Lydd Happenings

[britkit]

Just thought I'd let everyone know what's going on down here in sunny Lydd - sorry London Ashford, as they want us to call it now!

Atlantic Bridge Aviation (the 'Gordon' Brothers) sold out to FAL aviation. The new owners have been spending money on the place like it's been going out of fashion (though not necesserily on the right things!).

Runway has been redesignated 03/21 (from 04/22), has been resurfaced and is currently being grooved. ILS on 21 is in place, though the Localiser might need moving to accommodate the approach properly.
Old Runway 14/32 is now disused on the southern side of 21, and on the northern side, is now designated the Bravo Apron, with 8 new stands capable of taking large bizjets to B737's and larger.
Instrument Approach Procedures are currently being looked over by CAA, but the word on the airport is they should be approved soon.

The Air Traffic Service has been upgraded from Air/Ground Radio (if you could call that an air traffic service!) to Aerodrome Flight Information Service, with the intention of going to full Air Traffic Approach Procedural Control as soon as we get all the preparatory work done - which we keep getting told is soon.

The existing hangar has been refurbished, and they are part way through doing the terminal. Quite why, when plans exist to knock them both down and replace with new ones in a couple of years time, is beyond me. Talking of the terminal, our new Fixed Base Operator, FAL Aviation is meant to start operations on 26th Julyish.

An environmental and road traffic study are currently being done in order to salve the NIMBY brigade, who are quite vociferous down here. After that plans will be submitted for an approx 300ft Runway extension on the 21 end, which means we'll be accommodate B737 A320 and the like.

That's about it! I'll try and keep everyone up to date with things as they progress, but that's as much as I know for now.

Britkit

[airhumberside]

Any new routes likely or will it remain Le Tourquet only for a while

[tilewood]

Whilst I would like to see Lydd grow and succeed, it suffers
from the same problem as Manston: poor surface links
and catchment area.

I hope I am proved wrong.

[LTNman]

The NIMBY's are already out http://www.rye-tourism.co.uk/home/link.asp?reclink=http://www.kentnet.org.uk%2Flaag%2Findex.htm According to them Lydd will end up as busy as Luton http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/4696647.stm

[paddyboy]

http://www.anchoredbygrace.com/smileys/sleep.gif

Apologies if wrong but...

Self praise is no praise.;)

[smallpilot]

... and the girls on the desk are very cute! ;)

[Taildragger]

Tilewood....You just got in before me with the M word.
Lydd v Manston .... End of the road in the Romney Marshes vs End of the Road at Ramsgate. It's still the end of the road anyway, and Lydd has always been a good destination for clearing Customs in the days when you had to...(Mostly) but multiple Pax destinations ex there.?? I don't think so. I am not a naysayer, but I do have a knowledgeable opinion on the possibilties out opf that part of the world. For those who disagree, I suggest an Internet search on the aviation history of that part of the world will show that Le Touqet (Lovely as that place is) is fairly well the limit of it's horizons. or perhaps Jersey, Calais, or em, urmmm,??
If hopes that an airport will succeed are enough, then good luck. I think, like Manston, they are just pipe dreams.

[TCAS FAN]

Unless the Dungeness nuclear power station is going to close, and MOD are persuaded to give up their ranges to the SW of Lydd, or whatever you want to call it, it's hard to see how any significant development can succeed.

Best of luck for the new owner/backer, I'd personally put my investment money in a US $ deposit account in Dubai!

[Stampe]

Still a great destination and getting better with all the investment.Given Rochesters recent price increases its cheaper now to land my aircraft at Lydd than Rochester and only pennies more than Headcorn no contest given all the facilities.Pity they can,t find a way to put in a short crosswnd strip wouldn,t need to licensed for us light tailwheel types!!.The wind sure does blow down there sometimes but I guess at their prices we don,t generate that much cash for them.I hope they prosper.:ok:

[jabird]

I'm sceptical about the commercial viability of Lydd too, looking at Manston's progress so far, especially as Lydd is trying to sell itself as a London hub.

