Pay

[Genghis the Engineer]

Here's a good subject to get the blood boiling.

In front of me is the 6 October issue of "Professional Engineering". It quotes the following Median values for Engineers in UK Industry. I should say that most of the figures relate to Chartered rather than Technician or Incorporated Engineers.

1997 Median (Aerospace Industry): £31,042pa
1999 Median (Aerospace Industry): £36,500pa

1999 Median, all CEng: £36,000pa (1997, £33,000)
1999 Median, all IEng: £27,500pa (1997, £25,153)
1999 Median, all EngT: £23,000pa (1997, £21,000) The 1999 Mean for Engineering Technicians is apparently £30,000 pa.

Apparently also 35.8% of all Engineers receive a company care for their sole use, and 38% of Chartered Engineers.


So, does anybody know?...

(1) Where the hell are all of these Engineers earning £40-£50,000 pa to balance what I and pretty much everybody else I know is paid.

(2) Are these figures reliable (the Engineering Council published them, who presumably didn't pluck them out of the air).

(3) Am I just grossly underpaid and everybody else is far better paid and just not admitting it.

(4) Why do these figures come nowhere near what's on offer in the Engineering job ads?

G

[growler]

Option 3 I suspect Ghengis. Certainly the company I work for and others I know are paying mid thirties for dual licenced people. At our place we even get an annual bonus of upto 25% of basic.The actual amount you get of course is dependant on things like personal performance and company performance.
As far as company cars go, my feeling is that they are nothing but a tax burden. Then again I've never actually had one so cant speak from experience. The company I work for doesn't have them at all, and all senior managers seem happy with the situation.

[greycone]

Don't come to Ireland and expect anywhere near £30k.A dual Licencee could only expect mid 20k and thats Punts,not Sterling.....
As for a company car,not a chance.Unless you work for FLS who have a fleet of Butchers Boy Bikes.Thats the nearest one will get to free transport

[spannersatcx]

Not me for sure,
I answered a recent ad for engineers at Monarch base maint, Pensionable salary was 22500GBP, + shift + license/approval pay which took total package to around 28000.
VS offered around 30k. Our managers get car + petrol, but no cash alternative. I also don't get shift or overtime allowance although I work it more often than not. FCL/JMC started at 31k + 4k shift. I guess some are recognising the fact that experienced engineers are getting harder to find and are starting to raise the stakes a bit. However until we have strong bodies to support us we will always get the "if you don't like it.....there's plenty of people out there etc.." Which there isn't out there, we will always be looked on as the necessary evil and the fact that anyone can do it mentality from the senior (probably ex ramp/hangar floor engineers) managers and bean counters who dictate what we will or won't get.

[Bus429]

Spanners, the chaps on MAEL line are not doing too bad these days. An avionics tech with 6 types and all the tickets is on 42K (or so I am told).

[growler]

With regard to the strong body to look after us, if all engineers (Licensed) joine ALAE,they would be our strong body.

[spannersatcx]

Growler et al, I agree trouble is most LAE's are too lazy to do anything about it. If you're not a member then try their website at http://www.lae.mcmail.com and then all you have to do is persuade all your colleagues to join at the measly sum of £1/week.

Bus429, just what the recruitment agency told me for the hangar, I'm sure your right, trouble is it'll take a fair few years to get all the approvals to get me on that. How's your new offices? we'll be moving to your old place in the middle of December.

[Bus429]

Spanners, I'll try to get to see you next week. Email me.

[Conehead The Barbarian]

Gengis, they must take into account all the
OT worked on nights etc . Could you live comfortably on your basic alone???
Our pay is sh*te for what we do but we still
do it!!

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'm actually a Chartered rather than licensed Engineer. I inspect and approve new aircraft designs and modifications - and yes I'm appaulingly badly paid for that responsibility. That said I do it in civil aviation where I'm paid about 20% more than I got for doing the same in miltary aviation a few years ago.

And being salaried I don't get overtime, I'm just expected to work the hours required for the love of it. I don't even get paid for flying in the stuff I've just signed-off as safe (did some good spinning trials this year!) but it seems to make the pilot happy.

G

[greaseytech]

Oh the vexed issue of pay. No one ever gets enough, not even the MD's on £100.000+. If you think pay is bad in the airline sector then try general aviation. 10 years ago when I came out of the RAF, I had an interview with Octavia in Staverton. They were offering £6000 per year, and no I did not take the job. CSE, who I did work for for a short while were not much better, paying £8000, and I believe thay are not much better even now. So I made the move to airline mainenance. It is my view that eventually a lot heavy maintenance will go to the former Eastern Bloc countries where wages are considerably lower than that in the UK, with, no doubt, a considerable drop in standards. After all we are supposed to be one Euroupe now, so the likes of Poland etc. could in theory gain JAR 145 approvals.

By the way, there are more poeple employed in our IT department than on the hangar floor! And they get better pay than us! So I suppose we could all retrain to become IT specialists. After all 'Any one can do that job'.

[greycone]

In today's Irish Independent,FLS are looking for all trades at Dublin Airport.No mention of Payscales but with the shortage of Bods for any type of work in Ireland presently,Perhaps one could name their price.

[greaseytech]

Anyone know what FLS are like to work for these days? Colleagues of mine who worked there in the past have all been glad to leave. It seems that FLS want to take over all 3rd party maintenance in Euroupe and they will buy thier way into any contract. Anyone care to comment?

[greycone]

Greaseytech,I don't know what they are like to work for in the UK and Europe,but they have recently bought TEAM AerLingus (previously AerLingus Maintenance and Engineering at Dublin) and the people who transferred To FLS from TEAM seem to be happy.But then again,it's boom times at the moment.I don't know how happy they will be come the downturn.
If all the articles in FLIGHT are to be believed,they seem to have work guaranteed for a few years yet.They have all the work on AerLingus' Airbus and Boeing fleet for the next 9 years.

[JetMender]

The MAEL salary quoted above, would be gross, including shift pay, rostered overtime + extra overtime. Basic salary + approval pay for an experienced Avionics Certifier with 6 full types is approx £33K.