ejection in 1969

[jimgriff]

As some of you may know I am a bit of an ejection seat nut. I'm the webmaster for www.ejectorseats.co.uk

Im trying to find out about a certain date that stands out from the rest.

Can anyone explain what happened on 22nd November 1969 to warrant 11 ejections in one day?

I have done quite a bit of searching, but so far have come up with no clues.

It might be connected with vietnam, but even foir that it seems a tad excessive and I'm only talking about Martin Baker seats.

Any help would be appreciated.

[henry crun]

My Broken Wings book does not show any RAF ejections on that date.

Assuming this is correct it eliminates one airforce.

[jimgriff]

Ive got a stack of ejection reports but they are all pre '69.

I would gladly archive any similar documents for anyone should they wish to part with the same!!:8

[PPRuNe Radar]

If you can get your hands on this book, you might find some detail on losses that day in Vietnam

Vietnam Air Losses: United States Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps Fixed-Wing Aircraft Losses in Southeast Asia 1961-1973 by Chris Hobson.

Looking at other sites on the web, the USS Constellation lost an F4J that day with 2 crew ejecting (one recovered, one made a POW) but don't know what seats they used. USS Ranger lost 2 x A6, with one pilot ejecting successfully, but alas the other pilot and two Bombardier/Navs were not confirmed as ejecting and are MIA.

Maybe only another 8 'seats' to find ??

[BANANASBANANAS]

I left the RAF in '92 but vaguely remember hearing a true story about some training aircraft being lost in that number in one day. Vampires or Meteors I think. Something to do with the weather unexpectedly closing in over the base airfield + all available alternates so when the engines went quiet, the crews pointed their steeds at the North Sea and ejected.

Could that be it?

[Wholigan]

Bananas, I think that the event you're possibly thinking of involved Hunters out of West Raynham and it was in the early 60s,

[BANANASBANANAS]

Thanks for the memory jog. Yes, you are quite right. Old age and alcohol is definitely getting to me!

[normally right blank]

From "Air Clues": "The day we lost 6 Hunters in 8 minutes".

Presently doing "insulation duties" at my loft is a set of "Air Clues", that was otherwise being thrown out. I'll get back shortly when I find the issue.

Recovering from sunburns at Fairford yesterday. The Typhoon display was fine - nowhere near disaster as at Friday.

Best regards

[Chris Kebab]

Jim - I guess you are referring to the appendix in the MB biography? Having got a free tie off the company myself I felt duty bound to buy the book! The appendix is quite comprehensive - spent quite while going through it playing "spot the mate"!

What I found more intriguing than your 11 on the 22 Nov 1969 is the 42 (yes 42!) listed with no aircraft type as "Classified" on 1 Jan 1973 - what is that all about then?

Also couldn't help but notice the number of F-4s with only one named survivor next to it - this may also help lower your figure. The book lists 11 names on 22 Nov 69, with seven being F-4, two as Intruder, 1 as Crusader and 1 as Mystere, so that, I reckon, makes a max of 6 US jets which is probably reasonable with Viet Nam on (the seventh is FAF).

For everyone else out there the book is "Sir James Martin" by Sarah Sharman (ISBN 1 85260 551 0) a nice addition to the bookshelf, especially for anyone who has used one of his seats.

[BossEyed]

...42 (yes 42!) listed with no aircraft type as "Classified" on 1 Jan 1973 - what is that all about then?

I assumed Israeli, and I further assumed that 1 Jan wasn't an accurate date but represented all of 1973, which of course included the Yom Kippur War. Training losses would also have been included, I guess.

[Onan the Clumsy]

Bananas, I think that the event you're possibly thinking of involved Hunters out of West Raynham and it was in the early 60s, Wasn't that covered in MIL just a few months ago? In the Meteor thread I think.

[PPRuNe Radar]

jimgriff

Just been sent details of this site which seems to have a pretty comprehensive set of records :ok:

Ejection History (http://www.ejection-history.org.uk)

They list the following for 22 Nov 1969 (all used Martin Baker seats)


1. Lt. Paige USAF F-4 Phantom
2. Capt. C. Williarns USAF F-4 Phantom
3. Lt.JG H. J. Bedinger USN F-4 Phantom
4. Capt. L. Wright USAF F-4 Phantom
5. LTC.Bove Fr AF Mystere
6. Cdr. Richard USN Intruder
7. Lt.JG Deuter USN Intruder
8. Lt. Cdr. J. S. Hellman USN F-8 Crusader
9. Lt. W. Wilkening USMC F-4 Phantom
10. Lt. H. C. Wheeler USN F-4 Phantom
11. Capt. I. Harrison USAF F-4 Phantom

[southside]

wow - 7 ejections from F-4's on one day. Can you imagine the accident investigators trying to cope with that lot...???

