View Full Version : Crew Resource management training in New Zealand and Australia
Hi Guys and Gals.
This is a purely speculative post.
Can anyone tell me what the rules and regs are for the provion of CRM training in your area?
I am a UK CAA licenced CRM(Groundschool) trainer and I was just hunting around for any oportunities.
Are you guys mandated to receive CRM training as we are in the UK(both Aircrew and Maintainers)?
Any info would be appreciated. I have been hunting through the NZ CAA website, but I have found little info so far.
Cheers
SSE
The answer, basically, is no.
I am a JAR accredited CRM trainer and checker (in the sim), and there is no requirement here for that type of training - although some of the airlines do have some internal CRM training. It isn't required though.
MOR,
Thanks for the gen.
Bang goes one good idea then.
Still no harm in trying.
piontyendforward
24th Jul 2005, 20:59
Air NZ had an advert looking for a CRM instructor a couple of weeks ago.
For airlines the CRM requirements are in their part 119 AOC exposition, so most CRM instruction is run inhouse.
king oath
24th Jul 2005, 23:10
Qantas have their in house system. Usually line pilots volunteer for the role. Some of them do a very good job at it.
They are rostered for days off the line, when they provide the latest CRM messages to the troops.
There may be an opportunity there, if the productivity of the CRM line pilots released from these duties matched the cost of dedicated CRM instructor. I'm purely guessing here but maybe you could put a proposal to them.
There's nothing to lose by putting your case.
king, that option has already been canvassed and rejected (I think).
Facilitating CRM to QF crew and getting the message through is hard enough when it comes from someone who is actually doing the same job day in, day out (last few months not withstanding). For the mesage to come from someone 'outside' of that environment is putting a pretty big obstacle in front of the message. One may be cheaper but the more expensive option may just be more effective! I'll fess up though and say that I have no QF data to support that but I can point to a few different examples from the USA which will support that position- at least for recurrent training. Initial training may be a different story entirely.
Keg said:
For the mesage to come from someone 'outside' of that environment is putting a pretty big obstacle in front of the message.
I did a double-take when I read that.
Keg, no disrespect to you mate, but that points to a problem with the audience, not just the facilitator or instructor.
Pilots take tax advice from accountants, they take investment advice from financial advisers. Why not take team building/leadership/communications advice from a specialist in that field?
Sure, not all CRM instructors are created equal. But I have seen nothing in the past to suggest that a company line driver with a part-time interest in CRM is any better than an Applied Psych grad with a part-time interest in aviation.
Walking into a CRM session with the attitude "this prick has nothing that he can teach me" just because he wasn't an operational pilot in your company -- just plain ignorant.
Why not listen? The pimply faced git from the ivory tower might say one thing that could save your arse and your career one day. You are paid to be there, you get free coffee, and if you pick your possie well you can have a good perve at the FA's on the course who usually dress nicely for such company courses ;)
ITCZ, I'm pretty sure you've mis-interpreted my post- or at least my position when it comes to CRM.
...a problem with the audience...
I couldn't agree more but to be fair, it isn't a majority!
On a personal level, I've got no dramas with taking advice on CRM, Leadership or other human factor skills from anyone- even moreso when they have either qualifications or experience in the field.
When I spoke about it being hard to get the message through from someone who does the job day in day out', it was actually me that I was referring to as the person presenting the message. I'm one of those that actually facilitates the recurrent CRM programme in Qantas. The quote you put up is regrettably from first hand experience. I've got a couple of letters after my name (which I have never actually put there) and a couple of other quals which probably puts me a bit in front of the 'part time interest' bit- as do probably more than half of the pilot facilitators in QF.
My apologies for not making my comments a little clearer in the first instance.
Keg, no worries, and upon examination evidence supports the thesis that the non-SOP end of the stick was momentarily under my control :O