Mechanic (Engineer, Technician) Shortage

[redtail]

Management over here is complaining that they can no longer find qualified mechanics. Bummer. Reap what you have sown. All these years of driving down labor costs has resulted in fewer folks being interested in this field.
So the question is, is this also happening outside the U.S., and would you recommend this field to others to go into?

[greaseytech]

Hi Redtail

There is a shortage of qualified, skilled labour in the UK too, and it is directly as a result of lack of investment in training that has been going on for decades. Traditionally the big airlines and maintenance organizations have relied on people leaving the forces to fill the gaps, but with the peace dividend there are not the people around who have sufficient aero maintenance experience. There have been a lot of small operations that have blossomed and grown, and traditional operators, all of which have expanded their fleet. But true to form, the lowley Techie who never gets seen gets forgotten. Management expect us to work harder, and be 'multi skilled' but eventually something has to burst, so somebody interested in a career in aviation usually overlooks maintenance as an option, usually because of poor pay. But look on the bright side, you and I will never be out of work! Recently my lad was asking my opinion of career choice after school. I asked if he wanted to follow in my footsteps, and he wondered if I would be offended if I said 'No'. I was actually quite relieved. For me the fun has gone out of aircraft maintenance as a career because of financial constraints being placed by people who don't know our business.

[spannersatcx]

Taken from an article in the ALAE Tech Log http://www.lae.mcmail.com/ Is there a shortage of Licensed Aircraft Engineers? This question was posed by Tech Log of its readership in August 1970. It would appear that the author of the article did not really believe such a situation existed, in spite of the CAA (known at the time as the ARB)assessment of the LAE population. Tech Log quoted the ARB figures for the previous five years. They had set out a neat table of numbers to show how many new Licences were issued, how many extensions and how many renewals. Our article compared the figures over the five-year period and found that there was in fact an increase of 23% over the five years, in new Licences and 15.6% increase in renewals over the same period. The writer stated that the statistics disproved the ARB case that there was a shortage. I feel that he missed the point here, it is illogical to assume that just because more people were taking and renewing Licences, that there could not have been a shortage. He failed to mention the existing demand for engineers. We could have 5000 new Licences a year, but if industry is calling for 10,000 licensed engineers to certify their fleets, then Hey, we have a shortage.

So here we are in 2000, thirty years on and we still have a shortage, and only now the
situation is looking dire! Amazingly, the number of new Licences is only down by 90 over the last five-year period. So it would appear that roughly the same number of people are slogging through the licensing process as did thirty years ago. What is not happy news is the fact that renewals are down by 11,100 (this is not a misprint). The inescapable
conclusion one comes to is that LAE's are leaving the industry in their droves. It could be that many are not renewing until they can convert to a JAR-66 licence. Let's hope so.

[The hippy]

The young have a choice.
1/ Do a four year apprenticeship,then spend several years studying to get their countries qualification, followed by type courses, this then entitles them to long hours sometimes in poor weather conditions for little thanks and a salary that is just fair but not worth the responsibilty that the stress large companies can put upon them.
or
2/ Do a computer course over 3 years then join a firm that pays well lets you work in the dry /keeps you clean and shifts aren`t common.

Which would you choose now if given the chance again?

[rocketboots]

Now lets see.4 year apprentiship,2 years top to bottom for your tickets,courses that last months for your CRS.Back to work on the line on seven yes seven day shifts,waking up to go to work at 04.30 in the morning,for seven yes seven earlies on the spin,a few days off,and then back in for seven yes seven straight earlies all over again.This followed by the fact that i earn considerablly less wonga than the boys and girls serving tea and coffee on the longhaul fleets.In fact the sad truth is my salary is preety much now coming in to the same line as that of a manager at macdonalds.and just to cheer you all up,being represented by a union that has about as much in common with A/C maintenance as the pope does with riding harley davidsons.So having an A/C maintenance engineer shortage suprises nobody!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[redtail]

“But look on the bright side, you and I will never be out of work!” Ain’t it beautiful? Pay me now, or pay me later.
I think some of the blame for the problem lies with the unions, who have not leveraged demand for mechanics/engineers/technicians into higher pay for our group. When I started with a major airline, the pay was very good and compensated for the conditions (5 eight hour days on afternoons or nights, working all holidays, having to move across the country for a job/career). Since then the status and pay has slipped. I don’t think I would play the game again if I were to do it all over. What is sad at where I work is that we keep getting people coming in as mechanics who have come from other departments for the pay raise, not because of any mechanical calling. We have also reached the point where the airlines are hiring directly from the schools.