However, the timescale might be an important issue here. Something that would appear not to make commercial sense today might look very different, considering:

1) How many years will it take to build a runway extension and terminal? I can't see how any progress would get made without a full public inquiry.

2) Ashford will have even better domestic rail connections when the new Eurostar link opens.

3) LGW continues to fill up, and can't even consider a new runway until 2019.


I'd see the nuclear power station as a typical nimby "deterent". Easy to get emotional about it, but not sure that the real risk is all that great. And I love the bit about protecting the marshes, rather than the usual back yards.

[HZ123]

This is destined to failure unless the infrastructure is improved by about 1000%. The area for a vistor is like something out of a Robert Louis Stevenson novel i.e.Kidnapped. If Manston continues to struggle I cannot see who would commit themselves to flying from Lydd, there are already enough airports in the South East from the operators point of view. As a yardstick you will need to watch how or if Southend develops in the future because if it proves a sucess then Lydd could take off maybe. If there is a continued spell of the present conditions in the UK then there will soon be a fall off in LC and other operators yields that is in addition to the falling economic conditions which will effect air travel.

[tilewood]

HZ 123 writes that Lydd should see how Southend develops.

There are certain crucial differences between Southend and Lydd.

Southend has a catchment area independantly assessed at 5million within one hour of the airport.

It has a fast commuter railway service to London that passes
alongside it's eastern boundary.

It's expansion is given high priority within the vast Thames Gateway project now taking shape east of London to the
estuary.

Whilst non of the above provide a guarantee of success at least
they are plus points for any prospective carriers.

Manston's difficulties reported today on other threads should
perhaps give Lydd some pause for thought.

[britkit]

I agree with what some of you say regarding the infrastructure issue, but Lydd is only half an hour from the nearest motorway (Jct 10 of M20). As for public transport, there is an idea to get a direct link to the airport from the existing railway line to the west of the airport (used to serve Lydd Town, but at the moment is only used to transport nuclear waste). The local council have already got the airport doing traffic surveys on the B road that serves it.
Routeswise - nothing but Le Touquet at the moment, apart from the odd charter elsewhere.

[flying_tyger]

i've been down in Lydd recently, and saw the airport and i'd like to look at doing a feasibility study into the expansion of this airport for my university final year project.

I've seen the NIMBY side from the lydd airport action group - and ive acutally been to the airport to see what was going on (which really wasnt much! quite a ghost town - or did i see it on a bad day!) - in all honesty the thought that this could become as quoted by some sources "the next luton" i find hard to believe.

Despite it being half an hr from j10 - what happens when there are accidents on the motorway - the journey time can triple! The roads around that areas arent really designed for airport traffic either. its a rural area.

The infrastructure does need some work too - better roads, the buses are infrequent from the catchment area and the railstation is no longer used.

Previously its been stated that Lydd could be come a regional airport - I had my doubts when i first started looking into this - but after Manston has gone - this really confirms that I dont (personally) feel that there is the catchment for it.

Would there be any market for cargo aircraft?

As im looking at doing this for a disseration - I'd love to hear views from everyone - both in the area and outside of it.

Cheers - FT.

[HZ123]

I seem to have a case, I hope I am proved wrong but for the foreseeable future surely this is a non starter. Let us hope that Manston can see how it fares with another operator ?

[niknak]

No one has published a business case for the success of Lydd, it remains over 60 miles from the centre of London, it has no decent road or rail links to London, and most importantly, it's runway is too short at less than 1900m and doesn't have the capacity to handle large jets.

Despite the recent investment from a very brave gentleman, a certain name is still associated with the place, which is why no one wants to work there.

[flying_tyger]

can any one PM me with any information about Lydd which might be useful, views, opinions or people who might be useful to talk to about the expansion of Lydd airport?

[britkit]

As I understand it, plans for a new terminal have already been drawn up, together with a full maintenance installation and new control tower. There are also plans for a three-storey hotel in the grounds of the adjacent golf course (which we also own).

