Double Pilot Incapacitation, EZY

[Brdgeovatrubbldwater]

Pressonitis or Gasteroentiritis?

Its a well known fact that the SOP '2 pilots must not eat at the same time' is almost universaly ignored on the line, but ironicaly one of the only Skippers to stick to it came a cropper recently on a Nice flight, allegedly.

Rumor has it that on arrival in Nice the co-pilot complained of food poisoning (from the crewfood) but the Captain persuaded him to press on with the return flight to Liverpool. You guessed it, on the way back to LPL the Co-Joe didnt get any better and then the Capt started to get the same symptoms from the same source (sauce?)......OOPS! Again rumor has it that they were both in serious risk of a double incap by the time they landed back at their base.

The ASR makes interesting reading. Maybe they will get an EZY special award for daftness like the crew that diverted into NCL a while back for 'smoke in the aft galley' which turned out to be dryice which had been chucked in the gashbin. One thing is certain they cant promote the capt as he is already a line trainer :-)

[catchup]

Whom do you want to blame?

[DX Wombat]

Whilst not minimising the potential seriousness of this incident in any way it appears that there is a lot of premature jumping to conclusions here.Its a well known fact that the SOP '2 pilots must not eat at the same time' is almost universaly ignored on the line, but ironicaly one of the only Skippers to stick to it came a cropper recently on a Nice flight, allegedly. I always understood it was the same meal rather than the same time (although that would make sense from the point of view that it would be sensible to have one pilot at the controls whilst the other eats) Rumor has it that on arrival in Nice the co-pilot complained of food poisoning (from the crewfood) Has anyone seen the pathology reports from samples of this meal - if indeed any were ever taken? the Capt started to get the same symptoms from the same source (sauce?) How can you be sure? You don't know that the airline food was the source of the pilot's problem. Isn't it possible that fresh meals would have been loaded at Nice and as this is the return leg would it not be unlikely that they were obtained from the same supplier? Again rumor has it The important word here is RUMOUR The FACTS, as far as I can see, are that one pilot became unwell (allegedly prior to the flight) and the other during the flight.
There is a very simple, possible explanation for this and one which does not involve food at all. It is a nasty, airborne virus called Rotavirus. No eating, drinking, or even sharing of mugs, cutlery etc is necessary and it can be very quick acting.

[jojodel]

I still stick to the rule not to eat at the same time as my Copilot
and not the same food of course.
I think this is common practise out there...


Keep the blue side up, jojodel

[Sagittarius Rising]

More sh@t stirring Bridge (See another current thread 'Open Culture @ezy). Get a life.

[alterego]

How many crews on a nightstop enjoy breakfast from the same buffet service in the hotel? Or share a portion of chips/nachos (etc) in the bar?

Don't know the ins & outs of this case but double contamination could happen to any number of crews. Eating a different meal at the same time is probably the least dangerous.

[Farmer 1]

There is no problem here as long as you stick rigidly to the Harry Secombe diet: Eat as much as you like, but don't swallow.

[golfyankeesierra]

Its a well known fact that the SOP '2 pilots must not eat at the same time' is almost universaly ignored on the line
Are you serious? Then who is flying those orange planes if you're both eating? Or are you only referring to airbusses iso 73's?

[Stu Bigzorst]

Are you serious? Then who is flying those orange planes if you're both eating?


http://www.tigersweat.com/images/air06.jpg


But that's not important right now.

[girtbar]

Ha ha!! Classic :p

<-GB->

[Flying Bagel]

Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. :}

[tudeski2004]

Not a doctor here, but I have been informed by a chef friend that it takes some 12 hours for signs of food poisoning to show, so with that in mind, I would suggest it was something other than the Crew food.

[Rollingthunder]

The only time I've been affected by food poisoning was as a pax on board a flight. Didn't need twelve hours - twenty minutes after finishing the meal I went white as a ghost, had cold chills and an upside down tummy. Barely made it to lav.

[assymetric]

I will second Rolling thunders comments.

Same thing happened to me as crew.