It sounds like in the UK the hours/shifts really stink. I am looking forward to ten hour days with rotating days off, but mainly to save money from commuting and to spend more time away from work. Rotating shifts will kill you, I would rather stay on midnights all of the time than to keep moving around. Currently I am on eight hour shift, six on/two off on a six week rotation (Sun/Mon, Mon/Tues, T/W, W/Th, Th/F/S, F/S/S)

[WideBodiedEng]

Over here in Ireland I have heard of people finishing training at Shannon Aerospace then going to Dell in Shannon! Other people have gone to Intel and Gateway as Techies (the folks in the Silver suits). The brother is a techie with Intel. His biggest hassle is the hot suit!!
He just HATES (yeah, right) the Canteen, the Fitness centre, the Share options, the Civilised Management, The 5 on 4 off followed by 4 on 5 off 12 hr shifts, the company funded "social" evenings for staff etc etc
Slap in your CVs lads'n'lassies!!
Still, I actually would still prefer my job! AM I MAD???

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The Stamp is mightier than the Toolbox!!

[JET SET SPARKY]

Hippy me old kipper........
i just love my job because;
a)the respect i get
b)the oodles of cash
c)the fresh air
d)the relaxed atmosphere
e)friendly banter with crews
f)the social scene
g)the'thank-you's'received

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.....they won't catch me!!!!!!!
--------------------------------------------
those white coats really suit you sir...no wait ! ....get off!...it wasn't me,it was the rabbit........fish.....damn!

[redtail]

JET SET SPARKY, you've got to put the megger leads on the equipment you're testing, not hold the leads in your hands. And quit turning the radar on and standing in front of the antenna with NE51 (neon) bulbs to see if it is really working.

Jeez, they let anyone in here.

If only my "fresh air" didn't have the occasional rain and/or snow blowing into my ears.

[greaseytech]

And here is another leg to this lead. A guy in our cycling club has just failed his interview with Brits, not for his technical knowlidge but for his lack of 'Company Prospective'. (I ask you). Apparently he was asked lots of bull**** questions regarding his knowlidge of Britannia. He thought he did all right, but he did not know the name of Britannia's servise for children. He wants to be an engineer for goodness sake, not a company mouthpiece. Well I hope my mate gets set up for his apprenticeship.

PS does anybody know of any places going for apprentice engineers in the Beds area?

[The hippy]

One thing about GOD`s hanger is someone with a sense of humour likes to have a joke with the temp/climate controls when your on nights!!!!!!


Ref unions are you tired of stores personnel and tech records people being the majority voters in your pay talks?
our`s have just accepted for us a 3.25% rise, if only we could get into seperate talks!!!

[spannersatcx]

The hippy, get all your LAE's together join the ALAE for £52 per year and you will have your own representation.
goto http://www.lae.mcmail.com for their website.

[redtail]

Hippy, you've got my sympathy. We just got out of that situation. Our new union isn't perfect, but it is a lot better than what we had before. We should have jumped in with ALPA years ago. It seems to be a struggle to get a bunch of mechanics organized; too many cantankerous independent individuals.

[The hippy]

spannersatcx yes i know alae are good but one of the problems is the mannagement wont reconnise them, they only used to allow a works committee (a rep from all sections stores,eng,fitters,tech records etc) up till last year. and a fitters union this year.
But yes I will join alae, as I know they are at least a voice in the big picture of things.

[This message has been edited by The hippy (edited 13 May 2000).]

[avo8]

Anybody think a change in pay scales would improve the situation ? Or is it people dont want hands on work anymore? :rolleyes:

[redtail]

Both. The money used to be very good (major US airlines), but the unions tried to get everyone in to collect their dues, and let the wages slip.
On the other issue, how many of you grew up helping your fathers, friends and family work on cars? I mean, if it wasn't being worked on in my family's driveway, I was riding my bike around the neighborhood and hanging around someone's elses. How many kids have that experience now? The tradition is going away.

[growler]

hippy, if 50% of the technician workforce want a union the management have to agree to it. That has become law since New Labour came in. The management at your place only recognised the mechs union because they got themselves organised at LTN and MAN. If the techs get organised across all stations and join ALAE en mass, then they too will have representation.One word comes to mind when discussing Techs @ M and union representation...... APATHY. Too many members of the 'Court Line Club' been there too long, looking forward to pension day, dont want to rock the boat etc etc.
Well, I guess thats that bridge well and truly burnt..................

[spannersatcx]

Hippy I believe Growler is spot on with regard to representation. Best check with the ALAE for all the legal stuff though. Glad you decided to join you now need to persuade a few more at your place, good luck, it'll be worth it in the end.

[redtail]

Prepare for visitors. We just got linked by http://www.the-mechanic.com/mainbb.html

[This message has been edited by redtail (edited 14 May 2000).]

