Line V Hangar?

[Denzil]

What in your eye's makes for the best experienced engineer. The company I work for tend to treat the hangar guy's like lepers and will even leave the company in preference to working in the hangar. Is it the lure of the young cabin crew types or are they just afraid of a hard day's work.
Having worked both line & hangar i think you learn more in the hangar.

What do you think????

If in doubt DD it!!!!!

[freddie the fish]

I definately think that a great deal of experience can be gained in a hangar. I certainly learnt more after a year in a hangar than I did during the previous 3 on the line. I'm now back on the line and feel more confident on the aircraft. You get to learn where all the zones are,where things are and more detail about the aircraft in general.
Having said that, I was in a hangar in the RAF and was treated like a leper - especially as an avionic trade, so much so that that heavily influenced my PVR decision.
I have gained much valuable information in civil aviation hangars, not just about the aircraft but the way they are managed (or not).
The hangar experience has definately helped in a lot of ways, but depending on your status in a hanger will depend on the experience you gain. Some mechs are excluded or simply not interested in the aircraft sytems when it comes to fault finding or functional checks, so eveyones outlook on the subject will obviously differ.
I have worked with people who could embody any mod going, but would have no idea how to apply power to the aircraft in the first place! (no lie), let alone function the newly installed system.

------------------
NO FAULT FOUND

[Rusty Nail]

I think that most of the problem lies in the perception of what each group of people expect from each other. Also having worked in both areas of the industry, there is good and bad in both sides. The line guys appear to be happy to D.D everything until the aircraft comes into the hangar even though it may be on the ground for 12 hours, and the spare parts are sitting in the stores.
On the other hand, it is sometimes difficult to get the hangar guys out into the open air, if required to work on the line.
In the end it comes down to personal preference, and if you have overalls and a toolbox or a white shirt, leatherman and sunglasses (to be worn even if no sun).

[greaseytech]

I was seconded from Hangar to Line last summer and managed to stay out there for a bit longer, before they missed me too much and dragged me back, screeming with protestations that I wanted to stay outside, even in the freezing cold! I learned more about the systems on the line than in the hangar, because out there you need to get it right first time. In the hangar, if there is a snag, something is done to rectify it, but there is never any feedback that the sang has been cured.

I think that it is recognised that individuals fair in different roles. One guy might be more suited to a hangar environment, whil his mate mught be suited to line work. In the end it is up to the individual to find their own prefferences.

[Leatherman]

To be the fully rounded line guy you should have done your time in the shed and know the physical in and outs of the systems.I mean to give estimates on time you should know it takes an hour to depanel etc.To be a good shedie you would want to give a clean machine to the line so it will be O.K. downroute and if you,ve been there and done it and know all the problems and constraints then you wont be another shedie moaning on about the line and vice versa and we may not have another B.M.A. gearbox covers type scenario.They are now deviding us by license type too so dont make the rifts even bigger!

/

[spannersatcx]

Denzil, experience makes for the best experienced engineer! Whether it be in the Hangar or on the line. I personally have 15 years in the hangar and 5 on the line, at the moment I am on the line and enjoy it very much. IMHO working in the hangar is a good, and essential, grounding for working on the line you gain a tremendous amount of knowledge as to where a lot of things are and how they actually work etc. My first experiences as a certifying engineer were in the hangar and I believe this is a good place to start, for many reasons. The time pressures are less and you have more time to look at what you have in front of you and to research if neccessary. Also 99 times out of 100 there will be somebody who has experienced the problem before and can guide you.
On the line you generally have a very limited time 1 to 1.5hrs maybe to see what you have, defect wise, apart from doing the routine maintenance reqd by the transit/daily/etops check.
During this time you are subjected to a certain amount of pressure, time, can it go, can it be fixed etc. I believe that without the experience I have gained in the hangar sometimes it would be impossible to judge or gauge this. Pressure - it's there whether you feel it or not, commercial or otherwise, I personally enjoy the pressure and probably function better with it. (sad you may say). However, depending on the management and how the co operates, you have to be strong and have the courage of your convictions when faced with certain problems, I have no problems in having a delay if in my opinion it is unsafe for the a/c to fly, fortunately my superiors/quality are very good, but you have to be right you have to think on your feet and make the decisions.
I enjoyed most of my time in the hangar environment, but at the moment I enjoy the Line better, that will probably change in a few years when the -10 wind chill and snow and rain and wind have taken their toll.
One of our remits in our outstations is ADD clear ups, unlike Rusty Nail says we do not defer everything if we have the time and the spares we will do it, yes I am a bit of a slve driver, after all we are paid to work. So the upshot is if you like the hangar stick woith it if you like the line stick with that, at the end of the day the Line engineer with around 15 years experience in the hangar is probably best, oh sounds like me.
Reading between the lines there seems to be inherent problems at your co, mainly I guess down to management attitudes/approach, don't allow them to treat you like lepers, until they wake up to the fact that why peoiple are leaving it will never change.
Rusty Nail, if an a/c sits on the ramp for 12hrs and all the line do is DD stuff I would suggest that people need to get together and sort things out, perhaps you could get some browney points by coming up with a suggestion/plan to sort it say 50/50 line/hangar people to work the a/c. I can't believe management allow an a/c to sit for 12hrs and it not be worked.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Experience is certainly about 75% of it, I'd say the other 25% is attitude.

An obsession with attention to detail, patience, and a healthy lack of trust in one's own abilities count for a lot. Add to that a strong desire to keep getting better - whether it's in adding tickets, or learning other people's approaches, or just improving personal skills.

That's my view as a company Chief Engineer (2nd company, 4th year in the role). The one thing I really dislike is Engineers or technicians who qualified years ago, feel comfortable, and just wish to muddle on for as long as it takes to retire - sadly I've had a few, there's not even any point in spiking their interview boards if they go for promotion, you can guarantee from their attitude they won't have done their homework.

G

[SeldomFixit]

Couldn't agree more Ghengis - 10 years in the barns gave me the confidence to stand, somewhat shakily at first, on my own 2 Line engineers feet. Now, after a further 20 years on line which has seen the industry provide me with a good living and all the essential and non essential travel an individual could ask for, I am still keen to learn and ALWAYS want to know what the fix was if I have had to defer it back to the base.
Attitude just about sums it up. A good hangar guy is worth his weight in gelt - just glad it isn't me any more though.

[JAFCon]

The best kind of Engineer is the one that can admit he make's the odd mistake cause any Engineer that has never made one is a liar and a Danger to all!!!!!, But working in the Hanger helps you learn all the ins and outs of the Aircraft, Which can only be good for you. And working on the Line helps you think on your feet (I prefer the Line, a diffrent challange everyday) Being able to listen to other people and admit that you dont know it all.