[cavortingcheetah]

:)

I am reminded of the story of an SAA flight from Lisbon to JHB some years ago. SAA had just changed caterers at Lisbon and the food loaded on the 747 was the last to be provided by the soon to be replaced supplier.
Everyone on board went down with The Revenge. Rolled up blankets at the rear to absorb the effluent and so on. No where to land as in those days SAA had to fly around the bulge.
Very unpleasant all around. Presumption, not entirely illogical, is that someone at the Lisbon caterer company spiked all the food, or the water or whatever.
Also reminded of a rumour concerning a certain hostess or two at Air Botswana, some years ago, on F 27s. If offended by Flight Crew-they did so take offence so easily-not above slipping something nasty into Flight Deck coffee, or so I was led to believe one sunny day over Francistown en route Harare. :ugh:

[Few Cloudy]

12 hours to show up food poisoning? More like 2 to 4, depending on the severity.

Long ago I had a Captain who shortly after climb was more or less incapacitated due food poisoning from his breakfast in Khartoum.

He had been trying to persuade me to eat the same hubble bubble - "delicious" he said.

The rest of the story is not really to my credit, as the FE and I brought the ship back to Europe, while the Captain monopolised the toilet. Had we known how long he was going to be out of service, we should have gone down earlier.

[Farmer 1]

I will do my best not to be indelicate here.

When food is ingested, it normally works its way through the body in one direction. If the food is tainted, however, it might change direction and exit rapidly from the entry point. This might be after only a few minutes, as anyone who has been given an emetic knows.

I don't know what is the "normal" time for food to be processed by the body and passed out in the normal manner; twelve hours-ish, I would guess, possibly more.

The longer this process takes, the greater is the tendency towards constipation; the less time it takes, the looser the composition, if you know what I mean. The results of a two-hour process are not a pretty sight, I can assure you, and it has occasionally been impossible to tell which particular orifice was in use at the time.

A chef is the last person you should ask about food poisoning.

I guess it's breakfast time somewhere in the world - bon appetites!

[catchup]

:O :O :O

Congratulation.

regards

[Dani]

The purpose of not eating the same is avoiding food poisoning. The purpose of not eating at the same time is avoiding distraction from flying, and most of all talking to ATC. It's amazing that some professional pilots here seem to follow rules but not knowing why...

The time between intake and outbrake is mainly depending on what it is and how the body reacts. A toxic substance (either put directly into the food or as a bacterial process) may react quicker than some expired or raw ingredients. Then it's depending on the amount of the toxic substances in ratio of the body weight. And me thinks that certain stomacs are more delicat then others.

Dani

[Lon More]

How many crews on a nightstop enjoy breakfast from the same buffet service in the hotel? Or share a portion of chips/nachos (etc) in the bar?
Not to mention the peanuts - so named because they've been touched by so many people who didn't wash their hands after using the toilet.

I've, fortunately, only ever had food poisoning twice, once after a Mexican meal in Reading - spent two days in a hotel toilet pointing one end at the toilet and the other at the shower - and a second at work - just made it to the bog and the result looked like explosive decompression :yuk: :yuk:

[MorningGlory]

Getting sick on crewfood and having to pay for it through crewfood reduction from salary?

I'd rather not pay it, and bring my own.. Seeing as most of it is rubbish anyway!

[trainer too 2]

Agree with morning glory. Sometimes bringing your own is the best! You will always eat something you like rather then what somebody else think you should like at the minimal expense! ;)

[acm]

Part E page 2-27:
"Flight Crew must not eat at the same time."

Full stop.

If you have an RA, how do you do ?

[Capt Snooze]

Not to mention the peanuts - so named because they've been touched by so many people who didn't wash their hands after using the toilet.

Digressing slightly.............

Here in downtown China, even in the sleeziest of back street bars, one is usually provided with a set of chopsticks to access the peanuts. (An interesting exercise in-itself after the fifth bottle of Tsingtao) It would be regarded as extremely uncouth to use one's fingers.

The usual sanitary facilities provided in the same establishment are also however, interesting!



