Navajo wheels up.

[AerocatS2A]

Whoever it was puting the Chieften (?) down with the gear up today, that looked like a job well done! Smooth, safe touchdown; minimal, if any, damage to props and engine.

[Capn Bloggs]

Ar yes, but did they KNOW they were not down...

[Chris Higgins]

The last guy I knew that did that now flies for QF!! It happened a few weeks after he didn't set the parking brake on his new car and it ran through his old man's garage.

[Dog One]

Any one care to enlighten us to when and where?

[Woomera]

You know you've done that when you need full power to taxi back to the hangar!

:}

[cirrus driver]

YPJT
Extension not forgotten.
The starboard gear failed to extend.
The pilot spent 40 minutes reducing fuel before landing with a lot of noise!!!

[Capt L]

I didn't think there were any Cheiftains at JT, maybe a Navajo?

[HEALY]

Tis a Navajo that does PJE ops south of JT at a place called Pinjarra.

[AerocatS2A]

Ar yes, but did they KNOW they were not down...

Yes, as stated above, he burned fuel first and then shutdown both engines in the flare. Hence, very little (quite possibly no) prop damage and no engine damage.

[Flintstone]

The question was asked before the comment was made about the gear being stuck so why would you feel the need to repeat it?

[Gyro drifter]

Gday fellas,

Just a heads up. Anyone hear about the navajo belonging to a well known skydiving company operating out of pinjarra, having a wheels up landing on Sat.

"Lucky escape
By RYAN EMERY
17jul05
TWO people walked unhurt from a light plane after it made a forced landing without wheels at Jandakot airport late yesterday afternoon.

Pilot Robin O'Neill was flying the twin-engine aircraft from Pinjara, where he had dropped skydivers, when its landing gear developed a fault.

For 40 minutes Mr O'Neill battled to lower the plane's starboard wheel, assisted by his only passenger, Vanessa Manning.

He burnt off the aircraft fuel before landing the plane safely on its belly, with minimal damage.

It was Mr O'Neill's first landing without wheels in 12 years of flying..

"It (the landing) didn't sound pretty – there was a lot of scraping," he said.

Ms Manning said she felt surprisingly calm after the landing. But as she flew over Perth she did briefly think, that it might be the last time she saw the city.

Mr O'Neill's daughter Genna, 13, her mother Jocelyn Nainby, and Genna's friend Ameera Brandis, 13, raced from Hilton to the airport, but the aircraft had landed safely. "

Source: Sunday Times

Anyone got any info on this guy. Heard that this place is one of the better meat bombing joints around???


Gyro


Gyro ... Re your second sentence - we simply are not going there!

Woomera

[AerocatS2A]

Mainly to add that the engines had been shut down, which hadn't been mentioned before in the thread.

[Desert Flower]

See the thread in D&G Reporting Points. I saw the footage of this on tonight's news & it was pretty spectacular! Props feathered, parked perfectly & looks like they didn't even touch the ground. Well done that man! :ok:

DF.

[Capt Fathom]

Was it a Navajo with 2 bladed props?

You see a lot of discussion about feathering props during a wheels-up!
If they are two bladed..and you can stop both engines, feather them, and get them horizontal...without losing control of the aeroplane, well and good.

I have been told by engineers if you have three bladed props, you will do less damage to the engine if you leave them windmilling in an un-feathered position.
Obviously if you feather a three-bladed, at least one blade will dig into the ground and either cause damage to the engine or help remove it from the mount.
I only mention this because a lot of people (during bar room discussion) seem to think that feathering them is the be-all end-all. Well it will be if you get it wrong.

So the moral of the story is..
One..Save Yourself!
Two..Save Yourself!
Three..Minimize Aircraft Damage!

PS
Yes I've done it.

[greybeard]

Local news showed one blade of one prop with a little worn off the end, visible touch in the clip on touchdown.

????? from an old school who hasn't flown props for 20 years, seem to recal feathering was not the so called best option as the possibility of not getting the props in the correct position.
Could cause the prop to remove the engine, or distract the pilot trying to align them and stuff the landing???

No shot at the pilot of this one, just an honest proceedural question.

Looked good fun actually, and only the usual gravel rash.

:confused: :ok:

[flopter]

Here's The Landing (http://www.p2p-zone.com/landing/Wheels_Up_PJT.wmv) (Right click then select "Save Target As")

Taken from CH10 TV tonight.

Enjoy :ok:

[Gyro drifter]

Ah cheers for the link flopter.

Saw this plane up close a couple weeks back. Very nice plane.