[redtail]

The company I work for just posted a desperate plea in their in house news posting saying they are looking for people with electronics qualifications (FCC certificates)

I wonder if they will do anything to actually attract them?

[spannersatcx]

Another article on the shortages of LAE's from the latest edition of the ALAE Tech Log magazine ( http://www.lae.mcmail.com )
Royal Aeronautical Society Seminar

A group of Members attended a seminar on February 22nd at RAES Headquarters in London.
Keith Rogers gives us his report.

The subject was ' The Report of the RAES Aircraft Maintenance Engineering Task Force', which stemmed from a previous paper entitled 'The Challenge for the Future in 'Aircraft Engineering'. (This was reported by Mike Newman in issue number 250 - June)

The remit of the task force was to investigate the shortfall in the numbers of Licensed Aircraft Engineers and mechanics and
the reasons why.

The President Elect of the RAES, Trevor Trueman, welcomed everybody and introduced the speakers. The opening speech was given by Sir Malcolm Field, Chairman of the CAA. He gave an insight into the shortages, the causes and the problems the industry could face in the future. The next speaker, Roland Fairfield, a consultant and RAeS council member, illuminated Sir Malcolm's speech with various statistics shown on overhead projections. I have to thank him for allowing me to use some of them here. There followed speeches by Phil Hosey, Director of Quality at Fls Aerospace. John Parkinson, EC Relations Manager - Aviation Group of the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions, who was there to express the
Government's concern and suggest what they might be able to do to help.

So - what is the problem? It has been established that there is a growing shortage of LAE's and skilled workers in an expanding industry. The reasons are far ranging and can be seen below;

1) Decline of the UK's industrial and manufacturing base (many skilled workers were drawn into the industry from companies
such as Avro. de Haviland. Hawker, Vickers and Scottish Aviation. Because of the demise of such companies, there is now a gave shortage of skilled sheet metal workers)

2) The peace dividend which means the armed forces are contracting in size and so there are far fewer highly trained engineers leaving and wanting to continue in civil aviation. (These first two have been traditional recruiting grounds for the civil
aircraft engineering industry.)

3) National and international economics which have caused companies:
(a) to contract, cut their costs etc to remain competitive
(b) not to invest in their workforce through training and apprenticeships
(c) to operate with the minimum number of engineers in order to keep costs down, but at the same time increasing their
workload

4) Changing society - where the national education curriculum reflects the changing industrial base of the country and the
skilled artisan is now the person who understands computers and finance, where people want to make a quick buck for
minimum effort instead of spending long years in training for a job where they get their hands dirty whilst working in unsociable
conditions.

5) The industry does not promote itself.

SOME FACTS AND FIGURES
It has been calculated that the percentage shortfall of licensed aircraft engineers in the industry, including general aviation, are
as follows:
% SHORTFALL NOW NEXT YEAR
Licensed Avionics Engineers
16.3 16.1 (131)
Licensed Mechanical Engineers
7.0 10.1 (216)
Licensed Avionics Engineers
(excluding British Airways)
23.0 23.0
Licensed Mechanical Engineers
(excluding British Airways)
10.0 14.8


The figures above are for the industry as a whole and so include General Aviation. Because BA has the highest utilisation
of LAE's in the industry, the second set of figures have been given to Show, a more representative picture of the industry.

Over the last five years the number of new licensed engineers has averaged 87, which is equivalent to less than 1% of the
total 11,500 CAA AMEL holders at the end of 1998. Of the 11,500 30% reside overseas, 14% are over 60 years of age and 6% are in non-certifying positions.

The number of LAE's in the industry over the past 15 years has remained fairly constant at around 8-9000, whereas the number of aircraft has increased from 7000 to 14000. Last year saw for the first time, the number of large aircraft exceed the number of small aircraft. This can be evidenced in the number of start up airlines like Easyjet, GO. Buzz etc.
The industry has been in a spiral of decline over the past 15 years, companies have had to cut costs, training has been reduced, salaries have been reduced comparatively (up to a few y ears ago the salaries of aircrew and LAE's ran almost parallel, but now aircrew salaries are climbing away), staff have become disillusioned, morale has sunk-. LAE's have left the industry altogether or have become nomadic in search of higher rewards. Those who remain have been asked to do more and more (often through excessive amounts of overtime, which in the long term may increase sickness and stress rates) and
the number of maintenance related incidents has increased.
The message that came out of the seminar was quite clear. The industry has to do something to put itself on the night track.
Nobody, else can rectify the situation. It is a case of 'physician heal thyself'. Sir Malcolm made it clear that any companies
which did not have enough LAE's would be shut down or their operation suspended. So what can be done?