Snooze

[Doug the Head]

Dani: The purpose of not eating the same is avoiding food poisoning. The purpose of not eating at the same time is avoiding distraction from flying, and most of all talking to ATC. It's amazing that some professional pilots here seem to follow rules but not knowing why... Nonsence Dani!!! YOU obviously don't know why... The reason for not eating at the same time is because the symptoms food poisening can show very severely and very quickly. (within 20 mins as Rollingthunder said correctly) Just read the relevant chapter in ANY JAR OPS OM! The reason for not eating at the same time is both to avoid a simultaneous double incapacitation and also to have someone at the controls in case of an RA, engine failure etc...

Speaking of professionalism and crewfood: EZY caterers frequently load the same crewfood leaving the crew very little (or no) choice of what to eat.

Furthermore with the EZY rosters, schedules and workload, planning to have a crewmeal, whilst respecting the limitations of not eating at the same time, can be very very difficult.

To be honest, I sometimes 'bust' the above rule when flying, simply because I weigh the risks of operating on reduced capacity (i.e. without any food in my stomach) versus the very slight risk of foodpoisoning.

p.s. it's always good to have some of those charcoal tablets against diarrhea in your crewbag! :D

[Few Cloudy]

Or, as they say, "Dire = dreadful. Rear = behind".

[grimmrad]

To get some clarification on food poisoning:
Food poisoning can be caused by various microorganisms including viruses - with various symptoms. They will typically manifest as a mixture of nausea, vomiting, fever, abdominal pain and diarrhea. However, some foodborne diseases may have other symptoms. Botulism and some types of shellfish poisoning can present with paralysis, hepatitis A or E with hepatitis and Listeria monocytogenes with meningitis or spontaneous abortion.

Pathogens can either produce toxins a) already in the food (usually rapid onset of clinical signs within 1 to 6 hours or so), b) once they have been ingested (takes longer so symptoms occur later, i.e. after 24 hrs., Cholera is a typical example) or c) they can cause disease by either damaging the epithelial cell surface or by actually invading across the intestinal epithelial cell barrier. This group of pathogens can produce a wide spectrum of clinical presentations

Vomiting, nausea and abdominal cramps, fever and/or diarrhea are common symptoms. S. aureus toxin is heat-stable and is often associated with the consumption of foods prepared by a food handler.

Conclusion: it can start very fast within an hour or so (or on the next day). Better keep this in mind, as it makes sense not to eat the same stuff in the same strange sushi bar the night before...
And no, I am not a pilot but yes I am a physician.

Regards

[Farmer 1]

Quote:

p.s. it's always good to have some of those charcoal tablets against diarrhea in your crewbag!


Have you no consideration at all for your crew? Leave the crewbag behind, for God's sake! Doesn't bear thinking about! And what good would charcoal tablets do, anyway?

[Lou Scannon]

A pilot with whom I used to work (who is now a guest of Her Majesty) once passed out as he tried to make the toilet, just 20 minutes after eating a crew meal.

[DanAir1-11]

Have personally witnessed crew incap from food.

FE took approx 10 minutes to go from a healthy (if stunningly unattractive - sorry Mort!!) individual, to a quivering white lump of jelly hurling chunks of the offending snack into the bag.
Fortuantely he recovered fairly quickly after a few good hurls, but the speed at which it overcame him was insane. We had trouble getting the trolly dolly's to visit forthe rest of the sector, wasn't the prettiest smell..... .

Regards

[ozangel]

Ive had it once at work - after a 4am signon - and scoffing down a Thai Chicken Curry crew meal for breakfast (evidently the same meals we had served the pax the night before for dinner - but dished up as brekky) - was at the back of the fokker having just got my cart set up for a 8am service to brisbane, 3rd sector with another 2 to go after that. Got two rows into the service from the back, was pale, shaky on my feet, and beginning to sweat and see 4 passengers where there were really only 2. The seatbelt sign was still on, and we were going up very steep - and the weather was hot and stormy outside - bumpy. Then my stomache grumbled so loud you could hear it over the sound of the engines down the back, and I thought - uh oh - so i let the brake go- the trolley rolled down the back and slammed into the crew seats. I parked it, opened the loo door, and without a second to spare - ive never lost so much weight in a minute before.

