Insurance Question

[TeleMaPhone]

I was wondering - where I come from there are plenty of old men with planes, but none that can be publicly hired. I presume this is because of insurance reasons. About how much extra does it cost to insure a plane (such as C172 or Warrior) so that not only the owner can fly it?
I know there wont be any perfect figures here - but I am just interested in why there is nothing online (cause I have to travel an hour just to hire!)

Thanks
TMP

[27/09]

TMP

Insurance could be a reason. Had you considered that maybe they simply don't wish to hire their aircraft.

I know several owners who would never consider hiring their aircraft. Some don't want anyone at any price, while others want to avoid having to explain why the answer is no to some while allowing others fly so they just say no to all who ask.

Insurance is usually based on a percentage of the aircraft value, about 5% from memory. Other factors are the level of excess that applies. This can reduce the premium paid or in some cases a high excess is the only way insurance can be obtained. Also some insurance companies apply experience minimums or require each pilot to be named along with their experience.

Even if the aircraft is insured the extra requirements imposed by some insurers make it too much hassle for owners to bother with itinerant users.

[bush pelican]

This is mainly because old men with planes have learnt that it is not worth hireing them to young men without planes. The process of having someone checked out does not guarantee that the hirer can fly well consistently, or that he /she has the integrity to carry out the owners requirements. Many have learnt the hard way that just one incident/accident can negate years of benefits that may be gained from casual hire. I will hire to people I know well personally, only as a favour. Insurance is an issue for low time pilots but overall, it's just not worth the hassle.
BP

[Not_Another_Pot]

It's prolly the latter of not wanting to hire the AC out.

On our insurance we have nominated pilots only and they must have over 2000hrs, this knocks out most people you will meet at the derro club bar.

[TeleMaPhone]

Thanks for the replies.
I know that a few of the aircraft owners around used to let people hire their aircraft. I think it was just that there was not enough money coming back to cover the expenses. Now that the pilot population is on the rise again around our area I thought that there might be a chance of some coming online again. I guess the best thing I can do is approach some people.

[Wheeler]

Tele

You are right. Sure, all those above have a point, many of us old blokes love our planes too much and putting them on line is a bit like putting your wife on the game. Sometimes its quite heart breaking to get your pride and joy back after some negectful school or coundn't care less instructor has taken it to hell and back. But getting back to your question, on say a $135,000 plane, my insurance company want about $1200 per year extra (about 25%) for 'flying school uses'. They want even more for Charter to cover legislated passenger liability insurance, around $250 a seat.

Really the on-line margins are paper thin (if not negative). Maintenance costs go up expotentially for on-line aircraft and you tend to get a lot of cosmetic wear and tear as well as deprecaition as the hours go on the airframe and come off the engine and prop. Then if you are sensible you have to add your capital cost. I have tried to cost all of that in a realistic way but the rates the schools are paying just come nowhere near. The best any aircraft on line can do is gain a bit of cost recovery. So unless an owner has some scheme to offset a massive ax loss or something, you won't see any of those nice aircraft that old blokes own on line any time soon.