Services from Ireland to the Caribbean

[MarkD]

hi all

Since the dreaded stopover is still killing US/Canada route expansion, has EI ever looked at services to the EU possessions in the Caribbean like St Maarten, Martinique, Guadeloupe etc. GC distance is shorter than MCO (although ETOPS/weather might force a longer routing). Are all the Caribbean possessions similarly deregulated as intra-European flights are and thus stopover proof?

[jabird]

Mark,

Very good question, but it varies significantly from one island to the next.

The French "possessions" are, technically, iirc, departements of France, and I believe that flights to Guadeloupe and Martinique are classed as French domestic.

The island of St Martin is split into the French side (Esperance has a very short runway and some local flights) and the Dutch, on which the infamous SXM airport is situated.

Of the world's 7 "divided" islands, St Martin must have the most relaxed borders, but customs and immigration are still handled through the Dutch Antilles rather than France, though AF have a higher frequency of service to the island.

The Dutch Antilles also include Eustatius and Saba - good luck getting a heavy onto either of those, that would be fun! Out of the ABC islands (Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao), Aruba is "semi independent", but all three are c. 1 hour flying time south of SXM.

UK crown dependencies in the region include Anguilla and Monstserrat. MNI has historical links with Ireland, but tourism is heavily restricted due to recent volcanic activity and the fact that the recently opened airport only has a 600m runway. Vast majority of flights via ANU (transfers previously by boat or heli).

Bermuda is also a UK crown dependency, as I believe are the Cayman Islands, but I'm not sure if either would be classed as "part of the EU" like the French islands, considering that none of the Channel Islands or the IOM "enjoy" such status.

I would expect that there would be more of a market for the "Anglophone" islands, where English is the first language, and would guess that there would be huge amounts of bureacracy to open up flights to any of them, but I'm sure there are a few locals who could comment in more detail.

[MarkD]

jabird

thanks for the long reply!

[unmanned transport]

Barbados might be a viable route to/from Dub.

Barbados will gain their independence from England
this year.

[MarkD]

The EU membership is the issue - it immunises them from the stopover at EISN.

[DUBXH]

And EINN too ???

:ok:

[jabird]

UT, what are you on about? Barbados gained independence in 1966, so next year they'd be marking 40 years.

MarkD, in which case I believe that only the French islands would be classified as part of the EU, and my guess is that SXM would therefore NOT be counted, but would these flights still count as "intra-EU" anyway if they must pass through international air space on their way there? No idea on that one.

[no, no, no]

MarkD - I think you are referring to the legal system in Barbados - at the moment the highest court of appeal and the way laws and cases are run is through the British legal system etc - from this year they will drop links with the English law system and be fully self supported.

Don't know a lot about legal systems (otherwise would be paid a lot more in a different profession!) but it is something like that.

They are independant, but the Queen is still their head of state.

If anyone started a once a wek DUB-BGI could this not go direct? I thought the rule was that one out of every 2 flights to a region has to go via SNN - so if they only have one do they not avoid this?

[unmanned transport]

They are independant, but the Queen is still their head of state.
**************************************************

This year, they will be dropping Liz as their head of state.

[MarkD]

DUBXH - whoops! In vino dyslexitas unfortunately.

jabird - interesting point on the intl waters but aren't flights to places like Greece dereg-ed even though they pass over non-EU states...

no, no, no - I don't believe you can operate one flight a week - it would depend on the bilateral with Barbados. The Shannon lobby would ensure that 1/week would have to stop.

The problem is that SNN (EINN) seems to have been written into all the bilaterals. If bilaterals don't apply because the endpoint is an fully constituted part of the EU for deregulated air route purposes then any bilateral should have no force - you would think.