FLS Time to go

[The hippy]

Is it true that FLS have till November to sort out their problems, or the concrete company pulls the plug?

[near enuf is good enuf]

I like it.
We really should take this to the BBC.
Eastenders and Cora wouldn't get a look in.
"THE FLS FILES"

------------------
So that you may not be the martyred slaves of Time,
get drunk, get drunk,
and never pause for rest!
With wine, poetry, or vitrtue,
as you choose!"

[cotos]

The present CEO was given the mandate by the shareholders in March to turn around a £325M loss into a £100M profit by October 2000. If he fails the the business would be sold off. The CEO is ex-BF Goodrich and is currently laid up in the USA with a pulled muscle in his leg.
Some say he is still at BFG allowing FLS to freefall so that BFG can pick up any good bits that are left within FLS at a good price in November.

[plainoldfitter]

So what is this Fomula 1 project actually doing for STN ?
Has anyone from the old management system been moved out and new blood brought in?
Hear they have somewhat doubled these manager positions why ?
How much has been paid to the trade mark holders, for the new project names?
Money going out every which way?

[old-timer]

my pals there tell me that a load of folk
got made "redundant" to save money,
then they gradually brought a new load in !!!!!
whats going on ??
sounds a duff deal to me ?
jobs for the boys ?

------------------
****Todays lesson...dont leave your coffee on the centre console *****

[Dozy Bell]

Is it true that FLS Line has relinquished 7 contracts, if so why? Is it because of a CAA audit? Also is it true FLS have breached their overdraft limit of £100 million with the concrete producers?

[LBMF]

FLS Line has relinquished 7 contracts? They don't need to, the **** poor service makes most customers walk, if not run, away.
More excuses for not doing work than you could think of. Many still angry about Dan Air & all they want to do is take the money & do nothing!
When FLS Line goes down the tube only a few of the line staff will get a job, most of the good ones have already left. As for the lazy bunch, they will be off down the dole office. Could not survive contracting as they would have to work for a living.

[plainoldfitter]

FF Cat

Ref initial posting. Who would be the new names they have taken on, contract wise to make them a sucessful business?

Surely engine overhaul is different to actual aircraft "D" Checks, that is engine work could be bench type work, easily accessable?

I Agree, I hope that Mr Henderson gets the correct peolple.

Are the satisfied customers the ones who are getting thier work done at FLS's expense on flying hour rates? Messers Ryanair for instance?

Hope the new regime bites the bullet and pulls FLS thru this time of termoil.



[This message has been edited by plainoldfitter (edited 25 August 2000).]

[Dozy Bell]

FF Cat. Get your head out of the sand, FLS are in the S***. When contacted they never return calls even when told a/c are AOG.They leave the hangar with shoddy work carried out due lack of resourses. It will only get better with a COMPLETE change of managment, (senior and middle). The blokes on the shop floor are treading water whilst carrying managment on their shoulders, until this is resolved FLS won't get better.

[WenWe]

Plainoldfitter - Even customers on flying hour contracts are not happy. Dozy Bell is right, the problem is not on the shop floor but at (lack of) managment level.

[Grubbykev]