Turbocharged with 310hp each side. Very sad to see this happen to such an effiecient machine.

No doubt itll be back down at the drop zone asap with a full load of skydivers.

Wonder how you would get those 2 props feather in such a position to have the greatest dist between ground and closest prop like Rob did??? I mean your mind is going overdrive and you wouldnt have much time after you bring back the mix to fiddle with the props psoition.

I dont think you could of done any better in this situation.

Gyro

[Lasiorhinus]

I guess it shouldnt surprise me that CH 10 were talking of passengers "fearing for their lives", the pilot "miraculously" averting "tragedy" and so forth...

[jandakotpilot]

I have seen the Navajo, its in very good condition, minor surface skin damage to the belly and a lost ADF antenna.
The props were vertical when it hit the rwy and the navajo's engines sit quite high, so as a result there is a VERY minor scratch on the props, he probably got away without a bulkstrip but he will need 2 props.
A very good job indeed.

[Going Nowhere]

Judging by the 'EA' on the tail, the plane used to reside at Toowoomba with Eastland Air a few years back?

[The Messiah]

I believe any contact by the props requires a bulk strip no question about it.

[Time Bomb Ted]

I was told by the head of a large insurance company a few years back at an instructors conference that,"Once there is a problem with your aircraft, it belongs to the insurance company. So save yourself above all else. Let me worry about the bulk strip."

I have always abided by that. Why shut down a perfectly good engine to save some money when I could cost you your life?

TBT

[gaunty]

Time Bomb Ted :ok:

[Travelair]

Gyro, PM me if you really believe what you hear... Ive got a lot of info!

An about the article, how did he "battle", trying to find the POH and read it for the first time?!!

Oh, PJE ops...:{

[Jamair]

The Aztec (with its three extension systems - engine driven hydraulic, hand pump and blow-down) manual says if you can't extend the gear, position for a gear-up and when assured of reaching the strip, shut the engines down and move the props out of the way with the starters. Feathering will present the narrow cross section to the ground and result in much more force being transmitted to the engine / mounts / wing, compared to the easily bent flat section.

The Nav and Twin Catastrophe manual says the same, but the Chieftain doesn't mention it; nor does the 55 Baron.

From recent experience, insurance won't give you new motors and props either, only pro-rata on what hours were left when you dinged it.

[Gyro drifter]

Travelair,

Did you get my pm?

It doesnt come up in the sent box atm.. ive sent 2 now.

Gyro

[gaunty]

Jamair me old, I'd be fascinated to here about the "recent experience":}

[prospector]

Gaunty,

Glasshouses?? 'hear' or 'here'.

Prospector

[gaunty]

prospector surely you must have something better to do with your time you've certainly nothing to add here.:rolleyes:

In case you didn't notice this is the 21st Century.
Those manuals were written in the sixties and with the liabilities the way they are now such "advice" would not be tolerated, in any event there is noone left out of those companies that are worth suing.

[Triple Captain]

PA31 book suggests feathering.

[Woomera]

Navajos and Chieftains seem have a wheels up habit of late??

:yuk:

[Desert Flower]

They do indeed! Another one's just gone in gear up at YPAG.

DF.

[bushy]

Gear problems are caused by humans. There is a serious, nation wide shortage of engineering people and facilities. That is the reason.

[Centaurus]

You have to be careful about feathering the props before touch down. If feathered, bits can dig in and snap off and hit someone. Some years ago in Tonga, an Aztec landed wheels up with props feathered. Unfortunately one of the props dug into the grass airfiled and the aircraft turned up side down and the pilot did not survive. I guess it depends on aircraft type and strip surface. For instance if ditching, would it be safer to feather the props so that there is minimum frontal resistance to water? And does it matter, anyway?

[Master Red Cylinder]

My experience is that navajos have one of the more reliable and sturdy gears in GA. But input of good workmanship, and obviously money is required, obviously.

This operators (not saying is the cause) due to pje ops cycles the gear every 0.5 hrs of flight, lands on a dirt strip every time, and preventive maintenance may not be the best. Gears go bad for many reasons, could have been a bad casting made 20 years ago...who knows, hopefully a good investigation can show the real cause. But in general I believe they respond how you treat them. Just glad no one was hurt. Must say his landing was a very good one.

I recall the POH does call for feathering, but I too take it with some salt.

Travelair, I know what you mean.

MRC

[Gyro drifter]

Hey Guys,

Got it from good source it was a problem with the actuator.

Seems it just stuck and wasnt able to extend or retract (wateva the navajo goes).

Gyro

[Master Red Cylinder]

Any more specific, what with the actuator?

MRC