TCAS for helicopters

[McGowan]

Does anybody know if there is a TCAS style gaget out there that doesn't cost the earth?
I was talking to a conehead (read radio tech) some time ago and he mentioned an upgrade or add on for the Garmin 530. It was going to be released towards the end of this year and it wasn't all that expensive.
Have had some horror quotes around US$21,000 not including instalation. Mark one eyeball still sounds good.........

[Ascend Charlie]

The simple answer is not just "No", but "F****ing NO!"

We recently installed TCAS, a Ryan 9900BX, which is an excellent piece of kit, and the cost was around Aus $55,000. It took 6 days of fiddling to instal it, too. But at the speeds your bird gets around at, it gives those extra few seconds of warning before the window fills up with bugsmasher.

Just be thankful you are not operating a bizjet, because TCAS 2 will set you back over $300,000:{

[TheFlyingSquirrel]

So those little £700 boxes are worthless then? Anyone use them and find them ok?

[Sabre Zero 1]

Plonquer Pilot has a mobile TCAS that he uses. I'm not sure of the make or the cost. I'll try and get him to put up a post on this thread....

[Helibelly]

So there I was at 270' agl, doing some pipeline inspection work, the TCAS goes off and tells me that someting is approaching very fast indeed, so down into the weeds I go in time to watch a lovely flyby from a RAF tornado. In the UK at low level it was a god send and I don't belive it cost the earth either. PM me and I'll put you in touch with my old company so they can tell you where they get them from.

[inthegreen]

We have the Garmin 430/530 stackup with TCAS on the 530 which comes through the Garmin GTX 330 transponder. It's not actually called TCAS on that system, but Traffic Information Service (TIS). I'm not sure what the distinction is. Anyway, it works great. The TIS displays up to 8 responding aircraft within 7nm horizontally within a block of airspace 3,000 ft below to 3,500 ft above your aircraft. It gives a projected flight track of the aircraft and a trend, up or down. There are limitations. The system only picks up aircraft that are responding to ATC TIS radar sites and/or have a transponder onboard and operating. If the target aircraft is too low or does not have a transponder, it's invisible to the TIS. The Garmin 430/530 can also accept weather datalink info and Terrain Avoidance info as well. The whole setup is expensive, but one of the best packages that I've seen.

[McGowan]

inthegreen,
Sounds like you have the same setup we have in the 407, also sounds like i want the TIS thing you have........
I'll get our maitenance mob to look into it a lot further.
To all thanks for the imput, a great help. Keep it coming.....

[BlenderPilot]

The Garmin setup that relies on the TIS system needs ¨FAA Traffic Information Services (TIS)¨in order to work, this means that it need the aircraft to be in radar coverage, and that the radar facility needs to be compatible with the new mode S transponders.

This renders the system useless in the larger part of the world, I know a guy over here who just spent some great deal of extra money to install this in his new Bell 407´s only to discover that the system was usless as soon as you left our very limited Radar coverage.

True TCAS works regardless of radar coverage, if you have an aircraft in range with an operating transponder, TCAS will let you know about it, the GArmin setup (TIS)on the other hand uses the Radar site information, and then relays it to you, no radar, no warning.

I might have some of this a little mixed up but the general idea is correct, no radar contact, and TIS is useless.

[Oogle]

Remember, TCAS only works if the other aircraft have their transponders on.

Alot of bugsmashers out there that don't have radios let alone a transponder!

[cyclicmicky]

Heeeey, Squirrel
we have one of those little boxes on our enstrom, its ok for what it cost. Gives distances up to 5 Nm and altitude above or below, unfortunately there is no bearing so you have to keep your peepers well and truly peeled if something keeps reducing in distance from you.
It still needs the transpoder from other aircraft to be on though!!
is it correct that transpoders will become compulsory soon??,
about time if this is the case.
:ok:

[996]

Helibelly uttered: "So there I was at 270' agl, doing some pipeline inspection work"

Interesting. Surely at 270' AGL range to target is an issue? Given the closing speed. Did you have an audible warning? IME - if not, then if your eyes are not permanently glued to the unit I'd seriously doubt you'd have enough time form visual pick up to response. Not at that height anyway. Must have been a near miss eh?

[ShyTorque]

Our TCAS alerts at a greater range if it's a "high speed closer" or "rapid climber / descender".

I think it gives a calculated 20 second warning, irrespective of speed; but don't take me to task on that as I don't have the manual handy.

Used as an integral part of a normal lookout scan, it's invaluable. I recently flew a fixed wing without TCAS and I felt very vulnerable, especially as the field of view through the windscreens is worse than the helicopter I normally fly!

Contrary to what those doubters who haven't used it might think; TCAS makes you look OUT more, not inside.

It's quite worrying how poor the naked eye can be at picking up other aircraft, having tried to visually aquire TCAS targets (and I've got 6/5 vision according to my AME).

Mode C for all transponder equipped aircraft would be nice; to minimise false alerts due to no TCAS perceived height separation. It's very worrying to waste time looking for a "Mode A only" aircraft that turns out to be well separated in altitude - a more relevant aircraft in the meantime might be missed (it takes quite a bit of self discipline to keep the full scan going with "TRAFFIC, TRAFFIC" blaring out and an amber TCAS visual target flashing at you!)

[Helibelly]

Hi 996,

the TCAS has a nice lady that say "traffic" then you take your eyes off the outside world and look at the little screen on the TCAS which is like a little radar, giving a postion and relative height of the conflicting traffic, it certainly would have been a near miss without the TCAS, kind of fatal near miss me thinks :@)

[996]

Hello Helibelly, you wrote:

*the TCAS has a nice lady that say "traffic"*

Ah...so the version/make you have is 'wired' in to the IC? Well that is a bonus. Well I mean, it means you need not look at it untill there is some thing to be bothered about. That is indeed a bonus because to my mind - the whole thing is a distraction otherwise.

what type and aircraft?

[ShyTorque]

996,

On what experience do you base that opinion - have you flown regularly using TCAS?

Just curious why you think it is a distraction.

[helisteve]

Have a look at the trafficscope vrx on www.surecheckaviation.com - not a true tcas but not bad for the dollars

[McGowan]

Helisteve,
Thanks for that, seems to be the closest thing I can get that doesn't cost the same as the 407......
I will be looking into it.

[Ascend Charlie]

Terry,

Before you rush into this one, it looks like it depends on you and the other traffic already being painted by ground radar. It doesn't send out its own interrogation pulses, so someone else must be relied on to do it for you.

Down in the weeds near Cessnock, nobody will paint you and it is useful as a long-tailed cat in a roomful of rocking chairs.