Included in those plans is a desire to resurrect the Lydd Town to Ashford Rail link, which would considerably ease journey times.

What a lot of people forget is that Lydd was built as a commercial airport from the very start (after the move from Lympne in the 1950's). In it's day it was busier than Gatwick with the car ferry flights, with only the Ro-Ro ferries putting paid to that in the 1970's.

The point made about accidents on the motorways enroute to the airport is I'm afraid a 'non-issue'. Accidents will always happen on the roads, bad weather will always happen at airports therefore delays are inevitable, that's why the rail link would be ideal, if, (if you'll pardon the pun) we can get it off the ground. It's not like the track is not there and not in use, it is on both counts - just not by passenger-carrying trains at the moment.

[Robing]

You might want to keep an eye on

http://www.larag.org.uk/

Or for movements today

http://www.larag.org.uk/Saab 2000 LAA Aug 2005.jpg

We have some senior people on the LARA group and I have high hopes.

I will post the results of the first meeting and some details on railway line reopening during September.

[jabird]

Robing,

Wow, could this be a first - an airport rail link gets developed in the UK before the airport itself does.

I'm always one for "integrated" transport, but it is so rare for the horse to be put before the cart as such. Presumably, the case for this type of link is also bolstered by the other potential users of the line?

[Robing]

jabird

Yes, this part of the world needs better transport links.

Some folk will remember the Folkestone to Honiton trunk road signs, what is now, for the most part, the A/M27 West of Lewes.

Whilst a Hastings bypass has not found approval the improvements to the South coast rail service are coming along very well. A new station at Hastings and through running.

From January 2006 the proposed timetable for trains along the south coast offers a 100 minute service Brighton-Ashford (and vv).

Connecting into this, the Ashford rail hub (Benelux, France) and the fast link to London looks like a sensible idea for the air carrier community, staff and residents.

[anguspm]

As I remember it from a good many years ago (grew up in Lydd) the line would have to have a large investment between Appledore and Lydd to correct the level crossings. Is this still the case? I know the line was always restricted in terms of train speed due to the old rails but maybe this has changed...

[Andy_S]

As I remember it, even when you reach Appledore the main line is single track.

[anguspm]

Andy,

Yep, certainly is

[wdh]

What a lot of people forget is that Lydd was built as a commercial airport from the very start (after the move from Lympne in the 1950's). In it's day it was busier than Gatwick with the car ferry flights, with only the Ro-Ro ferries putting paid to that in the 1970's. But what some people remember is that even in Lydd's heyday it was still pretty quiet... and the routes were, umm, Le Touquet and..?
At one time wasn't Croydon much busier than Heathrow? No one seriously suggests that as a reason for putting London's next airport in Croydon. Although, perhaps...

[Taildragger]

Britkit .....

I don't know what you are smoking, but I sure would like some.!
Why would anyone battle their way across the Romney Marshes
when Manston is just up the road, and easier to get to.?
The new owners of Manston have (According to their opening statement) taken a very large reality pill. There IS a market out there and it consists of the immediate catchment area (Margate, Canterbury, Maidstone) AND Freight. I can't see a Semi-Trailer negotiating the Marsh roads anytime soon. Lydd in it's heyday did not have to compete with Cross Channel Ferries, nor The Tunnel.......that's why it's quiet today. It doesn't even have the GA traffic that used to clear customs and immigration there.

[NorthSouth]

britkit:the rail link would be ideal, if, (if you'll pardon the pun) we can get it off the ground. It's not like the track is not there and not in use, it is on both counts - just not by passenger-carrying trains at the moment.So what would the preferred option be - 600 metres of covered travelators across the fields from the current line to the terminal, or a new branch line northwards to a station in the airport? Either way it sounds like there'll have to be a lot more dipping into those Saudi bank accounts.

NS

[HZ123]

The only safe guard the airport has is that it is to remote to build a housing estate on and in the forseeable future.