flight mech duties

[Leatherman]

Just to get some views on flight mechanic duties.Do you like to do it?Isn't it awkward from both sides when there is a contracted agency/airline?When should your duty start and stop?
And with the KAL/STN matter in mind it seems that the work was not recorded and the tech log copy not kept by the agent.Do you think all these grey areas should be looked at closely?

[growler]

As a Licensed engineer your duty starts and stops within Airworthiness Notices and JAR145. You do not bow to commercial pressure. Any company that disciplines you for refusing to do so would be hung drawn and quartered by the respective NAA. If life is made hard for you by them, you move on to the next employer. If you give in to them, and god forbid, there is an incident/accident, the worst case scenario for you is prison, with the potential loss of 100's of lives onyour mind. The most likely scenario is loss of licence. An engineer without a licence is about as much use as a pilot without a licence. Believe me, it is just not worth it to cut corners.
I had the misfortune to be on duty when an incident occurred, although not directly involved I was held accountable as the Senior Supervisor. The days and nights of worrying immediately after, awaiting results of the inquest, all sorts of horrible thoughts go through your mind. In the end, it all came out ok on my side, but the worry hurt both me and my family.
So as I said,Airworthiness Notice #3, JAR 145.50 and ANO Articles 10 and 12; read and digest.

[Leatherman]

Agreed,Growler,what with all of the AWN's,BCAR's,JAR,and the much vaunted(by the company anyway,)company proceedures/ops manual(which includes your job description)we as UK lame's are well defined and regulated.And as you say,watch out even if you are slightly associated with any type of incident it will affect your life and that of your family.
But I don't know if you have read the AAIB latest report on the KAL/STN initial findings?

[growler]

Yes Leatherman, I have. I wouldn't want to be the poor avionic engineer who carried out the work but didn't ensure that the log was cleared and torn. I have to admit that I'm not sure where you're responsibility would finish in that situation. It appears that the KAL engineer told him he would clear the log. I think if it had been me I would have sat on his shoulder until he did so, ensuring that everything was entered correctly. Or do I have 20/20 hindsight?

[Blacksheep]

Oh growler, how nice to work in a perfect world! Out here in reality no-one has even heard of JAR 145 or airworthiness notices let alone follow them. Some Local Airworthiness authorities wouldn't be able to read an FAA AD until you paid them a backhander!

I once had a good stint from Kathmandu to Nagoya and back - round trip, no layover. Four flight crew changes but poor old dogsbody is with the aircraft for 42 hours continuously. Company refused to meet my overtime claim - SOP. Only did three months there, training locals but they have to live with those conditions permanently. I imagine that our poor departed colleague on the KAL 747 was on a similar deal. It's a tough life but the family has to eat. Sad, but that's reality for a lot of our profession.

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Info noted. Plse report further.

[growler]

I'm afraid I have to confess here Blacksheep. My experiences of working away from the UK have been limited to detachments with a UK company well regulated by CAA UK or Australia. Therefore, duty times etc. although sometimes long have been met with overtime payments and time off etc. I do understand that in some parts of the world (probably too many)things aren't as straight forward, hence my comment about 20/20 hindsight.

[spannersatcx]

I haven't seen the AAIB report so don't know the ins and outs. If the KAL engineer was responsible for clearing the log and releasing the a/c then it is irrelevant who carried out the work as he is the one responsible for the a/c, as we all are when we sign the CRS. If the log was not cleared then the crew should not of accepted the a/c without the CRS and release for flt signed.
You may be interested to know that the airline I work for has recently introduced a limit on hrs I am allowed to work, primarily in an AOG situation, max 16hrs with a minimum 8hr rest period. This was brought about by a study into human factors. Nml shift not to exceed 12 hrs. A step in the right direction, 8hrs rest means 8hrs at home so time away from work would be 10hrs, of course if fatigue sets in then it is incumbent on me to invoke AWN 47 declaring I am unfit for work. Which I have done without recourse. The trouble is as said earlier, you need to be in a company that does recognise this and does work within the rules.

[The hippy]

Spanneratcx

go to the following web site

http://www.open.gov.uk/aaib/sb2-2000.htm

worth a read!!!!!!!!

[gas path]

Spanners.. thats interesting I would like to see my co's position on that.
Normal practice in an AOG away from base no matter how long the flt. is to fix a/c first then jump on a/c and position home. mind you I must admit when airplane fixed we tell 'em to stuff it and have at least one day off doing the things one normally does sightseeing and drinking!! ;)

[SCXmechanic]

Howdy all,

Can some one tell me what kind of duty regs you all have in your country?

Here in the states, the FAA says we must have 24 hrs off in a 7 day period. No daily hour limits. I know for one, my airline doesnt give a damm about the number of hours you work. I'm a flight mechanic and have been expected to work as many hours as they assign me.

Just recently, I was asked to do a trip from Minneapolis to Chicago to San Jose Costa Rica to Liberia Costa Rica back to Chicago and onward to Minneapolis. Leaving at 6am local and returning at 0030 local. Then they wanted me to catch a 7am, DC-10 to Miami the next morning to ride it all day.

I kicked and screamed till this was removed from my schedule. But the higher-ups were un happy about it. There have been numerious occasions where I was on an airplane 19 hrs a day, get to the destination and have to do a RON check. I would get to the hotel about 6 hrs before the next departure, get 3 hrs sleep and have be back at the airplane 2 hrs prior to the glory-boys, and have there ship ready for them. I would ride again for another 19-20 hrs overnight at some other strange city and do it again.

Things arent that bad these days. I've learned to stand my ground with the **** holes. But wish we had some goverment limitations on how long we are required to work.

And just so you know, I am a salaried person, so I dont get overtime for all the hours I work.

See ya!
Mike



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Dont like it? Dont look at it!

[Leatherman]

well SCXmech you are a busy bee eh?Generally U.K. airlines do not use a travelling mech,unless for various reasons the route stations cannot fulfill their tasks and have let home base know.This could be .New aircraft type and outstation not yet trained.Mechs on vacation or national hols.
Strikes etc. but that would be unusual.No contract or dispute financially with third party.Well all that sort of thing.We have an airworthiness notice no47 which we could disqualify ourselves from duty if we felt unwell or were on medication or tired out and quote it to the employer.But I think most guys will stay with the aircraft and fix it and claim the time off or overtime payments and expenses when back home.