Hi guys, I think that it was goig to happen sooner or later. FLS don't seem to learn that in the Aerospace industry when you are buying a maintenance facility you don't buy one that is going down the toilet for the wrong reasons. When they bought Dan Air Engineering they got a diamond for the price of a pearl & they managed to balls that up by choosing Stansted instead of Gatwick as their base. The Diamond hangar historically never made any money before FLS bought it and they had to force customers from lasham to use it when they eventually finished the long drawn out layoff of the majority of the Lasham & Gatwick staff. Even then they were in trouble by the very methods of employment that they used that incensed contractors so much, ie. "oh yeah you can do an hour on this job to finish it then ****** off til 4.30 when I'll find you another job, by the way you won't be getting paid!" Dan Air weren't the only one's to feel FLS's grasp either as the boy's at Loveaux, Bournemouth know,well and truly sold down the river they were! When they bought out team and I started to see for my own eyes how badly a B checks end results could be when carried out by people with no interest in their job then I knew that yet again the writing was going to be on the the wall for FLS Aerosace UK. I was in Manchester & I talked to Birger Riisager along time ago when FLS still had Dan Air engineers working for them and he had just taken over. He told me then that the parent company was working for a long term plan but it was expecting to be making a profit after 5 years. Guess what happens when you make a sh*t purchase with a bad rep? Yep down goes your profits. Virgin Atlantic saw the light pretty damn quick & pulled out of team, who else went too? Do they still get help from Europe?
I'm sorry to tell you guy's this, cos it's going to mean more job's (by the way there's been more than a few gone at LGW recently too) but I really believed Birger when I talked to him, He's a no nonsense guy & I know he's not the man, but he knew what the parent company's plans were & more than likely still are, so if you'll take my advice guys. Start looking for a new employer & get ready for a pretty pissy redundancy cheque. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif :rolleyes:

------------------
So many brake packs, so little time. (:¬(

[greaseytech]

Just one point; If the parent company does pull the plug on aircraft maintenance as looks likely, how will the operators who rely on FLS keep going? No maintenance contract, no AOC! This begs the question, should wholescale aircraft maintenance be a service industry when so many airlines will be relient on so few companies? It is time for the larger operators to realise that it might look good on paper to farm everything out short term, but long term it is a very expensive way of doing things. On the assumption that FLS goes and the likes of easyJet, Ryanair, Air 2000, Airtours and Go are still in existance, somebody has to maintain their aircraft, so work will still be out there. I hope that everything works out for the guys and girls of FLS.

[old-timer]

I heard a rumour last week that Mr Boeing
is very keen to buy FLS @ STN & MAN for their
european maintenace operation that they are setting up ?
I dont know if theres any truth in it, but
I hope someone will still be around to maintain the aircraft I fly !!

bets wishes to the guys & gals who work at the sharp end of FLS, all the ones I come into contact with are good folk & deserve better.


------------------
****Todays lesson...dont leave your coffee on the centre console *****

[old-timer]

I heard a rumour last week that Mr Boeing
is very keen to buy FLS @ STN & MAN for their
european maintenace operation that they are setting up ?
I dont know if theres any truth in the rumour, but I hope someone will still be around to maintain the aircraft I fly !!

best wishes to the guys & gals who work at the sharp end of FLS, all the ones I come into contact with are good folk & deserve much better.


------------------
todays thought...
who tested Orville &
Wilbur Wright for their type rating & base checks ??? *****

[near enuf is good enuf]

I worked for Monarch and regularly the management would gather us together for the usual pep talk/threat. They would warn us that if things didn't improve we would all be out of a job!!!
The facts are that the only people that will be out of a job if the likes of Monarch or FLS "change ownership" (because they won't close) will be the s***e managers that caused all the problems in the first place.
There aren't enuf of us to go around.
A pal recently rang me very worried about his future with Brittania due to the takeover and I said to him what I say to all you FLS boys and girls "look forward to the change of name over the door and the new colour of overalls, it can only improve!"

------------------
So that you may not be the martyred slaves of Time,
get drunk, get drunk,
and never pause for rest!
With wine, poetry, or vitrtue,
as you choose!"

[greaseytech]

Near enuf, where do ou get your quot from; it is a good one.

[near enuf is good enuf]

greaseytech,

"Get Drunk!"

One should always be drunk. That's all that matters;
that's our one imperative need. So as not to feel Time's
horrible burden one which breaks your shoulders and bows

you down, you must get drunk without cease.

But with what?
With wine, poetry, or virtue
as you choose.
But get drunk.

And if, at some time, on steps of a palace,
in the green grass of a ditch,
in the bleak solitude of your room,
you are waking and the drunkenness has already abated,
ask the wind, the wave, the stars, the clock,
all that which flees,
all that which groans,
all that which rolls,
all that which sings,
all that which speaks,
ask them, what time it is;
and the wind, the wave, the stars, the birds, and the clock,
they will all reply:

"It is time to get drunk!