1) Companies should promote their engineering divisions in schools, colleges and within the careers advisory services.

2) Companies should make a job in the aero engineering industry more attractive.

3) Companies should invest in their engineering departments with more training especially more modem type
apprenticeships

4) They must have a good salary structure, which recognises the responsibility of LAE's

5) They must have a well-defined career structure, which, with item 4, will go towards improving the status of Licensed Aircraft Engineers.

John Parkinson of the DETR stated that while he could not reveal what their recommendation to the government would be, he said that they had been looking at way s of providing a legislative frame work which will persuade employers to recruit at ab-initio level. They had also been looking at funding of training. There should be no VAT on training or it should be recoverable. He indicated there was possible scope for Government to assist the industry to make it more attractive.
Keith Rogers








[This message has been edited by spannersatcx (edited 14 May 2000).]

[Penn Doff]

Spanners, another good bit of gen, it is however Sunday afternoon should you not be partaking of plenty of Beer instead of all that typing?

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"please report further"

[Grubbykev]

Well Hippy here in the U.K. it seems that the biggest problem is,as some people have already mentioned,that a school leaver ain't going to want to stick his/her arm round the u bend of an a/c toilet just to get it out on time.They would rather spend their time in an office in front of a computer generating paperwork for us and getting paid more than us for doing so.Can't say I blame them! BUT come the day when the industry realises that it's taken us for granted it may be too late.In the company that I work for I reckon you could count the amount of skilled metal workers @ LHR on your fingers.Some might say that you don't need to have this skill,but how are you going to fix that dink that the caterers have just left you eh? Think on industry bosses when you decide how many apprentices you can "afford" this year & the next,cos this situation is going to bite you on the bum if you ain't careful.British Aerospace & the R.A.F. can't keep the industry in young blood like they used to.It's up to you management types to make our deal a bit sweeter & then you might encourage people to join/stay in this game. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

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Spannering the gap (:-)

[Continuous Ignition]

Well gents, what are we gonna do to get the guys in the front office to finally pay us what we are worth?

Its been told to some guys in our hanger by the V.P. of Maintenance that quote "If we're here and motivated by greed, I hope to see all of you push your boxes out the door!"

Now if this is the attitude of managers all over, we are in for a long hard fight. Unfortunately, I dont think a lot of my co-workers are up for it.

We're not union here and for some unknown reason the guys wont vote one in. I think most are scared that they will lose the 4 on 3 off schedule they have and that the raises wont amount to anything much but will be eaten up in dues. So we continue on making it day by day as more leave our ranks.

I have heard from the CEO directly that we are NOT one of the majors and we wont pay what they do.

So what are the guys like me do, who have been here for several years and have enough senority to hold dayshift with weekends off?

Management here has a take it or leave it attitude. We have guys leaving the aviation field all together to work on Forklift trucks in a warehouse making several more dollars per hour than they were making here.

I would have left already, but for medical reasons and the lack of insurance right way at the prospective companies, I have to stay put.

For those who are interested, Aviation Week and Space Technology had a few articles a while back, on the impending MX crisis. I will email them to anyone who asks. They are quite long to be posted here...

Its quite interesting and raises some good questions for the guys in the suits...

Maybe when they have to start parking airplanes because their is no one to work on them, will the come around...




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Don't like it? Don't look at it!

[redtail]

We had a new VP of maint a few years ago tell us the same thing. "Don't like it here? Quit" That started a work slow down. Yes, we took a few casualties, but mainly from the scammers amongst us. We are still here, and the VP was "laterally transferred" to equipment service.

The Aviation Week issue was very good. They even said the evil phrases "Pay" and "Working Conditions". Maybe someone will notice before the house of cards falls down.

[Line_LAME]

zzzzzzzzz

[This message has been edited by Line_LAME (edited 20 June 2000).]

[Mice]

Do not kid yourself about the Aussie ALAEA. They have let the companies get too far in restructuring, now making themselves useless to all, as the LAME's are now too fragmented on serious issues, even between ports in the same company.
If they are so great, why are 20+ year licensed engineers being paid the same as a first year F/O with a regional airline flying a SAAB340? We used to have some parity with the Airline Captain, now we are far far behind, and as we are not considered 'Militant' we get crapped on by all companies.

They are no better than unions elsewhere it is just that there has been so much featherbedding over the years, there is a gross oversupply in Aus. However, it will come to an end in another five or so years, as retirements of the baby boomers come into play here.

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When all else fails, read the manual!

[Line_LAME]

Yawn

[This message has been edited by Line_LAME (edited 20 June 2000).]