:17
What sort of hours would they be looking for in a DEC? Are they likely to do fast upgrades as well?

Cloud Cutter
5th Aug 2005, 00:31

No worries, I was i your shoes not so long ago.


DEC Requirements (min from the FOM):

500 Hrs X/C
2000 TT
1000 Multi
12 Months Air Transport recommended

Keep in mind the facility for DEC hasn't been used for a while and it's still only a possibility.

Don't know about fast upgrades, the current min for promotion from within the company is 500 hours on company aircraft, 2000 hours total time. These are both flexible if no other suitable applicants exist but haven't heard of them being waved recently and I assume this is the reason for talk of DEC.

5th Aug 2005, 05:46
Theres still plenty of F/O's with ATPL requirements and i'm sure they would all take commands if the company was putting capts in the correct places and not just boosting numbers in bases that dont need it

I would think ALPA wouldn't be to happy about DE commands for reasons we all know. The only way it will happen is via the contract and only if NO F/O was even close to requirements.

More aircraft will only see more problems unfortunaly, i think we would be better off getting the crewing correct for 16 a/c before adding 2.

splat :ok:

5th Aug 2005, 09:39
I would think ALPA wouldn't be to happy about DE commands for reasons we all know. The only way it will happen is via the contract and only if NO F/O was even close to requirements.

Well, we'll see. There is at least an outside chance that ALPA will get in step with the real world... an airline like Eagle needs a solid base of experienced skippers, and if you have to hire a bunch of DE captains to get the experience base up, then that is what you do. Well, it is if you are committed to safety, and not some outdated, ill-conceived "seniority" system.

The idea that you protect the career progression of F/Os at any cost is out of the HR ark. Besides, those very F/Os will be the first to stab Eagle and the back, and head off to a bigger carrier.

The rest of the world realised, a, long time ago, that you need a stable core of experienced, committed captains in your company. If you have to hire them from outside, then that's what you do.

Not that many would probably want to go there for that sort of money, but still...

Kaptin M
6th Aug 2005, 21:52
Not that many would probably want to go there for that sort of money, but still... ..........but still, you can`t beat the LIFESTYLE! :ok:

7th Aug 2005, 03:25
Well it may look attractive if you are currently banging around the fleshpots of Asia, but it isn't quite so nice if you can't afford a half-reasonable house or a decent car... :p

Nice to retire to, I guess. Not nice if you have aspirations beyond the most basic living conditions.

Anyway, the last thing we want over here is a pile of deadbeat immigrants from the West Island taking Kiwi jobs. That is nearly as bad as Kiwis that have gone overseas and then come come. ALPA will have a thing or two to say about that!!! ;)

Cloud Cutter
7th Aug 2005, 04:55

I certainly agree with what you're saying. I was surprised to hear the talk of DECs. I can only see it happening if the current rate of progression continues for another 6 months or so. While there are F/O's with the ATPL requirements, there's not an abundance with decent experience (like yourself), and as MOR said there is a danger of thinning out the experience of captains just to satisfy the union.

I think you have to be vary carefull taking on inexperienced F/Os and upgrading them with less than 12 months service.

8th Aug 2005, 06:57
Look CLOUD/MOR i totally agree with you both and I'm sorry if my post came across defensive that wasn't what I was trying to do.

MOR I agree with hiring DE cpts and have actually agreed with you before on having good experience levels in a cockpit(oops very un PC of me FLIGHTDECK)!! All I was trying to say is that it will only take one person to say to APLA that there not happy and it will all go to custard.

Cloud, I also agree having co's upgrade to cpt inside 12months does mean that there maybe less experience in the plane but you must also remeber in years gone by it wasn't uncommon for co's to upgrade in 9 months!!! it just means that things will have to be monitored by the powers that be very closley to ensure all is running well.

I say give us regional jets and watch the exidous stop :}


8th Aug 2005, 11:22

Hey I didn't think you were being defensive, I thought you highlighted the shortcomings of NZALPA very well indeed!

As far as promoting inexperienced F/O's is concerned... it doesn't really matter how closely you monitor them (which you can't do, in any case). They will find their own way, but the one thing that they most need to do that safely... experience... is the one thing they don't have.

All will go swimmingly until one of these inexperienced captains screws up. History shows us that it is only a matter of time. And if you don't think it can happen... have a look through recent accident reports.

If you promote a guy that has only been in the right seat for nine months, you are handing command to a person who has almost certainly never seen a real emergency, or the inside of a CB, or, quite possibly, ever flown an approach to minima. Do you really want that experience level in charge of your family?

I don't. Give me a captain who has seen a lot of stuff before you promote him.

Cloud Cutter
8th Aug 2005, 21:41
or, quite possibly, ever flown an approach to minima
Ha, not likely. With some of the places we fly to, most will have done it by the end of their line training. That is one area where exposure is not limited - however I do agree with your sentiments MOR. If I was down the back (or in the right seat) when the shit hit the fan, I would like to know the captain has been around the block a couple of times.

I want a quick command as much as the next guy, but looking at the big picture, you have to be very carefull. On the other hand, the B1900 is a simple aircraft to operate (with no complicated automation to worry about :}), and pilots are well supported. With no end in sight for Air NZ hiring (approx 30 more pilots this year, and 60 next year), it will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

MOR, i would have thought the Line Manager position that was externaly advertised recently would have been your cup of tea. You would have to start on light twins but you could lobby for those RJs we all want.:}

9th Aug 2005, 00:50
Awww.... didn't even see it. You guys should have told me. It would have been a great opportunity to practice my CRM skills on you all... :}

Agree with you about the RJs too. They operate quite happily in the UK, on short (30-40 min) sectors and in a low-cost environment. Much better for the pax too.

Trouble is, you guys would have to adapt to lots of extra toys, and also learn the joys of flying a swept-wing jet (not at all like a turboprop).

Mind you Eagle would probably try and order them without autopilots... ;)

Cloud Cutter
9th Aug 2005, 02:16
I don't know if the position's been filled yet? Anyone know? GC leaves at end of the month.

9th Aug 2005, 03:30
Ah Ha, the position has not been filled and applications haven't even closed.


9th Aug 2005, 05:06
Right then... where do I apply... :p

You'll be sorreeeeee.....

Cloud Cutter
9th Aug 2005, 05:36
PM on the way (on the off chance you're serious).

9th Aug 2005, 09:02
Got that, thanks. Does anyone have the job description, or know where it can be found? Nothing on the Air NZ site.

I could be serious, if the deal was right. Imagine all the fun to be had, lording it over young F/O's (and young captains, it seems). I could spend many happy days, regaling you poor unfortunates with stories about aviation in the real world. I could wax long and lyrical about how crap the CAA are, how the B1900 is the biggest pile of moose droppings ever to grace the skies, and how I am the only person in NZ who REALLY knows anything about aviation.

Yes, it is obvious I am right for this role... :ok:

Kaptin M
9th Aug 2005, 09:42
How far does "external" extend to?