[Archimedes]

Southside - Given that date, not all of the F-4 losses were accidents...

I don't know if this is of any interest to ppruners, but just to add something (colour? depth?) to the list...

The chap listed as number 3 user of an MB seat that day is covered in a little more detail
here (http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/b/b133.htm).

Entry no. 6 (Cdr Richards) was recovered, but his BN - Lt JG Deuter - was not , and you can read some more about him here (http://www.virtualwall.org/dd/DeuterRC01a.htm), where there's also some info about ejectee number 10 (Lt Wheeler).

[PPRuNe Radar]

Some more on No7 LtJG Deuter - there seems no evidence one way or another as to whether he actually ejected or not, just that he was, and remains, MIA.

''LTJG Richard C. Deuter was a Bombardier/Navigator (BN) assigned to Attack Squadron 196 onboard the aircraft carrier USS RANGER. On November 22, 1969, he launched with his pilot, Commander Richards, in their A6A Intruder aircraft on a bombing mission into Laos. The assigned mission was visual dive-bombing under the control of an airborne Forward Air Controller (FAC).

Once in the target area, the FAC assigned a target and the aircraft was rolled into a normal dive-bombing attack. At some point in the dive, probably just before bomb release, the aircraft became completely uncontrollable and began to disintegrate.

Commander Richards ordered LTJG Deuter to eject, then ejected himself. The aircraft continued to disintegrate and crashed into the ground. Only the pilot's parachute was seen by search and rescue aircraft.

Commander Richard's emergency radio helped in pinpointing his location and he was rescued by helicopter approximately 30 minutes after landing. Search efforts failed to turn up anything on Deuter.

It is believed that the aircraft was hit by anti-aircraft fire in its dive and suffered a structural failure which led to its loss. With all facts considered, it is impossible to state conclusively whether or not Deuter successfully ejected from the aircraft. He was classified Missing in Action.''

[Archimedes]

Pprune Radar,

Concur - by coincidence, I've been asked to review a new book on the A-6. And within the last 30 minutes, I've just read the page which says that no-one's quite certain what happened with regard to Dick Deuter, and that ejection may not have occurred...

(Although to complicate matters, the book suggests that the incident was on 20 November.)

[jimgriff]

Chris Kebab....
Care to e mail me with your ejection story for my web site?

Anyone else who has used an ejection seat or has a story to tell please do same.

[Time Bandit]

Dick Deuter MIA. Held in a bamboo cage in a Steaming Jungle somewhere at the mercy of international communism no doubt. Get Rambo in there my son.

[normally right blank]

Close? The only RDAF ejection in 1969. 7'th Oct. 1969.
F-104G, 62-12346, "R-346", first Danish F-104 lost. At all costs Denmark would avoid the German "experience" - whether "that" was true or false? All pilots were initially very jet experienced and typically Hunter day fighter trained. Denmark installed Martin Baker seats. Germany followed suit.
In a station excercise ("Kronhjort" = "Deer") at Tirstrup AS (EKAH), two deployed F-104's from Aalborg (723 Sqn), Horntail 17 & Horntail 23, were at 5 min's "runway end alert" with stopped engines. They were scrambled by GCI-station "Clipper" (Just N. of Skrydstrup AS) ("Close control 180 degrees") and after a "snake climb" intercepted a T-33 target at FL260 and forced him to land at Tirstrup. 22 NM SE at 6.000´ radio contact was established with "Tirstrup TWR" (!). RWY 28, W/V 190/08, vis. 2.500 m. in haze, 1/8 800´, 5/8 10.000´. "Expect GCA". GCA shortly after got "radarcontact" and a frequency change followed. HT17 flew a GCA with the T-bird on the wing and HT25 shadowing. At 3.000´and 10 NM, HT25 announced: "And 25 is following 17 all the way down". HT17 and GCA acknowledged. The GCA continued and HT17 later confirmed he had the RWY in sight at apprx. 800 m. and 300´. As they were slightly displaced left of centerline he initiated a "go around". During this HT25 hit the ground just outside EKAH's' perimeter North of the Eastern THR. FL-1 (Flight Lieutenant 1) P. A. Christensen ("PER") ejected but perished in the flames of the wrecked F-104.
Manouevering at too low speed, causing loss of control, was "probable cause".

And what is Your point exactly "Time Bandit"? :confused: