View Full Version : Jump seats a thing of the past

20th Jul 2005, 13:07
Jump seats a thing of the past

Seems that DoTRS have rushed their security act through and if you follow the letter of the law, non staff (except for the regulator on duty) not even ATC staff will be permitted to ride. Only employees, but only when there is not a seat in the back. Its what you get when there is no consultation and political motivation is behind the changes!

As one associate said, "I would trust my wife before some staff member with an ASIC that I didn't know".. too true. This whole thing sucks surely somebody will wake up some time?
:mad: :mad:

20th Jul 2005, 14:04
Simple logic would suggest that having even more level headed friendly faces in the cockpit should be a good thing, especially if it means we then outnumber the chopstick welding morons in the cabin. Even opening an unlocked flight deck door with all the jump seats full can be difficult - just to pass in a cup of coffee! If there were more friendlies on the flight decks of the 4 planes responsible for all this then maybe things would have been quite different today.

This silly legislation probably allows a few company ASIC holders in, but I'd rather have my brother in there with us than a recent hire from catering.

Since captain/crew discretion should prevail, I can only assume crew have no representation at all at DoTRS ... or he/she is ignored.

I recall a day or two after 9/11 hearing world leaders tell us that the perpetrators of those events would not change our way of life and if we allowed them to, then the crazy B%&*#!s would have won. Well, I guess by their own definition they have.

20th Jul 2005, 20:29
Its been like that in Europe for a couple of years now. Even staff cant ride on jump seat. Not even qualified crew, unless rostered as part of crew.

Its all daft, and does nothing for security...

The Messiah
21st Jul 2005, 09:36
Has been this way in most of the world for a few years now.

As usual Australia are just catching up.

MIss Behaviour
21st Jul 2005, 23:41
Have not seen the latest update however up until now employees with ASIC id and their staff travel beneficiaries (with approved ID eg drivers licence) could also ride in the jump seat however any jump seat rider is always at the Skipper's discretion.

Read the latest Aviation Security Memo (ASM) - any MOCO has one, all tech crew should - it's all spelt out there.

27th Jul 2005, 12:53
Its been like that in Europe for a couple of years now. Even staff cant ride on jump seatHas been this way in most of the world for a few years nowStrange.... I seem to vividly recall travellingon the jump-seat with Lufthansa and also with Olympic in very recent times. IE this year. But these two wallahs say it doesn't happen ANYwhere, especially Europe...... strange.

Maybe someone was talking about something they don't know much about... Yeah that must be it!Is there any UK airline that allows Crews bonafide parteners to travel on the F/DWhat's a "partener"??

Do you mean like a girlfriend? HAHAHAHAAAA.......!!! Where do you get paperwork stating she's ya bona-fide girlfriend..... this week.....!!!!!?????

27th Jul 2005, 13:23
I think we can expect future generations of aircraft, starting with the A380 to have the pilots "hermetically sealed" inside a sealed section.
They will probably have their own toilets, crew rest areas as well as galley.

Sad to see the end of an era but recent circumstances have driven it to this.

28th Jul 2005, 11:00

Mr. Bin Laden and his helpers are probably sitting back with their feet up looking at the world since 9/11 and wetting themselves laughing. And if not they ought to be. Why?

Cause we're doing EXACTLY what they wanted us to do. We're panicking. And frantically at that. Departments like DOTARS in a sense encourage terrorists, if you think with a bit of reverse psychology.

They'll never listen though. Heaven only knows where they will lead this world of ours..it's going to get a lot worse before it gets any better, I suspect.

That said, I would like to express my thanks to the Skippers of more than a couple of Australian and Foreign Airliners who have let me in up the front during flight, for realising that despite bureacracy and red tape there still are people in this world who are simply just interested in flying.

I hope that trend will continue.


28th Jul 2005, 22:38
I dont doubt your story... Lufty surprises me. Olympic doesnt.
However many rules there are, there are still many who turn a 'blind eye' and ignore them.

The rule however, remains.

Buster Hyman
29th Jul 2005, 02:33
Maybe they should ban anyone from getting on a plane at all, without an ASIC. Passengers would need to apply for the card and go through the same "rigorous" checks. That way we can be sure!

ASIC is a mouthfull & hard for the punters to understand...why not call it the Australia Card?:ooh:

29th Jul 2005, 02:48
I suppose this really means the end of the ATC famil flight.