So that you may not be the martyred slaves of Time,
get drunk, get drunk,
and never pause for rest!
With wine, poetry, or virtue,
as you choose!"

Stole it from one Charles Baudelaire!!!!

[Inspector Gadget]

FLS time to go? Well it certainly is at Glasgow. They recruited 6 line engineers from good secure jobs with the promise of 320,757,737 and 777 courses to cover contracts with Airtours Easyjet and Continental. What they forgot to tell them was that only the Airtours contract had been signed. Hence three months after opening the base is closing AGAIN (2nd time in 3 years!).These guys are now out on their ***** and looking for jobs at a small airport where vacancies are few and far between. If this is typical of the way FLS treat their engineers then soon no one will want to work for them. A change of management could'nt come too soon for the guys up north.

[plainoldfitter]

What about the blokes down south Insp Gadget?

Still the same old faces in the wrong places!!! so I hear.

Will new CEO have the b@lls to cut the rot out?

[SchmiteGoBust]

There appears to be a certain amount of conjecture about the future of FLS at the moment. I was talking to an ex employee of FLS who was pretty well in the know!! FLS management have for years been telling the unions during pay negotiations that they are losing money and cannot afford a rise for the engineering staff etc etc....
So how come,all of a sudden,they claim they are owed so much money that,if they were paid it all they would be in profit!!
The figures quoted all appear a little wrong somehow..Let us conjecture a minute.
One ridiculous figure that has been muted was that the world owed them 50 million squids!!
Let's break this down to DC10 C checks:--
1 million per C check for instance means they are owed for 50 checks. Is this about 4 years work at Manchester?????
At the end of the day it sounds like more typical "British" management crap-- keep'em in the dark and feed'em bull****.
LET US SURMISE---The parent company ARE pulling the plug let's face it. FLS have not made money since they started in the business and now they have to stand on their own 2 feet .I'm afraid the end must certainly be nigh. The advise to the engineers must be to get out quick. There will always be jobs for the engineers at the end of the day so don't worry lads and lasses... The management and upper echelons however may find that this doesn't apply to them! Oh dear, how sad, never mind..... http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

[This message has been edited by SchmiteGoBust (edited 09 September 2000).]

[plainoldfitter]

Mr Henderson, of GE fame seems to have drawn a duff hand here, FLS are still running along in the "head in sand mode".

No-one seems to want to change, the engineers are getting the crap and the management team seem to be carrying on much as before.

Total and utter lack of information being handed down to the shop floor, by some managers!! Shop floor workers are getting tired of being asked to put more effort into thier tasks and not being told whats happening.

If any managers are reading this thread supprise the bodies working for you, and tell them whats happening, you must have daily/weekly management meetings. They may be just able to help you some more......

Just as well the contracting has picked up, I'm off for a pocket filling winter.... ;)

[Skytrucker87]

Wholeheartedly agree with you FF Cat.
Me too.

------------------

[Plane Speaker]

The guys at Manchester could always apply to BAe Avrotec at Woodford. They need good people, always.

[pepe le-tec]

FF Cat

Try telling that to the ex FLS Gla engineers.

[greaseytech]

With all the ads for people to join FLS as maintrol engineers this week, makes me wonder if FLS are trying to bolster up their position in the industry. Is anybody, either customer or employee happy with them?

[cotos]

The ad for Maintrol Engineers is in because four have left recently as well as two from the materials side due to being on the receiving end of constant complaints from FLS's customers about the failings of FLS as a whole. This is not an attempt to attain more business, merely an attempt to stop losing it!!

