LAME' pay/conditions

[skydozer]

Who out there feels under payed and under valued, sick of been sold short while the aircrews always seem to get the big dollars, who exposes them selves to more risk them or us?, what are your thoughts? I would like to know what the general feeling is, or is it just me!

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[JET SET SPARKY]

I think that feeling is almost universal mate!.....remember,as long as you get your hands dirty you will be viewed as 'pond life'...and anything that drains a companies profit(engineering of course) will never get the 'feeling of worth 'from the upper echelons of management!....Just remember , you fix the great white bird,they just drive it! if it was difficult to fly engineers would do it!
You may be more intelligent/common sensical/human than some of the seat-to-stick-interface we deal with....(has anyone seen the psych tests lately??) but they are doing the 'smart' thing as one F/O correctly pointed out to me.
If you've got the money,and can put up with the butt-kiss world of flight dick ,most of us could do it

[LME (GOD)]

I have yet to see a pilot that is expected to be current on several different types at the same time, while being expected to practically memorise large portions of the MM, all while managing a half hour turnaround. What's really annoying is when you're in the flight deck and everyone gets coffee but the engineer....come on girls and boys....think what we do and the conditions we do it in!!!

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It flew in, it'll fly out


[This message has been edited by LME (GOD) (edited 26 October 1999).]

[lame]

very pleased that you are worried about MY pay/conditions.......LAME......

[Blacksheep]

Actually the old saying is true if you think about it -- "Everyone is paid exactly what they think they are worth." It's what you settle for that counts. We Engineers seem to settle for less than the best.

The reason we don't get paid what we are worth is that we don't stick together; its an 'Engineer' thing I guess. When I worked in BA we all had to be in a union. Unfortunately, LAMEs were in the same union as all the rest of engineering and formed a minority. Result? No proper representation, erosion of differentials and lack of respect. Whatever we think and say about our airborne colleagues, they get better pay and conditions because they stick together, present a united front and refuse to accept anything less than the best.

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Noted. Please report further.

[spannersatcx]

If you are based in the UK why not get together with your fellow engineers and contact the ALAE for representation. It is after all the only body that represents the LAME. http://www.lae.mcmail.com

[Travelling Toolbox]

spannersatcx/skydozer, I agree guys. The rates of pay have allways been hopeless. I heard someone say the other day that the average age of a LAME in Australia was something like 53 and getting progressively older as each year passes. What does this mean? It means of course that we are not being replaced by the younger generations. Could mean that we will be able to ask what we like in salary in the near future cos thay aint got no one else around to do the work. Of course this is a two edged sword. THERE IS NO ONE ELSE AROUND TO GIVE YOU A HAND SO YOU GOTTA WORK TWICE AS HARD.

Just a thought.

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Does that screwdriver belong to Philip?

[Airbornespanner]

TravellingToolbox,
you are on the right track, I read that the average age in Australia is 65!!!!! Must be some old/experienced Guys out there. The way I see it is that we (the LAME's) will be in charge of a hanger full of AME's, trades assistance, and how ever else is available, running around more than now (if that is possible!!!) trying to monitor what is happening and then signing our life away for this work (of course for the same pay), I hope that there are some good hearted Insurance Companies out there willing to cover us. Also CASA is finding it hard to cope with the work they have to do, so I see more and more that there are consultants doing the work that they cannot handle. I recently completed a Safety Audit course which will allow me to do this, so more of us will probable take up this line of work thereby reducing even more the amount of LAME's in the coal front. What is it like on the UK and other country fronts?

[woftam]

Guys I couldn't agree more about your wages and stature.You deserve better,but slagging off at the guys up the pointy end doesn't help get either!
In fact it helps to lower one of them.

[skydozer]

Woftam, It's not that we are slagging you off, I personally do not think pilots are over paid but that we as engineers are underpaid, most of the guys in this forum know what it is like be in the sharp end holding a flight crew licence in some form or an other, most of the heavy metal drivers I work with a good guys and close friends. Airbornespanner - you speak the truth man, some many of the LAMEs that are well qualified and motivated are chosing to apply their talents else were, it is a shame,I still want to be a hands on engineer but that is not possible and still maintain some sort of normal life style....shame I do so enjoy getting the spanners out.
The recruiting issue is now a world wide problem and the quality of some of the trainies that I have had over the last few years has been very disapointing, most of the people you want are turned off by the industry once they find out that the money and conditions are not all they are cracked up to be still the odd good one gets through and if you can keep them on the floor in stead of being draw off to the flight deck they usually turn out to be good LAME's.
Blacksheep, I know what you are saying....we never seem to stick to gether but that I feel is because we are such a diverse group and do not have the command structure that is present with the pilots, but sticking together can have some adverse affects....Ansett New Zealand for inst.!!
Keep the comments coming guys/gals it's good to get a bit of this out into the open eh!

[Multi-X]

We all agree that pay & conditions are poor for engineers & that our numbers are decreasing. The worse thing about the shortage is that the only people benefiting from it are the contracting agencies.
Who else thinks that the ALAE should start up an agency? ALAE could make a profit & we would get a better rate rather than the agencies. If we all used one agency it would stop all others trying to undercut each other when bidding for contracts, where the only looser is the LAE.

Any thoughts?

[spannersatcx]

Multi-X, sounds good to me, drop them an e-mail via http://www.lae.mcmail.com

[skydozer]

I think the single group idea is a good one, I would appear to give us the unity we need without the intimidation of the union. How do we develop this world wide?, I think word of mouth would have to be the best way to start it so I will tell all the LAME's that I know and we will see what happens...... ideas, ideas, ideas, is what we need, it is about time we did something positive about it.
I think it was spannersatcx that kicked the single group idea off.....good thinking.... it may work or it may not but at least it is worth a try. One day aircraft engineers will be treated for what they are worth!!!

See if we can make a difference!

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[Airbornespanner]

Guys,

I agree that we should get together on a world wide basis and formulate a plan, and simply look at the following :

Firstly what do we really want to achieve?

How are we going to achieve this?

These are the starting points.
If we all were to submit our ideas then put them together we should be able to formulate a plan.

We should at all times be professional and to the point with what we are about.

Over to you all.