I tidied myself up, and went back into the cabin to see about 20 heads all turned around looking at me with horrified looks - seems they had heard my hurling.

Needless to say, I didnt sell one item of food, and it was a very quick service. I didnt get any better, and for the rest of the flight was running back and forth every 5mins to lose some more weight.

Got off the plane in bne, they found someone else to do my last two sectors, and ended up passing out in the taxi on the way to the hotel.

They dragged me up to my room - where i continued to lose weight. Unfortunately after a while I realised the bedside spew bucket which was the bin, I had been using, was a wicker basket - MESSY.

They came up to check on me - I couldnt move - they called a relative who lived nearby, and they drove me to hospital - where I spent a few hours on a drip and on some fantastic medication!

Got back to the hotel, 3 hrs later was at work again, although much wiser about ever eating thai chicken curry.

[rubik101]

As the thread seemed to be started with the sole aim of heaping opprobrium on easyJet, as is the poster's wont, I just wondered how BOTW was feeling after seeing the thread drift off to the general subject of food poisoning?
So, in the interests of keeping the thread on subject, let me say that I have also experienced the effects of such poisoning.
The culprit was a well-known pub close to a church tower near Gatwick Airport, much frequented by night stopping crews. Dinner was taken, along with a modicum of alcohol.
The next morning before we left, we lost the first of our cabin crew, replaced by a standby. About one hour into the flight to Tenerife the second cabin crew succumbed to the same symptoms. On the ground in Tenerife, the FO fell ill and spent the whole of the turn-around on the toilet. Faced with this situation, the Captain called for a complete replacement crew to be flown to Tenerife to rescue the flight. The company, naturally enough, wanted to replace just the sick crewmembers. The Captain insisted, fortunately. Lo and behold, within a few hours, the rest of the crew suffered similar symptoms, to varying degrees.
The time from eating to the onset of the symptoms varied from around nine hours to fourteeen hours or so. The Captain was the last to suffer, probably because his gut has seen the most abuse!
The pub in question has been mentioned to me on many occasions as the source of such illness and should, in my opinion, be avoided at all costs!

[firstchoice7e7]

just to add, ive just recovering after suffering from food poisoning 'campylobacter', 1 week in hospital and 2 weeks off work. This bug is caused by undercooked chicken and symptoms (nausea/vomiting/diarreah) come to light 2-5 days after eating the infected food. :ooh:

[Flap 5]

One of the problems of short haul is the the very short period of time in the cruise when the crew can eat e.g. Luton - Edinburgh and Luton - Glasgow. Therefore on these flights the crew have to eat, if not at the same time, very close together. When you have 5 sector days with such short flights the symptoms of food poisoning can appear at any time on any of the sectors.

[Captain Airclues]

Dani

It's amazing that some professional pilots here follow rules but not knowing why

It's not wise to make such a statement unless you are 100% sure of your facts. Our ops manual states that there should be a minimum of one hour between pilots eating their meals (as well as the meals being different). This is clearly not for the reasons that you give.

Airclues

[A330driver]

One of the most common sources of food poisoning is from uncooked foods - starters and desserts.

Paticularly problematic are things containing mayonnaise cream or cookede rice, paticularly in summer time as the food can spend a prolonged period at warm temperatures before being consumed.

BE careful out there. They're all out to get you.

[40KTSOFFOG]

The crew canteen in Liege is used by about 30 TNT freight crews each night between 01:00 and 04:00 with one main hot choice or horse.

It is only a matter of time. Nice choice of ice-cream though!

[ManaAdaSystem]

Part E page 2-27: "Flight Crew must not eat at the same time." Full stop. If you have an RA, how do you do ?

I don't know. What type of food is it?

[catchup]

Exactly!

Good post.

regards

(Lost 10 pounds after returning to short range:) )