[Dozy Bell]

FF CAT

If things are going so swimmingly then, why are FLS going to lose the Virgin Sun contract, one of the 3 contracts the line have left? I have seen the changes first hand and realised that the writing is on the wall. It is only when you leave and look in from the outside that you see how bad FLS has become. Mr Hendersons six sigma system is not the way forward, it will go the same way Face to Face, and TQM went, even the F Times thinks the system is no good. The web site opening page sums it up, the designers dressed up as COWBOYS!! Again pull your head out of the sand and see whats going on

[OGRI 1]

the biggest difficulty facing FLS at the moment is not six sigma or anything else, but the fact that each dept seems to think of it self as the only dept that counts, and the fact that many middle managers feel that they know best, and while openly accepting the ideas and principles of six sigma and the other programs that are running so they can keep thier jobs, they infact disagree with them. Also this theory of cascading information down to the actual sharp end of the buisiness seems very alien to them as i think that see us lowly engineers as people who have difficulty in tying our shoe laces up every morning OH HOW WRONG THEY ARE

------------------
when now ?

[This message has been edited by OGRI 1 (edited 16 September 2000).]

[snapon]

Dozy Bell.

Hear Hear. Poor FF Cat seems to have company issue rose tinted glasses on. Hope he might have some serious inside information... Cascading it down to his work force.I Doubt it though. :rolleyes:

Ogri 1

I agree whole heartedly with you, at least from what I have heard. One for all and me for myself seems to be appropriate from your missives. ;)

------------------
U want it when?

[OGRI 1]

FF Cat in reply to your thread on the 12 of Sept, you may only be defending them as at the moment, they are paying your salary, but can you be honest and say that you have never applied for a position outside of that organisation?.
I agree with the fact about their credit control dept, if they have decided to wake up it can only be a good thing, as my organisation has for many years had difficulties in extracting monies from them. Even when they were FFV, so this at least should stop a lot of speculation to your companies future. As to the F1 project, the A/C currently on a P6 check is according to my sources not as well managed as the pilot A/C done at stansted if so it is a shame, obviously FLS do not like adopting new practices,

[This message has been edited by OGRI 1 (edited 17 September 2000).]

[SchmiteGoBust]

I have to agree with Snapon about FF Cats glasses. He appears to be suffering from myopia as well as far as FLS are concerned. Like many people I HAVE had direct first hand experience of FLS as both an employee and a customer. I can only assume from your demeanor FF Cat that you are not a shop floor engineer. If this is not the case I apologise for my mistake. However I am hazarding a guess that you are in "the offices",as it were, which in my long experience (first hand!) is the only place where employees are treated with any respect.
Your remarks concerning PlainOldFitter being just a contractor and not a CEO rankle somewhat. I'll bet PlainOldFitter is quite good at his job. The new CEO has yet to prove that he is. You appear to be displaying FLS management syndrome towards the "lowlife" on the floor!!!!!!!Exactly why everyone leaves. :mad:

[plainoldfitter]

FF Cat has gone long live the CAT.

Good to see FLS management have staying power, suppose he comes from a well tried and tested school of managers. Wonder if he has seen the truth of his work force's lack of guidance and is off to help steer them in the right direction?

I spoke to a GE employee, and if you are not 100% for the six smegma reigeme then you are history......may be some relief for the boys there after all.

[plainoldfitter]

FF Cat has gone long live the CAT.

Good to see FLS management have staying power, suppose he comes from a well tried and tested school of managers. Wonder if he has seen the truth of his work force's lack of guidance and is off to help steer them in the right direction?

I spoke to a GE employee, and if you are not 100% for the six smegma reigeme then you are history......may be some relief for the boys there after all.

[SchmiteGoBust]

Some sweeping statements seem to be being made about me moaning about FLS after being on the fashionable (or is it unfashionable!) end of a company re-sizing. Well ,just for the record, I left FLS many years ago all of my own accord to go to a much better job where I was treated as a human being rather than a dog turd!!! Funnily enough more than 60% of the a+c engineers did exactly the same thing. That's a turnover to be proud of I'd say. Not many companies can match that sort of performance. The management responded to this crisis in superb morale raising fashion and immediately did absolutely nothing.
Again I do apologise if I am wrong, but I cannot see how FF cat (long may he live) can be a customer of FLS and at the same time be praising them--it just isn't possible!!It defies all known logic!! If there are any customers of FLS out there who are generally or even vaguely satisfied with the overall service, please let us all know and I will eat my words or bare my arse in Sainsbury's window on Saturday whichever you prefer.
Just as an anecdote to FF Cat:- this is a rumour network forum and no direct or personal criticism is meant. You appear to genuinely care about the business and shop floor workforce. Not many of the higher management do. If there were more people like this FLS would increase its longer term prospects and be a much better place to work in. Happier workforce= happier customers... :)

[IMA Conehead]

http://avanimation.avsupport.com/gif/Flythru.gif
Fed Up!
Leaving
Soon !!!

DEPARTURE LOUNGE

The finger OFF the pulse management chooses to ignore the ever shrinking workforce, placing an even geater strain on already limited resources. Not something desirable in our line of work! Sooner or later something has to give.


Formula 1
Losing the plot with
Six Sigma

I doubt the current management - all on the 6 sigma bandwagon, something a couple of cowboys dreampt up, has expertise to turn things around.

" 3.4 defects per million opportunities for defect" http://www.geocities.com/thehugmonster/animations/iconpuke.gif

Hardly relevant to our highly diverse and complex industry, if it works we'll all be made redundant!

I think not !!

Alas, nothing will change until the sign on the door does, and only then when a completely revamped management team with sufficient experience and the depth in this industry are appointed.

Ignorance is bliss ! (While it lasts)

[This message has been edited by IMA Conehead (edited 28 September 2000).]

[OldHand]

Now THAT is a valid point. management by buzz-word (to quote the unofficial FLS website) never can work in this industry. Yes - lets have managers who actually know that the pointy end is at the front of the aircraft. There is even a totally unqualified person acting as a planner in maintrol. That has got to be very very dangerous.

[A/c Slave]

Hey guys I have been following this Whole Fls issue all the way. And most of the things are so very true and most will probably happen.
I can actually see it 'first hand', "I AM THERE!" It is not good news I am afraid, and Mr.FFCAT, sorry mate,, but it's not much you can do!

"And I also have a very good idea who you are",,,,,,,,don't worry as I like what you stand for, but from what I see and know from the floor right UP, it does not look too bright!

[Magic Bus]

A/C Slave is spot on!
FLS is not far off having the 'last rites' read to it.
The proliforation of 'management schemes' such as 'Formula 1' (great, until an inspection gets missed, and the results are seen on the TV news)....it's all been seen before, TQM, Investors in People (ho, ho, ho, sick joke).
FLS will never get anywhere if it can't attract the engineers, and it won't help it's cause by pulling stunts like opening GLA line, then closing it a month later...who the hell would want to drop everything to go and work for a 'management' so clueless???
This particular incident is just plain cruel, it simply sums up what most of us already know, that FLS has got just about the same prospects for survival as Tony Blair's Millennium Dome (doom).
As for the Maintrol situation, the feedback is that the individual doing the line planning has now progressed to the engineers desk, going beyond 'very dangerous' to '****ing suicidal'.
Yes, FLS is in it's death throes, the incidents listed here are just a couple of many, low morale, gash management, cronyism...and so it goes on.

[Whot_no_tug]

Seeing the DC10 above made me wonder how long it will be before Continental will start legal procedings against FLS for failing to detect that a 15 inch panel was becoming detached? When was the aircraft last through FLS LGW? Did the F1 system have anything to do with this ? As mentioned above inspections have been missed!

[The hippy]

Ima Conehead

if I said "man is not a camel" would that mean anything to you?

------------------
Who said it was wiring?

[old-timer]

Continetal DC10's, parts falling loose,
that sounds very familiar ?

I sincerely hope theres no connection
with the recent CDG tragedy, possibly caused by DC10 FOD on the runway ?

F1 ? just see how that goes wrong some times
in the real F1 world,
rushed pit stops, wheels falling off, sometimes,no wheels to fit !! seems that FLS took F1 too literally ?
how about trying good old commonsense, ask the guys doing the job what they need,
then give it to them & pay them properly
for doing it, hey presto, instant improvement !!
every ones happy.

[IMA Conehead]

Hippy

I'd say "Its your Shout"

But I doubt I'm Who Your thinking of !