29th Jul 2005, 07:16
1013 - Not sure of the A380 but the A350 is looking like it will be sealed from the "masses", with a crew rest below the flight deck including all necessary facililties...i.e. no operational need to go aft...

On a separate note, I think that at some point, like everything, people (pilots?) need to say enough is enough and argue against the seemingly ever increasing restrictions on access to everything!!!

The topic of this thread says a lot and I find it incredibly sad that even kids cannot visit the flight deck anymore...what a stupid and ironic state of affairs we now find ourselves in...the aviation community needs to take a similar line to the Government and simply say that terrorists are not going to change the way we do things!

Bring back the old days, but with current worldwide understanding and some common sense!!

29th Jul 2005, 22:55

I suppose this really means the end of the ATC famil flight.

At the moment it certainly looks that way - this issue was raised within at least one major operator when developing a policy that complies with the new act/regs etc.

there is no provision for non airline staff other than the regulator on duty

obviously the act / regs have been written in a rush and without consultation

the court cases that will follow - because of the inability to comply will perhaps drive some change

it is up to ASA and Coco to lobby to have controllers included in any amendment etc - and of course controllers are part of the team and must be permitted to conduct observation/famil flights


The Messiah
30th Jul 2005, 05:11

I said most of the world and if you ever get out and about you'll see it is true.

31st Jul 2005, 08:05
What happens in America these days with the jump seat travel arrangements?? It used to be that any airline pilot could live anywhere in the country and commute to work flying in the jump seat of any carrier as long as he was in uniform and carried the appropiate ID etc. Has that now ended??

31st Jul 2005, 13:16
Couldn't have said it any better :ok:
And with all the carry on in the UK too.
Well if you keep mouthing off at the louts eventually they come along and slash your tyres when you're not looking.
And all the while we keep telling these louts what we're doing to stop them- talk about telegraphing your punches!!
Oh well I suppose the pollies have to be seen to be doing something

1st Aug 2005, 10:25
Does this mean no more flights for me in the jump seat (brother is FO)??:{ :{

Captain Can't
1st Aug 2005, 12:21
yep octane,
and MY MOTHER and/or FATHER and WIFE!! it's not that we don't trust you guys, but... it's just to expensive to screen everybody, so we'll make big steps forward - and take the publicity - to make you less of a threat - to bone up a landing under pressure from your old man watching??? !! :rolleyes: :yuk:

1st Aug 2005, 13:56
Sister and kids were off to disneyland, I asked the techies if they could visit the cockpit. Skipper invited them up around Fiji, told the kids that he needed them to walk to the other side of the cockpit as they turned over a waypoint, kids thought for about 5 years after that to turn the acft you had to move around the cockpit!

That's Gold!

The turd beauracrats are worse than the terrorists.

3rd Aug 2005, 05:39
I agree 100% with En-Rooter's response. I STILL hold fond memories from childhood of a lucky visit the the cockpit, seeing two scruffs sitting up there surrounded by the magic dials! It blows childrens' minds and instills aspiration (thats a good thing right?)!

It should be the jobs and pay of beauracrats on the chopping boards if you ask me, who the hell needs them (to the current extent). There is probably some d*ck(s) earning $40k a year to scribe out these useless, nonsense and garabage policies in Canberra.

I am only new to aviation and slowly coming to the realisation of the presence of these kn*bs, and just how counter-productive they are. :suspect:

3rd Aug 2005, 11:03
what it really stands for is


The lovely DOTaRS.


Lurk R
3rd Aug 2005, 14:37
I agree that it's a shame that these rides will be end of an era but I guess posters need to look at the wider picture. A lot of the reasoning extends past the possibility of a threat entering the cockpit - e.g. someone said they trust their wife more than some unknown ASIC holder. It's more a case that passengers (who we know from assorted news quotes know virtually nothing about aviation) have no idea whether the person wandering into the cockpit wearing civvies is the FO brother-in-law or this weeks bomb carrying nutter. My understanding is that this is more of the issue now...

4th Aug 2005, 12:52
Lurk R,

Don't think so mate, when I've ridden up front, always boarded with the crew well before the pax.


Southern handler
5th Aug 2005, 00:59
ive flown jump seat a lot on QFlink and a bit on QF dom normally boarded towards the end of boarding, not the correct ruling but thats the way things happen

5th Aug 2005, 01:12
Cockpit tours are mandatory in cabin class aircraft.:p