Regards

Conehead
http://www.vegemite.com.au/image_library/singalong/jarsmall.gif



[This message has been edited by IMA Conehead (edited 03 October 2000).]

[jetfueldrinker]

I have been watching this thread since it started and find it extrordinary that it has gone on to three pages! It is known that Billy Boeing and Jimmy GE are looking to expand into the airline maintenance market, but if Boeing buy out FLS, what will happen to all the Airbus and Lockheed aircraft that FLS look after? Could you imagine all those customers trying to get Boeing to service non-Boeing aircraft?

By the way, who has got the Virgin Sun contract?

[SchmiteGoBust]

OldHand,just an aside,but you mentioned an FLS unoffficial website. I can't find it , where is it please?

[snapon]

Is it true someone across the irish sea has taken the stance of requesting more renumeration before tackling the Formula 1 a/c. Has this sent Mr Hodgeson packing from STN ??

Snippits comming out of Stn is he is on his way, FLS Stn would look a bit odd on his C.V. no doubt. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/redface.gif

FF cat is still there boys...... http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif


------------------
U want it when?

[This message has been edited by snapon (edited 03 October 2000).]

[OldHand]

Schmite,

The site referred to is

communities.msn.com/flsaerospace

not much in there right now except a welcome message and a warning about personal attacks however.

[Dozy Bell]

Just heard a rumour that the hangar FLS use at LGW (the old BA one) is to shut in 2 weeks time apparantly due to lack of license cover.The blokes there have been told they will be informed about what is happening soon. Does anyone know any more info on this?

[A/c Slave]

Well, well,, first that rumor about Gatwick seems to be true, as the mass of the work force there are 'contractors'! It's about 80% contractors to 'Permi's' What sort of operation is that? Not much commitment there, is there.
3Weeks ago there was a "FULL" stock taking exercise at Stansted and recently at Manchester,,,,,, more food for though!
The writing is on the walls people, I am seeing it............................

Also the 2 F1 projects presently at Stansted are more like F1000's. One has left 2 weeks late and the other is heading in the same direction!!!!

Anyone with a job? "I am a good worker!"

[snapon]

Latest "rumour" me heard was that the Official turn round was december 2000, There must be a vast improvement and 1st 1/4 figures must be in black. Board will make a decision then what will be happening!

One figure banded around has been 170 mill for diamond hangar! any one care to speculate further.

------------------
U want it when?

[Hoochykoochy]

snapon

Heard it was £130 million myself.

That was apparently from Major Major

------------------
I cannot hear the sound of fear.

[old-timer]

any truth the germans are interested
for their new 'super' charter line
uk headquarters, to aid LTN ?

[snapon]

Another Boeing audit for Stansted and Manchester??? Calling in on Monday for tea and bickies maybe, and
"Oh how much did you say this place is worth Mr H" I wonder. :)

[PenPusher]

Boeing moving in big time in Dublin with the up and coming mods on the South African B747's... they have a head start !!

[Gen Brace]

If something is not working and dragging down the rest of the system that is trying to perform do you not remove it from the system so that the rest may acheive?

Poor management is the problem here, the constant bad performance of several people is consistant from year to year! remove and replace not reposition is the answer....

The same thing happens every time something isnt right so they move and replace very few new blood same people, different title, same job, same result. This is why we are in this situation.

[Skytrucker87]

There is a similar comment on the FLS Community site.

communities.msn.com/flsaerospace

[Gen Brace]

:) Someone has started chopping at F.L.S> too late you might say but definiftely two managers are leaving/sacked. Lets see if they get removed from the premises or just given a new job title http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

------------------
FROM LEYLAND TO THE STARS!

[snapon]

Gen Brace

Lets hope they are swinging the BIG KAHOONA axe this time and actually get these bods of site!!!
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif



------------------
U want it when?

[Gen Brace]

You can only get away with failure for so long. :rolleyes: So no tears being shed over this little axeing session. Out with the old and in with some new blood. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

------------------
FROM LEYLAND TO THE STARS!